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Clubber Lang
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Bismarck)
Yeah, because destroying the US economy isn't going to affect the poor. :rolleyes: Obama is just like Bush: spend and spend while refusing to take the unpopular step of increasing taxes. At some point, this will cause the dollar to collapse (hell it already fell by 30%).
how owudl the things you list destroy the US enconomy?
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Jim-ie
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#22
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#22
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
With the rise of the Royalist(hiss!) and Republican societies I figured I'd suggest us Obama haters jump on the band wagon and create our own society, the "Anti-Obama Society", where we can happily say we hate Obamunism and all associated Socialism/Communism, and we will NOT jump on the band wagon!

Who's with me?
mccarthy would be rolling in his grave knowing a commie is getting into office.
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Motassa
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#23
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#23
There is a perilous misconception dominant here: The notion that blacks are still "less equal" (there's no such thing) than women in general. Bullcrap!

Yes, Obama is the lawyer, who sucked loads of capital out of everybody's (internet fund-raising) pockets so he could advance his campaing. NOthing wrong with that, it just shows that there are politicians who understnad the world around them, or at least try to. But the big but is: Can he lead? While in office, there is little time to learn. And most politicians don't give a crap about law and justice, so his education won't help him.

That leaves only his character and aura intact to be used as the propellant for proper statesmanship.

This is where I leave the discussion and state my opinion: No, he doesn't have _enough_. Hillary has more, as experience is what makes that grow.


I am sure Obama will be "teh pres1d3n7!!!111" and a good one at that. The difference to pre-Oabama politics will be, that he is going to rely on a lot bigger network of cultists than anyone before him.
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tis_me_lord
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Bismarck)
Communist, no. Highly irresponsible social democrat, definitely. And no, he doesn't want to end capitalism, just to destroy the US economy (and by extension the global economy).
He WANTS to destroy the economy? Jesus Christ, I'm sure that doesn't go down too well! I have to agree, that is a rather strange stance.

Unless, of course, like old PeeWee has just admitted to doing - you're scare-mongering!

Dunno, I'm no expert on American economics. But is your private health care not failing? Is the dollar not down? Is a republican not in power? Getting the state a bit more onvilved doesn't necessarily destroy an economy - last I heard the pound was beating the dollar, and we have increased taxes and public spending.

Not to mention global warming, what is the US economy going to be like when greenhouse gases continue to be pumped out, and western America faces serious drought and harvest failure, and hence can't sustain its own food, so billions will need to spend billions on imports of food?

Maybe you dudes are in denial about global warming, though.
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davidjones90
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Bismarck)
Um, it can get much worse. If he actually follows through and increases spending by $500 billion without increasing taxes by a similar amount, then we'll have massive inflation and unemployment, which will spread to the rest of the world in case you're wondering. I really don't see how you can call McCain the next Bush when Obama is the one promising to continue Bush's ridiculous economic policies.
If you know ANYTHING either candidate tax policy, you'd know it Obama tax policy would raise $700bn over the next 10 years.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...e+with+readers
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stacey4415
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#26
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#26
I'm in!!!
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tis_me_lord
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Bismarck)
It's far from a perfect system, but that hardly justifies ruining the economy over. The dollar is down precisely due to the same policies Obama wants to implement: loads of spending without increases in taxes. The current increase was responsible to one party controlling Congress and the Presidency; it really doesn't matter which party it is. The Democrats will control Congress in 2008; if Obama gets elected, the Democrats will do the exact same thing the Republicans did regarding fiscal policy (they'll just waste the money in other areas).

What about global warming? You do realize that McCain has called for action against it long before Obama, right? And your point about food in America is ridiculous. America is by far the biggest exporter of food in the world, and this is happening while the US government pays some farmers not to grow anything. Half of American land could become desert tomorrow, and America will still have a surplus of food.
Obama doesn't want to increase taxes? Surely that doesn't make any sense? Are you SURE he doesn't and this isn't just what republicans are saying, because surely nobody is stupid enough to increase spending but not increase taxes - even I know this! :eek:

I didn't deny America is a big exporter of food, my point entirely is that half of America WILL turn into desert with just one more degree of global warming - so you better hope what you say about still having surplus is correct. It's not really a "ridicilous" statement, it's fair enough to mention because it's kind of a big deal, don't you think? You might want to ligten up a bit man, just because I'm more left-wing than you doesn't mean you can't show any respect.

As for McCain doing more about global warming (for a republican I do like McCain a lot btw) - from what I have seen about their green policies from the BBC news, Obama wants to reduce emissions more than McCain did. Maybe under the republicans the state doesn't need to stick its nose in much (in theory this is a good thing!) However, it also gives a lot of power to industry and it's going to be hard for McCain to control what they do...
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Afro Samurai
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#28
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#28
Obama will be nothing more than a symbolic president.

What he is proposing is just not compatible with the USA, where the centre ground is so firmly to the right.

I despise left wing politics (and yes I'm talking about you modern liberals too) and right wing politics in equal measure.

However an American president can't be a liberal, it's just not in the blood of US politics and culture.

Maybe he'd be a succcess over here, and that's why the media and everyone else bums him. Liberals here (who are too afraid to call themselves social democrats/socialists) and in Europe need to understand that just because Obama's firmly to the left it won't stop him from waging war on Iran and seeking aggressive expansionist foreign policy.

