Veganism - to save the world? Watch

Gancor
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#81
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#81
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
Pardon?
Low muscle mass but with medium-high amounts of fat in relation to your lean body mass.
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Gancor)
Low muscle mass but with medium-high amounts of fat in relation to your lean body mass.
Um, no?
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jgupta
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Sarahl89)
I don't think its unjustified to be wary of nuclear power - the waste disposal is still quite unsafe and although the technology now is very safe and efficient, human error increases the risks of a major nuclear leak alottt. Aswell as the way the world is going nowadays, with a larger number of nuclear power stations, all it would take is one strategically placed bomb to send nuclear radiation right across the country. I wouldn't be overly happy with one opening up where i live, anyway.
I think wind power is the way to go for the UK, they're already building loads more at the moment and have quotas set to increase renewable energy sources in the next few years or face fines anyway so hopefully that'll work as a good enough incentive :]
This is beginning to feel like a sub-topic within the main thread between just us lol
The waste disposal is probably the biggest problem, but what a lot of people fail to do is to balance this against the fact that nuclear power produces no greenhouse gases - they emit no gas but water vapour. So they do not contribute to global warming, and do not create acid rain, smog etc.
I'm not sure what the volume of waste produced is but I know it is relatively low, and the containers are very, very well designed to contain even gamma rays (the most penetrative).

Nuclear fuel is *not*, an indefinite option, I believe it should only be used for a hundred years or so to bridge the gap between running out of oil and making renewable energy sources efficient enough.

The risk of an attack on a nuclear power station is obviously of major concern, but measures can be taken to minimize this: placing them away from populated areas, storing nuclear materials underground etc etc.

It does have real disadvantages, but they are outweighed, imo, when you take into account that they do not produce any greenhouse gases, and that they are quite necessary as a 'bridge' between fossil and renewable fuels.
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#84
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#84
(Original post by marcusfox)
"I was once a vegan. But well before I became pregnant, I concluded that a vegan pregnancy was irresponsible.
This is the opinion of the journalist. I don't believe it to be always irresponsible to be vegan during pregnancy.
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marcusfox
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#85
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#85
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
This is the opinion of the journalist. I don't believe it to be always irresponsible to be vegan during pregnancy.
Your quote was also her opinion. It doesn't make it any less of a fact.

Marcus
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Veni_vidi
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#86
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#86
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
They don't need milk, they need calcium.
and where do you suppose calcium comes from?

dairy product i guess, which is a big no no in a vegan diet
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#87
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#87
(Original post by marcusfox)
Your quote was also her opinion. It doesn't make it any less of a fact.

Marcus
No, the quote I used said it was stupid to feed your kid apple juice and soy milk. I pointed out that this does not mean feeding your baby soy formula is stupid. Babies don't die from being fed only on soy formula, because it's a formula specifically made to provide nutrients for babies.

The baby in the article died because its parents were stupid. I have not denied that feeding you kid on a vegan diet that you plan badly and that does not contain the required nutrients will kill it.
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Dill
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Drummer23)
Not only that, but religiously: in the bible, Genesis, God says to adam that the animals he has created are there for man's usage. This could easily mean eating, and im positive that it may actually SAY eating them.

So is it against biology (like Marcus points out) and religion?
But one can also find quotes in the Bible suggesting the opposite.
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Beckysaurus
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Veni_vidi)
and where do you suppose calcium comes from?

dairy product i guess, which is a big no no in a vegan diet
you don't just get calcium in dairy products...you can get it in nuts and seeds, beans, broccoli, kale, oranges, molasses and lots of orange juices and soya/rice milk are fortified with calcium.
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#90
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(Original post by Veni_vidi)
and where do you suppose calcium comes from?

dairy product i guess, which is a big no no in a vegan diet
Where do the cows get it form in the first place? Plants.

Vegan sources of calcium include broccoli, soybeans, almonds, spinach, pumpkin seeds, pine nuts, avacado, peas, sesame seeds, tofu, celery...
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marcusfox
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#91
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#91
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
No, the quote I used said it was stupid to feed your kid apple juice and soy milk. I pointed out that this does not mean feeding your baby soy formula is stupid. Babies don't die from being fed only on soy formula, because it's a formula specifically made to provide nutrients for babies.

The baby in the article died because its parents were stupid. I have not denied that feeding you kid on a vegan diet that you plan badly and that does not contain the required nutrients will kill it.
So how should vegan parents feed their babies then? The natural way, from the breast, and add loads of artificial supplements to its diet? Normal baby formula is not vegan friendly either.

Marcus
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Sarahl89
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#92
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(Original post by jgupta)
This is beginning to feel like a sub-topic within the main thread between just us lol
The waste disposal is probably the biggest problem, but what a lot of people fail to do is to balance this against the fact that nuclear power produces no greenhouse gases - they emit no gas but water vapour. So they do not contribute to global warming, and do not create acid rain, smog etc.
I'm not sure what the volume of waste produced is but I know it is relatively low, and the containers are very, very well designed to contain even gamma rays (the most penetrative).

