gyrase
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Are Doctors regarded as being scientists?

I dont think so, as at medical school, the first few years of pre-clinicals are in such a way as to exhaust the enthusiastic students and transform the creative students to a concrete brick. As such, once the student is exposed to a clinical environment, they have been brain-washed as to not question any medical procedures and to not talk about any ethical concerns regarding any decisions.

A GP has the proffesion which consists of assesing a patient, thinking of the most common diagnosis related to symptoms (may I darent say this can lead to problems later on if he makes the wrong diagnosis), checking the BNF/computer for best antibiotics/treatments and prescribing those. Otherwise he requires to examine patients and make diagnosis. What a boring proffesion, nothing science related at all, except for maybe making a diagnosis.

Surgeons are concentrated on one specific field, the surgeries they do are second nature to them, hence require little thinking. Only thing they have to worry about is risks associated with surgeries.

So I think Doctors are not scientists, any comments post.
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34253
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(Original post by gyrase)
Are Doctors regarded as being scientists?

I dont think so, as at medical school, the first few years of pre-clinicals are in such a way as to exhaust the enthusiastic students and transform the creative students to a concrete brick. As such, once the student is exposed to a clinical environment, they have been brain-washed as to not question any medical procedures and to not talk about any ethical concerns regarding any decisions.

A GP has the proffesion which consists of assesing a patient, thinking of the most common diagnosis related to symptoms (may I darent say this can lead to problems later on if he makes the wrong diagnosis), checking the BNF/computer for best antibiotics/treatments and prescribing those. Otherwise he requires to examine patients and make diagnosis. What a boring proffesion, nothing science related at all, except for maybe making a diagnosis.

Surgeons are concentrated on one specific field, the surgeries they do are second nature to them, hence require little thinking. Only thing they have to worry about is risks associated with surgeries.

So I think Doctors are not scientists, any comments post.
Well they don't generally just treat on their first hunch, this isn't House MD you know. They look at the symptoms, if it's a blatant disease they treat, if it's not they send you for tests etc. The doctors I work for also develop new surgical methods, but don't get any say in what drugs they have available for treatment at all, that's down largely to chemists and biomed students.
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Cerulean
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(Original post by Elipsis)
Well they don't generally just treat on their first hunch, this isn't House MD you know. .
hahahahahahahahahah
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gyrase
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(Original post by Elipsis)
Well they don't generally just treat on their first hunch, this isn't House MD you know. They look at the symptoms, if it's a blatant disease they treat, if it's not they send you for tests etc. The doctors I work for also develop new surgical methods, but don't get any say in what drugs they have available for treatment at all, that's down largely to chemists and biomed students.
lol I know it isnt house

But my point still stands and you actually corroborate my point .. Doctors are not scientists. When they send you out for tests, they take the easy option, sometimes the diagnosis can be made by assessing the patient, but instead the Doctors rely on expensive tests. Either the Doctor is trying to save his own time by reffering you (hence costing the NHS for performing unnecessery tests) or he's lazy.

I am talking about NHS btw.
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34253
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(Original post by gyrase)
lol I know it isnt house

But my point still stands and you actually corroborate my point .. Doctors are not scientists. When they send you out for tests, they take the easy option, sometimes the diagnosis can be made by assessing the patient, but instead the Doctors rely on expensive tests. Either the Doctor is trying to save his own time by reffering you (hence costing the NHS for performing unnecessery tests) or he's lazy.

I am talking about NHS btw.
They aren't sending for tests because they're lazy, when you present with chest pains there's a million different things it could be, the first course of action would be to do an ECG which are basically free, then if that didn't help you diagnose you'd have to MRI/CT. They aren't doing these tests for fun. I don't think drs profess to be scientists either, but they certainly do develop new techniques and treatments by thinking outside the box.
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-Kav-
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More's the point, would you want your doctors to be scientists? Most of science is dicking around with your object of study to see what happens and, though you might make certain predictions about the result, you can't be sure. If you were sure, there wouldn't be any point in doing it. Frankly, I can do without my doctors dicking around with me. :p:
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Tyraell
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(Original post by gyrase)
lol I know it isnt house

But my point still stands and you actually corroborate my point .. Doctors are not scientists. When they send you out for tests, they take the easy option, sometimes the diagnosis can be made by assessing the patient, but instead the Doctors rely on expensive tests. Either the Doctor is trying to save his own time by reffering you (hence costing the NHS for performing unnecessery tests) or he's lazy.

I am talking about NHS btw.
Doctors in the UK are far more likely to diagnose by examination rather than expensive tests than most comparable countries. Hence why we spend less in comparison to many others... At least, that was the case in the 90's.

And, your view of medicine is very one sided. Doctor's aren't meant to be scientists, they're meant to be applying the sciences. Things are always less clear-cut and fancy when you put them in to practice.

Or not... I'll let you know after six years of med. school.
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kpg
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Doctors are trained to get huge amounts of information from a history (talking to the patient) and examining them. 3 years of clinical study at medical school is almost wholey geared towards this so once graduates have qualified they are able to assess new patients and treat them in the short term. Special investigations often only add a small amount to the management of a patient. Obviously there will always be cases when they provide a lot more.

Lots of Registrar and consultant surgeons take part and lead research (clinical and laboratory based) in a pure "scientific" sense and their grasp of the basic sciences and molecular physiology is very accomplished whether they think about it or not when taking out someone's gallbladder for example.

As for your first point, [1st year] clinical students are constantly encouraged to challenge their reasoning behind managements of patients, especially when it comes to investigations. The best students and doctors are ones who do this rather than always cramming a protocol of things to do in certain situations
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fatal
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(Original post by gyrase)
Are Doctors regarded as being scientists?

I dont think so, as at medical school, the first few years of pre-clinicals are in such a way as to exhaust the enthusiastic students and transform the creative students to a concrete brick. As such, once the student is exposed to a clinical environment, they have been brain-washed as to not question any medical procedures and to not talk about any ethical concerns regarding any decisions.

A GP has the proffesion which consists of assesing a patient, thinking of the most common diagnosis related to symptoms (may I darent say this can lead to problems later on if he makes the wrong diagnosis), checking the BNF/computer for best antibiotics/treatments and prescribing those. Otherwise he requires to examine patients and make diagnosis. What a boring proffesion, nothing science related at all, except for maybe making a diagnosis.

Surgeons are concentrated on one specific field, the surgeries they do are second nature to them, hence require little thinking. Only thing they have to worry about is risks associated with surgeries.

So I think Doctors are not scientists, any comments post.
Are you a scientist? Probably not, hence you don't realize the amount of scientific knowledge required to "just make a safe diagnosis", also you seem to be unaware of the science based A-levels required to gain entry into med school. Boring..? I suppose you would know.
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