Veganism - to save the world? Watch

jgupta
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#221
Report 11 years ago
#221
(Original post by marcusfox)
You can feed more people on a low meat mixed diet. Arguably less meat than is consumed now, but still not a purely vegan diet. Reason being that animal feed can be grown on land that is not of sufficient quality to grow crops on.

Marcus
Out of curiosity...why do you sign your posts?!
0
reply
marcusfox
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#222
Report 11 years ago
#222
Just something I've always done.

Marcus
0
reply
SoundDevastation
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#223
Report 11 years ago
#223
After trying my best to catch up since last night.. i would like to point out,

That the majority of the deforestation in places like the Amazon to grow soya, is providing crops to be used as animal feed, not soya food products. We forget that the process of farming animals is actually two farming processes.. rearing the animals, and growing their food to feed them with. Surely just growing food to feed ourselves would increase the efficiency of farming by a very large degree...


From what we were discussing last night.. the 'level of sacrifice' that we all personally make to 'save the world' is always going to differ between individuals. Slowly cutting down the production of meat and dairy in the west is certainly the way forward. People will back away from the idea of going veg*n, but when proposed with the idea of cutting meat consuption to 4 or 5 times a week, far more people will feel willing to make that sacrifice.

The majority of vegans are also passionate in all aspects of environmental concern. For someone like myself who recycles everything possible, refuses to buy a car, walks the 40min walk to work instead of catching the bus and even considers the environmental impact of the clothes/books/products and companies supported, then veganism is not a big deal. Its part of a way of life, that has suffered increasing criticism and ridicule, but is undeniably necessary, even as a small percentage of the population, in tackling the global crisis of climate change.


If you must, let us make the sacrifices that you dont wish to make yourself, but dont ridicule us for it.
0
reply
FiveFiveSix
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#224
Report 11 years ago
#224
(Original post by SoundDevastation)
If you must, let us make the sacrifices that you dont wish to make yourself, but dont ridicule us for it.
Oh puhhhhlease... Is it lonely up there on your soap box, my sanctimonious friend?

I'll ridicule what I damn well like, I'm English - it's my prerogative. You probably find it funny that I wear a uniform, but you don't find me asking you not to ridicule the sacrifices people in my job make to ensure you have the freedom of choice to eat whatever you please and spout off about it.

Besides, if you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined!

You go on and eat your soya/veggie stuff, just don't expect me to stand next to you when you break wind.

Meat is murder. Hot, greasy, tasty murder...
0
reply
SoundDevastation
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#225
Report 11 years ago
#225
oh well.. :rolleyes:
0
reply
ch0c0h01ic
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#226
Report 11 years ago
#226
(Original post by jgupta)
Out of curiosity...why do you sign your posts?!
He's been negged for it in the past
0
reply
jgupta
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#227
Report 11 years ago
#227
(Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
He's been negged for it in the past
lol...yet he soldiers on with it
0
reply
Dill
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#228
Report 11 years ago
#228
(Original post by marcusfox)
And when we all become vegan, where will that soya come from then?
Marcus
Deforestation will still happen if we all have to eat soya, of course, but less than is happening now. The soya grown in Brazil to feed livestock can be passed straight onto us, there is no need for it to be fed to livestock, and then that livestock being fed to us. So, basically, if we say the current amount of soya produced to feed livestock can be used to feed humans instead, then there doesn't need to be the deforestation for cattle ranches (which is a HUGE chunk).
0
reply
cynthiahxp
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#229
Report 11 years ago
#229
(Original post by SoundDevastation)
After trying my best to catch up since last night.. i would like to point out,

That the majority of the deforestation in places like the Amazon to grow soya, is providing crops to be used as animal feed, not soya food products. We forget that the process of farming animals is actually two farming processes.. rearing the animals, and growing their food to feed them with. Surely just growing food to feed ourselves would increase the efficiency of farming by a very large degree...


From what we were discussing last night.. the 'level of sacrifice' that we all personally make to 'save the world' is always going to differ between individuals. Slowly cutting down the production of meat and dairy in the west is certainly the way forward. People will back away from the idea of going veg*n, but when proposed with the idea of cutting meat consuption to 4 or 5 times a week, far more people will feel willing to make that sacrifice.

The majority of vegans are also passionate in all aspects of environmental concern. For someone like myself who recycles everything possible, refuses to buy a car, walks the 40min walk to work instead of catching the bus and even considers the environmental impact of the clothes/books/products and companies supported, then veganism is not a big deal. Its part of a way of life, that has suffered increasing criticism and ridicule, but is undeniably necessary, even as a small percentage of the population, in tackling the global crisis of climate change.


If you must, let us make the sacrifices that you dont wish to make yourself, but dont ridicule us for it.
Well said
0
reply
Dill
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#230
Report 11 years ago
#230
(Original post by jgupta)
I just want to get the 'slavery' argument cleared up once and for all here...

The 'argument' states that eating meat is similar to slavery because we assume that just because it has been done for centuries it must be right, and compares it to slavery: something which we all accepted for many centuries, until fairly recently where we realised it was wrong...

