Not paying parking fine Watch

IWMTom
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#21
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(Original post by Nadim Chowdhury)
My car was in the garage last week and they parked the car when they had it on a car park. I recieved a parking charge notice as a result. I had no ticket or anything like that on my windscreen.

I received a parking charge notice. This is not a council or government penalty charge notice. This is from a private company. So I'm not going to pay this fine as it's difficult and costly for them to enforce. However us there cases of them being able to take people to court over parking?

I will try to get the garage to pay for the ticket as they were the ones who made me get the ticket. If not then I'll appeal it.

I'll see if I can post pictures of it
Don't ignore it. Speak to the garage who parked your car. It's their responsibility.

(Original post by threeportdrift)
Generally the advice if you get a private parking ticket and don't intend to pay it is to be completely silent on the matter. Don't respond in any way at all. They will send increasingly aggressive letters about paying, but eventually they will give up. If you don't intend to pay, then there is no benefit at all for you to communicate with them, it will just extend the argument. They will continue to communicate with you as long as you reply.

However, you should speak to the garage about their liability. This has probably happened before if they do this regularly.
Whilst it used to be the case that you could safely ignore tickets from private parking companies, this is no longer the case. They can and have taken people to court in the past (and yes, they've won).

I'm with Sheepy - perhaps stay in your assigned area if you're not knowledgeable on the subject.
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threeportdrift
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Yes still none of you 'experts' have come up with any data about how likely this company or these private companies in general are to take things to court.
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Nadim Chowdhury
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#23
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Woah this got quite heated up. I'm not trying to cause any arguments or anything here. But anyways

I've decided to wait until Monday for the garage to be open. When they open I will let them know and show the letter. If the garage give me the money there, I'll just pay it. However this is unlikely and I'll write back saying this was not me who parked it there.

Thank you everyone for the help. It is appreciated. Owning a car has been so difficult, I've only had it 2 weeks
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IWMTom
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(Original post by threeportdrift)
Yes still none of you 'experts' have come up with any data about how likely this company or these private companies in general are to take things to court.
Where exactly do you propose we obtain our data from, genius?
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RoyalSheepy
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(Original post by threeportdrift)
And how would they have sufficient evidence against the OP if the car was with the garage at the time?

This seems to be your area of speciality, do you have any stats about how many private tickets are issued v how many are taken to court? Maybe also the equivalent PCN data? That would be very helpful to see.
(Original post by threeportdrift)
Yes still none of you 'experts' have come up with any data about how likely this company or these private companies in general are to take things to court.
All they require is a picture of the vehicle entering and leaving the land, a time stamp and where it ocurred; if this was enforced using an ANPR camera.

Next, the statistics. The statistics for how many private tickets which have been escalated to a CCJ aren't available to the public. However, this website is quite good at explaining the trend in the rise of CCJ's.

You didn't even read your own source you quoted from....

However, you should use caution when ignoring a ticket – if the firm decides to call your bluff and take you to court, you could end up paying a lot more.
oh dear...
Last edited by RoyalSheepy; 1 week ago
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by threeportdrift)
Yes still none of you 'experts' have come up with any data about how likely this company or these private companies in general are to take things to court.
The government seems to have blocked FOI enquiries on this subject so the available data is old and doesn't involve this company. The most active issuer of County Court claims brought 21,593 in 2014. A company called Elite brought 62 but I think it was a different business.
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threeportdrift
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(Original post by IWMTom)
Where exactly do you propose we obtain our data from, genius?
Now I really am confused - am I a genius or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and should stay in careers help?

A simple trawl through the internet and any experience of the real world will indicate that, while there is some risk (and you can change your mind at any time), many people successfully ignore these supposed 'fines'. The business model of these companies is that they have no legal basis on which to fine you, but they very carefully design and word their notices to suggest that they do. By doing this, they recoup payments at a level sufficient to sustain business. However, the only way they can compel payment is to take the matter to the small claims court. Other aggravating factors aside in a case, like repeated ignoring of tickets, it is simply not worth a company pursuing random cases like the OPs. Indeed, unless they are a registered company with access to DVLA files, and the OP hasn't given us those details, they can't pursue, because they can't find the address of the owner of the car.

Just search around on the net, it's very clear that these companies are highly unlikely to follow up to the extent of a court case. But in any case, as I said, the OP should take this up first with the garage.
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Realitysreflexx
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Just don't become an episode of can't pay we'll take it away.
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StriderHort
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Yeah my first port of call would be the garage, they aren't going to hand you the cash anywhere but cloudcuckoo land, but you're making them aware it's their responsibility and that it's their details you'll be passing to the parking people.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by threeportdrift)
Now I really am confused - am I a genius or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and should stay in careers help?

