Veganism - to save the world? Watch

nolongerhearthemusic
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#21
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#21
What is cyanocobalamin?
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jgupta
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Sarahl89)
Sorry but that really is the most ridiculous & irrelevant analogy.
It actually isn't...I will grant you that it is far fetched but nothing is 'lost to the environment' so to speak.

My point is that what the OP mentioned are not the sole factors which we need to consider, otherwise we could just do what I said, which is clearly absurd.
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Gancor
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#23
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#23
OPs figures are GROSSLY misinformed.

the production of 1 kg wheat costs 1,300 L water
the production of 1 kg beef costs 15,000 L water

From UNESCO-IHE Institute for Water Education, and not a veganism propaganda rag.
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marcusfox
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#24
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#24
(Original post by wtid)
I';m not getting into this, but if cyanocobalamin is required to live, why am I (who has been veggie for 17 years) and many other vegetarians, still alive?
If a person has not eaten more than the daily needed amount of B12 over a long period before becoming a vegan then they may not have built up any significant store of the vitamin. In addition, a lot of foods are fortified with B12 created artificially by bacteria. According to the scientific definition, these bacteria are still animal cells, but the ethical argument provided by most vegans can be conveniently overlooked in this case.

Marcus
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username33685
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#25
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#25
i wouldn't want to live in a vegan world. no steak and blowjob day? no thanks.

but er, seriously, i think that the bigger problem is that the human population is still growing, in the non developed world at least (i think in most western countries the birth rate pretty much equals the death rate with the only population growth being immigration?) . we should tackle that problem rather than thinking of ways to accomodate it and carry on allowing it to happen.
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marcusfox
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#26
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#26
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
What is cyanocobalamin?
It is an essential vitamin.

Marcus
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#27
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#27
(Original post by marcusfox)
these bacteria are still animal cells
What? How can bacteria be animal cells?
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Drummer23
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#28
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#28
(Original post by marcusfox)
I know. However I find it difficult to rationalise such an argument because a lot of information provided by the bible is irrational. So I tend to stick to arguments proven by science, or theories with scientific evidence in support.

Marcus
Dude, if you wanna start on religion i'm right there with you. There's so much against it, and when it comes to philosophy you'll always find me quoting Hume at people (the great Scottish atheist), ill always be on the opposing side.

Have to remember that others may base their beliefs on religion, so i threw it in there.
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wtid
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#29
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#29
(Original post by marcusfox)
If a person has not eaten more than the daily needed amount of B12 over a long period before becoming a vegan then they may not have built up any significant store of the vitamin. In addition, a lot of foods are fortified with B12 created artificially by bacteria. According to the scientific definition, these bacteria are still animal cells, but the ethical argument provided by most vegans can be conveniently overlooked in this case.

Marcus
That brings up a different point though. If they were artificially created, then no animal had to die for them to be produced, which is what vegetarians are often against. The same as if science one day creates meat artificially with no animal having to die for it to be created.
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Gancor
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#30
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#30
The solution to this problem is to eat humans from countries with higher birth rates. This provides food and nutrients while also bringing the developing countries populations to a manageable level.

It's what nature would have wanted.
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#31
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#31
(Original post by rich2606)
i wouldn't want to live in a vegan world. no steak and blowjob day? no thanks.
Tofu and blowjob day? :P
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Sarahl89
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#32
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#32
(Original post by jgupta)
It actually isn't...I will grant you that it is far fetched but nothing is 'lost to the environment' so to speak.

My point is that what the OP mentioned are not the sole factors which we need to consider, otherwise we could just do what I said, which is clearly absurd.
hum right okay and where exactly are the nutrients required within the introvenus drip going to be obtained from? and who is going to provide them? I suspect that feeding 9 billion people by introvenus drip may cause something to be lost from the environment somewhere along the line.

the main factors other than what the OP mentioned are that of human greed - in more developed countries, we like eating meat, have comfortable lifestyles, and as of yet, in many people's opinions have no reason to give it up personally, as it will not be beneficial to us here. (regardless of it possibly being beneficial long term for the world as a whole).
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Sarahl89
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#33
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#33
(Original post by wtid)
That brings up a different point though. If they were artificially created, then no animal had to die for them to be produced, which is what vegetarians are often against. The same as if science one day creates meat artificially with no animal having to die for it to be created.
This is actually in development, i saw a programme about it a year or so ago, they were actually growing burgers in petri dishes.
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Veni_vidi
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#34
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#34
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
As long as they get the required nutrients they can be perfectly healthy.
i get your point
what if certain required nutrients can be found in dairy products?
displacing certain nutrients with tablets or the like is not enough sometimes,a child NEEDS milk, there might be important substances in dairy products that might have not been discovered yet which are extremely important for the body.

on the whole i understand what you mean though
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Nicolish
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Airel)
Plug us into a computer system and you have a good movie plot going.
lol!
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marcusfox
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#36
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#36
(Original post by wtid)
That brings up a different point though. If they were artificially created, then no animal had to die for them to be produced, which is what vegetarians are often against. The same as if science one day creates meat artificially with no animal having to die for it to be created.
Right, so what do you suggest in the meantime for Mr. Lion and Mr Crocodile?

Marcus
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Sarahl89
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#37
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#37
(Original post by rich2606)
i wouldn't want to live in a vegan world. no steak and blowjob day? no thanks.

but er, seriously, i think that the bigger problem is that the human population is still growing, in the non developed world at least (i think in most western countries the birth rate pretty much equals the death rate with the only population growth being immigration?) . we should tackle that problem rather than thinking of ways to accomodate it and carry on allowing it to happen.
We ARE trying to combat it. The problem isn't only food though, theres also water & space issues as the earth is reaching its carrying capacity, so even if we could produce exponential amounts of food these would be limiting factors aswell.

The reason we're trying to increase food supply is because even if/when population control policies do start working, there is still naturally going to be a period of residual growth, which of course we need to try and accomodate. Also we already have parts of the world living in poverty and need to devise ways to increase their food supply, or redistribute the current food production so that everyone has enough to live comfortably.
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username33685
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#38
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#38
doesn't the common agricultural policy mean too much food is produced in europe anyway with no where for it to go? surely something can be done there...
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Veni_vidi)
a child NEEDS milk, there might be important substances in dairy products that might have not been discovered yet which are extremely important for the body.
No, infants need milk. Vegan infants drink breast milk. Older children don't need it.

No other adult animal still drinks milk, so I would be very surprised if there was something vital in it.
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#40
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#40
(Original post by marcusfox)
As opposed to being plant cells.

Marcus
What? Bacteria are bacterial cells.
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