Nuclear fuel is *not*, an indefinite option, I believe it should only be used for a hundred years or so to bridge the gap between running out of oil and making renewable energy sources efficient enough.

The risk of an attack on a nuclear power station is obviously of major concern, but measures can be taken to minimize this: placing them away from populated areas, storing nuclear materials underground etc etc.

It does have real disadvantages, but they are outweighed, imo, when you take into account that they do not produce any greenhouse gases, and that they are quite necessary as a 'bridge' between fossil and renewable fuels.
High risk waste actually isnt that safelt contained - the containers have to be changed every few years (cant remember how many) and they can take thousands of years to decay to safe levels - causing potential problems for future generations. Also they're often dumped at sea, away from populated areas, which could cause problems with fish stocks.
And water vapour is actually the most significant greenhouse gas - id quote percentages but they differ so much from one source to another that i dont know which is exactly right - but sources claim %s from anywhere between 60-98% of total greenhouse gases are water vapour.
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#93
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#93
(Original post by marcusfox)
So how should vegan parents feed their babies then? The natural way, from the breast, and add loads of artificial supplements to its diet? Normal baby formula is not vegan friendly either.

Marcus
Vegan parents would feed their baby breast milk. If they can't do this, soy formula. No need for artificial supplements (although I assume the soy formula will be fortified with various nutrients the baby needs, as is normal formula).
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Veni_vidi
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#94
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#94
(Original post by Beckysaurus)
you don't just get calcium in dairy products...you can get it in nuts and seeds, beans, broccoli, kale, oranges, molasses and lots of orange juices and soya/rice milk are fortified with calcium.
am sure children love those stuff
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Veni_vidi)
am sure children love those stuff
Yeah, if that's what you give it. I would have eaten all of these things as a kid.
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Joanna May
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#96
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(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
I don't see it that way. I am vegetarian for health reasons.
Are you also opposed to deodorants, chips and all the other things I listed earlier on "health" reasons? Because they have a far higher risk of causing cancer than meat does. How can the minute risk of developing cancer from meat be more of a problem than being forced into taking supplements or having to eat a huge amount of nuts and seeds.

Okay. I'm not advocating everyone bringing up their child on a vegan diet AT ALL. I'm saying that a vegan diet, done right (and without the child having pre-existing health problems such as allergies), does not make the child automatically unhealthy.
Many babies wont drink soya milk because they simply don't like the taste. Most of my cousins refused to drink it, and at that age you can't reason with a child to convince them how healthy it is. You list all these other ways of getting calcium, but how do you propose to feed food like that to an infant? Their systems can't handle it...

Besdies, soy is linked to cancer. And surely, as someone who is so conscious of health risk to the point of giving up meat, you'd object to feeding small children soya? If the miniscule risk associated with meat is bad enough that you won't personally touch it, why advocate giving an equally risky product to infants?
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Veni_vidi
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#97
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#97
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
Where do the cows get it form in the first place? Plants.

Vegan sources of calcium include broccoli, soybeans, almonds, spinach, pumpkin seeds, pine nuts, avacado, peas, sesame seeds, tofu, celery...
so you will give this to your 3 year old child everyday
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Joanna May)
Are you also opposed to deodorants, chips and all the other things I listed earlier on "health" reasons? Because they have a far higher risk of causing cancer than meat does. How can the minute risk of developing cancer from meat be more of a problem than being forced into taking supplements or having to eat a huge amount of nuts and seeds.
I'm not a vegetarian because I think meat will give me cancer...

And I don't take supplements or eat loads of nuts and seeds.


(Original post by Joanna May)
Many babies wont drink soya milk because they simply don't like the taste. Most of my cousins refused to drink it, and at that age you can't reason with a child to convince them how healthy it is. You list all these other ways of getting calcium, but how do you propose to feed food like that to an infant? Their systems can't handle it...
Then give them dairy? I don't care, I'm not vegan and I won't be bringing any children up vegan. My only point is that vegan child does not automatically equal unhealthy or dead child.

For many babies it is stupid to bring them up vegan. But it's not always this way. That's my point. I'm not saying everyone feed their kid soya.

(Original post by Joanna May)
Besdies, soy is linked to cancer. And surely, as someone who is so conscious of health risk to the point of giving up meat, you'd object to feeding small children soya? If the miniscule risk associated with meat is bad enough that you won't personally touch it, why advocate giving an equally risky product to infants?
I'm not going to feed my kids soya, but if others want to they can.
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nolongerhearthemusic
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Veni_vidi)
so you will this to your 3 year old child everyday
Yes. You do know it's normal for a toddler to eat loads of vegetables?
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marcusfox
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#100
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#100
(Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
Yes. You do know it's normal for a toddler to eat loads of vegetables?
It is normal for humans as a species to eat meat and dairy. What is not normal is to deny others that on your own ethical grounds.

Marcus
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