A simple trawl through the internet and any experience of the real world will indicate that, while there is some risk (and you can change your mind at any time), many people successfully ignore these supposed 'fines'. The business model of these companies is that they have no legal basis on which to fine you, but they very carefully design and word their notices to suggest that they do. By doing this, they recoup payments at a level sufficient to sustain business. However, the only way they can compel payment is to take the matter to the small claims court. Other aggravating factors aside in a case, like repeated ignoring of tickets, it is simply not worth a company pursuing random cases like the OPs. Indeed, unless they are a registered company with access to DVLA files, and the OP hasn't given us those details, they can't pursue, because they can't find the address of the owner of the car.

Just search around on the net, it's very clear that these companies are highly unlikely to follow up to the extent of a court case. But in any case, as I said, the OP should take this up first with the garage.
It's definitely the case that ignoring them will often succeed in making them go away. A lot of these companies trade on numbers and intimidation and even if only 20% of punters pay up, they are making a lot of money.

It's relatively no-risk not to pay, because their only method of finally collecting is via the small claims process and that has fairly low charges and when you are served with CCJ papers you have time to respond and settle the debt then, so if they do go down that route, there isn't much extra cost. The only real reason to pay up earlier than that is to stop receiving their letters, which sometimes (I know from people) go on for years. Eventually though they will in most cases give up, as unless there are loads of tickets, it simply isn't economic for them to go to court to collect what is a small claimed amount.
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Reue
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(Original post by threeportdrift)
Yes still none of you 'experts' have come up with any data about how likely this company or these private companies in general are to take things to court.
My partner was sued by a private parking company. I know it's not "how likely" but it is my personal experience that it does happen.

Ignoring has not been the advice since 2012, please stop giving out misleading advice.
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Reue
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(Original post by threeportdrift)
The business model of these companies is that they have no legal basis on which to fine you
Indeed they cannot fine you. They can however sue for breach of contract, and they win.. alot.

Have you ever been to county court? Last time I was there over 50% of the cases that day were XXX Parking LTD Vs...
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Reue
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(Original post by Nadim Chowdhury)
Woah this got quite heated up. I'm not trying to cause any arguments or anything here. But anyways

I've decided to wait until Monday for the garage to be open. When they open I will let them know and show the letter. If the garage give me the money there, I'll just pay it. However this is unlikely and I'll write back saying this was not me who parked it there.

Thank you everyone for the help. It is appreciated. Owning a car has been so difficult, I've only had it 2 weeks
This is the correct course of action, ignore the armchair lawyers who have never stepped foot in a (civil) court room before.

POFA 2012 makes the keeper liable only if the driver is not named or cannot be traced. As you are naming the driver you have no liability.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Reue)
Indeed they cannot fine you. They can however sue for breach of contract, and they win.. alot.

Have you ever been to county court? Last time I was there over 50% of the cases that day were XXX Parking LTD Vs...
A lot of those cases will be for more than one ticket.

People also often succeed even in court at challenging them.

If you feel you have no case, there is no need to go to court and no harm in just settling when you get the blue CCJ papers. There are no black marks against your credit file for ignoring them up to that point, contrary to the lurid claims they make in their threatening letters. These companies frequently misrepresent their legal powers and act in an intimidatory manner.
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Reue
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
A lot of those cases will be for more than one ticket.

People also often succeed even in court at challenging them.

If you feel you have no case, there is no need to go to court and no harm in just settling when you get the blue CCJ papers. There are no black marks against your credit file for ignoring them up to that point, contrary to the lurid claims they make in their threatening letters. These companies frequently misrepresent their legal powers and act in an intimidatory manner.
I agree with everything you said. My point was that they can and do sue people so ignoring, as some have suggested, is terrible advice
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Reue)
I agree with everything you said. My point was that they can and do sue people so ignoring, as some have suggested, is terrible advice
You naturally should not ignore CCJ papers. But anything short of that in the case of a single ticket, a great many people simply ignore them and never get to the CCJ stage, because the company's profit model doesn't stretch to taking court proceedings against such low value claims.

The ones you see on telly where high court enforcement are going round to people collecting on them are where a CCJ has been obtained and ignored and in every case on those programmes, they are multiple tickets, not a single one.
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Reue
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
You naturally should not ignore CCJ papers. But anything short of that in the case of a single ticket, a great many people simply ignore them and never get to the CCJ stage, because the company's profit model doesn't stretch to taking court proceedings against such low value claims.
My wife was sued for a single ticket, so that has not been my experience.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Reue)
My wife was sued for a single ticket, so that has not been my experience.
What was the claim on it?

I've had discussions in recent years with friends who have had these and they did nothing and have never had anything other than just the same routine threat letter arriving once a month.
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Reue
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
What was the claim on it?

I've had discussions in recent years with friends who have had these and they did nothing and have never had anything other than just the same routine threat letter arriving once a month.
The usual £100 plus made-up costs.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Reue)
The usual £100 plus made-up costs.
OK. Did she get actual CCJ papers? Another trick they use is sending out false sets of pseudo-legal looking papers.
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