I'm anti-US, so I'm anti-McCain and anti-Obama.
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PeeWeeDan
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#29
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#29
Obama to me if the next Jimmy Carter, and he was a disaster.
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davidjones90
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Bismarck)
Genius, that's over 10 years, which comes out to $70 billion a year. Coincidentally, that doesn't include his tax decreases, which are projected to reduce revenue by $270 billion a year, according to your own article. Meanwhile, he wants to increase spending by over $500 billion. :rolleyes:
Using that assumption as a baseline, the Tax Policy Center looked at the impact of all the changes in tax law that each of the candidates has proposed. If McCain's proposed tax changes were put into effect, the Treasury would lose $3.7 trillion in revenue for the 10-year period between 2009 and 2018, compared with what it would take in under current law. If all of Barack Obama's tax plans were put into effect, the loss to the Treasury would be $2.7 trillion in revenues

Go figure that's a $1 trillion gap. Even if Obama spends $500bn which McCain will need to spend a similar amount with his crazy "Gas Tax Holidays" and what-not, Obama tax policy is far superior to John McCain.

Naturally those who loose out are the Wealthy and the Healthy. You don't care though.
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davidjones90
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Bismarck)
Erm, read the article above. He wants to increase the taxes on the rich while reducing them on everyone else. The end result is a $270 billion decrease in revenues each year.

Obama is all talk. I'm sure he wants to make the world a perfect place; he just has no idea how to do it. And his existing policies WILL destroy the American economy. There's simply no way that you can cut taxes by $270 billion a year while increasing spending by $500 billion a year without causing an economic collapse.

And please do provide a link that shows that America will be a net importer of food in the foreseeable future.
And McCain would cut taxes by $370bn a Year.
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Peanut42
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Bismarck)
What about global warming? You do realize that McCain has called for action against it long before Obama, right? And your point about food in America is ridiculous. America is by far the biggest exporter of food in the world, and this is happening while the US government pays some farmers not to grow anything. Half of American land could become desert tomorrow, and America will still have a surplus of food.
You do realise McCain won't actually do anything about it right? You say that Obama is 'all talk' yet McCain managed to avoid voting on any environmental bills in 2007.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/0...hen-it-counts/

Oh yeah, he's a big environmentalist.
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medione
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#33
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#33
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
With the rise of the Royalist(hiss!) and Republican societies I figured I'd suggest us Obama haters jump on the band wagon and create our own society, the "Anti-Obama Society", where we can happily say we hate Obamunism and all associated Socialism/Communism, and we will NOT jump on the band wagon!

Who's with me?
Why are you anti-obama?
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PeeWeeDan
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#34
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#34
I don't think anyone on here cares about environmental policy. Frankly we're more concerned with the American economy, it's keeping us up and paying our pay cheques after all - no matter where we live.

Why are you anti-obama?
He's a socialist, I'm anti-Socialism, to be very concise.
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tis_me_lord
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Bismarck)
And please do provide a link that shows that America will be a net importer of food in the foreseeable future.
I've been reading about this in a book, not on the internet, so I can't.

The books called six degrees though - and it depends on what you classify as "foreseeable" because I don't mean in the reign on Obama/McCain, it'd be in a couple of decades yet, however action does need to be taken sooner rather than later!

As long as your surplus is great maybe you wont need to import, however you wont be able to export anywhere near the amount you can these days when this all happens - which will damage the economy.

Why does Obama wanna decrease taxes on the non-rich? Surely if he just didn't do that, his polices would be fine? :confused:
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davidjones90
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Bismarck)
Can you not count at all? McCain is against spending increases, so spending under him isn't going to increase in inflation-adjusted terms. Lowering taxes by an extra trillion over 10 years means $100 billion less revenue per year. Considering that he'll spend a good $400 billion less, that will more than make up for it. And the gas tax holiday is a gimmick. It would cost a few billion dollars.
McCain $3.7tn
Obama $2.7tn

Obama spends 500bn

Net:
McCain 3.7$tn
Obama 3.2$tn

US is better of by 500bn

And thats not even including the savings from ending the war in Iraq which is costing $700m / day
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davidjones90
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#37
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#37
(Original post by medione)
Why are you anti-obama?
He's a closet-Muslim :rolleyes:
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qgujxj39
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#38
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#38
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
With the rise of the Royalist(hiss!) and Republican societies I figured I'd suggest us Obama haters jump on the band wagon and create our own society, the "Anti-Obama Society", where we can happily say we hate Obamunism and all associated Socialism/Communism, and we will NOT jump on the band wagon!

Who's with me?
You racist *******!

[/joke]
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PeeWeeDan
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#39
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#39
:p:
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Peanut42
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#40
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#40
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
I don't think anyone on here cares about environmental policy. Frankly we're more concerned with the American economy, it's keeping us up and paying our pay cheques after all - no matter where we live.
When you say on here, do you mean TSR or this thread? Personally I can't stand people who don't care about environmental policy, so long as their taxes don't go up. Well at least that way you'll be able to afford to live underwater when the ice caps melt. :rolleyes:
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