That is not an argument. It is a fallacy. Whilst it is true that just because something has been done for centuries it is not necessarily 'right', and it is also true that slavery was seen as right until recently...without providing a basis for why eating meat is wrong, it may as well say that wearing pants, drinking water or reading books is wrong.

In itself, therefore, it does not provide any reason for not eating meat.
Except that the things you listed aren't causing a living creature unnecessary harm, that's the point of the slavery analogy.
0
reply
marcusfox
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#231
Report 11 years ago
#231
(Original post by Dill)
Except that the things you listed aren't causing a living creature unnecessary harm, that's the point of the slavery analogy.
Fruitarians would argue that you're a vegetable murderer.

Marcus
0
reply
jgupta
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#232
Report 11 years ago
#232
(Original post by Dill)
Except that the things you listed aren't causing a living creature unnecessary harm, that's the point of the slavery analogy.
Surely that's an argument for better conditions for animals rather than the mass movement to veganism?

Also, the slavery analogy is still fallacious because it is far, far to extreme and very dissimilar still from eating meat. You mention one similarity, which is still far exacerbated in slavery rather than meat eating.
0
reply
Dill
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#233
Report 11 years ago
#233
(Original post by marcusfox)
Fruitarians would argue that you're a vegetable murderer.

Marcus
Hehe that's true, but I'm unaware of any research showing vegetables can feel pain. Plus, if we couldn't eat vegetables, what could we eat?!

(Original post by jgupta)
Surely that's an argument for better conditions for animals rather than the mass movement to veganism?

Also, the slavery analogy is still fallacious because it is far, far to extreme and very dissimilar still from eating meat. You mention one similarity, which is still far exacerbated in slavery rather than meat eating.
But this would still cause the animal unnecessary suffering, since it will still have to be killed.

It's a matter of opinion whether the analogy is "far, far too extreme" or not.
0
reply
cynthiahxp
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#234
Report 11 years ago
#234
(Original post by jgupta)
Surely that's an argument for better conditions for animals rather than the mass movement to veganism?
.
They are actually the same argument...
0
reply
marcusfox
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#235
Report 11 years ago
#235
(Original post by Dill)
Hehe that's true, but I'm unaware of any research showing vegetables can feel pain. Plus, if we couldn't eat vegetables, what could we eat?!
Fruit that falls naturally from the trees. Scientists have proven plants can be stressed and they release chemicals when they are.

Their argument isn't any less valid than yours. In fact, plants take longer to die.

Marcus
0
reply
SoundDevastation
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#236
Report 11 years ago
#236
personally i think fruitarianism is the ideal, but come on.. its hardly realistic, and we dont have the means to live a healthy, balanced, fruitarian lifestyle at the moment.

You cant use the same argument for animals and plants. Animals and humans are at least both mammals.. animals and plants arent even in the same taxonomic kingdom!! The next step would be to continue the conservation of life to bacteria and viruses.. theres got to be some limit.
0
reply
Dill
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#237
Report 11 years ago
#237
(Original post by marcusfox)
Fruit that falls naturally from the trees. Scientists have proven plants can be stressed and they release chemicals when they are.

Their argument isn't any less valid than yours. In fact, plants take longer to die.

Marcus
The slavery analogy isn't my argument. I haven't said whether I agree with the analogy, but I do think it is valid.
It's true, plants may have feelings but since they have no CNS I'm not convinced. Plants respond to stimuli. For example, some release a horrible odour when a predator is nearby, but I don't think this means they can feel. I think it just means that (like nearly all species) their aim is to stay alive and reproduce.
0
reply
jgupta
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#238
Report 11 years ago
#238
(Original post by cynthiahxp)
They are actually the same argument...
no...the latter entails the former but not vice versa.
0
reply
gravityisamyth
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#239
Report 11 years ago
#239
(Original post by marcusfox)
The people who go on and on about trying to justify veganism as being a natural diet are only lying to themselves. How can any diet be natural if you have to take artificially created supplements? Not only B vitamins, but you need to be careful you're getting vitamin D, calcium, iodine, essential fatty acids.

Deficiencies wouldn't be a problem if you had a diet that included meat.

Marcus
You don't have to take artificially created supplements on a vegan diet. Some people choose to take them to make sure they are getting everything they need, but it is easy to live a vegan lifestyle without any supplements at all.

And vegans and vegetarians are actually less likely of getting deficiencies than meat eaters. I'll link to some evidence if you're really bothered.

Also, do you consider it natural to buy your meat pre-packaged from a supermarket?
0
reply
marcusfox
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#240
Report 11 years ago
#240
If you're only recently a vegan, then you may well have built up stores of nutrients from a time you previously ate meat. B12 is made only by bacteria, and not by any plant or animal, so you must take supplements or already have a sufficient reserve.

I'm not a meat eater, I'm omnivorous.

It is natural to get food from a supermarket when you live in a city. When I've lived in the countryside, we bought direct from the local farmer. Or perhaps we should be slaughtering the animals ourselves? When in zoos, the staff don't release a live deer into the lion enclosure, do they?

Marcus
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How has the start of this academic year been for you?

Loving it - gonna be a great year (110)
17.92%
It's just nice to be back! (166)
27.04%
Not great so far... (221)
35.99%
I want to drop out! (117)
19.06%

Watched Threads

View All