R45- Ministerial Report from the Equalities minister, RSE guidance 2020. Watch

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Andrew97
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Amendments to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT), section 37 of the RSE guidance 2020

Ministerial report from the Minister of EqualitiesIn conjunction with the Department for Education, her majesty's government will be including further LGBT+ representation into Relationships Education, Health Education and Relationship and Sex Education (RSA) as follows...

Amendments to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT), section 37 of the RSE guidance
(a) Mentions of LGBT will be changed to LGBT+ to be inclusive of the entire community.
(b) "At the point at which schools consider it appropriate to teach their pupils about LGBT" to be amended to include LGBT education from the same age as education on heterosexual education.
(c) Transgender education to cover the wider topic of gender identity, and to educate on identities including non-binary, agender, and gender-fluid, alongside raising awareness of the existence of identities beyond this.
(d) Sex education to include sexual orientations outside of LGB, including, but not limited to, asexual, demisexual, and pansexual.
(e) Title of section 37 to be amended to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender and Queer (LGBT+)

Exemption
(a) Parents will continue to have the right to withdraw their child for some, or all, of sex education delivered by RSE, if they so wish.
(b) Those whose religious beliefs contradict same-sex marriage will not have to endorse same-sex marriage, but they will have to make pupils aware of LGBT relationships to the full extent of the new guidance.

These changes provide a greater awareness of LGBT+ identities, they allow our children to think more broadly about questions of identity and they help to prevent stigma around certain sexual orientations by generating open discussions about them. This government is proud to defend the rights of people who are LGBT+. I commend this statement to the house.
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Andrew97
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TSR is absolutely refusing to recognise the top sentence.

Its a ministerial report from the Minister of Equalities shadowdweller.
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by Andrew97)
TSR is absolutely refusing to recognise the top sentence.

Its a ministerial report from the Minister of Equalities shadowdweller.
I think I've managed to get it to play nicely now
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Rakas21
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I hope this goes to vote in accordance with the guidance document.

Point C is an abhorrent attack on gender norms and encourages gender confusion.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Rakas21)
I hope this goes to vote in accordance with the guidance document.

Point C is an abhorrent attack on gender norms and encourages gender confusion.
I shall outline how this could go to a vote once the 6 day debate has elapsed.
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ns_2
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Whilst I acknowledge the sentiment of this action, it is action I, and by virtue my party, strongly oppose.

Sex education is a highly intimiate area of the education system that ought to be primarily led by parents, teachers and the children themselves; not some policymaker. Education, in all aspects, is best recieved when it is specifically tailored to the class and pupils in question. Teachers must use their professional wisdom to determine what is right to teach and when it is right to do so.

I shall, in my position as LOTO, be pushing this to a vote of this House.
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04MR17
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(Original post by ns_2)
Whilst I acknowledge the sentiment of this action, it is action I, and by virtue my party, strongly oppose.

Sex education is a highly intimiate area of the education system that ought to be primarily led by parents, teachers and the children themselves; not some policymaker. Education, in all aspects, is best recieved when it is specifically tailored to the class and pupils in question. Teachers must use their professional wisdom to determine what is right to teach and when it is right to do so.

I shall, in my position as LOTO, be pushing this to a vote of this House.
Why do you think sex education was first introduced?
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Rakas21
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*Cheers from the Tory benches.
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by Rakas21)
I hope this goes to vote in accordance with the guidance document.

Point C is an abhorrent attack on gender norms and encourages gender confusion.
I'm sorry you feel this way; to clarify, this report aims to update RSE to cover topics that are already existent and prominent; I do not believe this will cause any confusion. If anything, it will offer more clarity to students who are already questioning, and do not understand why. In regards to your point on gender norms, those are defined by society, and the points included in C are already part of that.
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by ns_2)
Whilst I acknowledge the sentiment of this action, it is action I, and by virtue my party, strongly oppose.

Sex education is a highly intimiate area of the education system that ought to be primarily led by parents, teachers and the children themselves; not some policymaker. Education, in all aspects, is best recieved when it is specifically tailored to the class and pupils in question. Teachers must use their professional wisdom to determine what is right to teach and when it is right to do so.

I shall, in my position as LOTO, be pushing this to a vote of this House.
Whilst in an ideal world we would not need guidance on topics like this, sadly it remains the case that leaving it to the educators discretion, be that parent or teacher, then students would not receive the full education that they need; even with this in place, STIs and teen pregnancies remain an issue, for an example.

Let's not forget too, that many students would lack any LGBT+ education, let alone a sufficient one if it were not outlined as required.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
I'm sorry you feel this way; to clarify, this report aims to update RSE to cover topics that are already existent and prominent; I do not believe this will cause any confusion. If anything, it will offer more clarity to students who are already questioning, and do not understand why. In regards to your point on gender norms, those are defined by society, and the points included in C are already part of that.
While these topics may already be discussed in part that in itself is not an argument to support these amendments. Firstly because the state should not be encouraging transgender views in children at all (god forbid burdening the taxpayer and performing it on the NHS) but secondly because as NS states, it is arguable that the state already encroaches into an area that should be the remit of the parent.

In short, the state has already encroached far enough and the line should be drawn here. Indeed I am not entirely comfortable with point D and the damage that things like asexuality does to society (namely through not reproducing should they not be genetically defective).
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shadowdweller
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(Original post by Rakas21)
While these topics may already be discussed in part that in itself is not an argument to support these amendments. Firstly because the state should not be encouraging transgender views in children at all (god forbid burdening the taxpayer and performing it on the NHS) but secondly because as NS states, it is arguable that the state already encroaches into an area that should be the remit of the parent.

In short, the state has already encroached far enough and the line should be drawn here. Indeed I am not entirely comfortable with point D and the damage that things like asexuality does to society (namely through not reproducing should they not be genetically defective).
Just to let you know, I've seen this, but will respond fully tomorrow, if that's okay? It's Results Day, and I've been on the forums since early this morning, so I'd like to address this when I am more awake!
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ns_2
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
Just to let you know, I've seen this, but will respond fully tomorrow, if that's okay? It's Results Day, and I've been on the forums since early this morning, so I'd like to address this when I am more awake!
You and me both...I've been stressed out for a while and I just did one A-level this year.
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Baron of Sealand
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I would like to know what exactly is expected of teachers in terms of "teaching" about these genders?

I dare say most teachers would not have heard of genders such as bigender and genderqueer, and most people could not empathize or understand what it actually means to be one of these, even as I say it as a member of this LGBT so-called community. How do you expect teachers to teach them if they could not understand them? Could teachers possibly teach how it feels like to experience snowing if they have never experienced snowing in their lives?

There can be an argument made for teachers to still do it, but only if such gender identity is clearly defined scientifically, or if it can be presented with another approach, such as a historical approach with regards to 2-spirit peoples (as that'd be more about Native American history and culture rather than an attempt to describe a personal identity and feeling that is utterly alien to the teachers). But are the new gender identities sufficiently documented and analyzed for anything of this sort to be presented?

Or is this guideline only expecting teachers to briefly mention the fact that some people, somehow, identify with a special gender identity that most people cannot relate to or understand? If that's the case, is it even useful?

If the aim is to help confused students find their way, wouldn't that be the job of a counsellor?
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Aph
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(Original post by ns_2)
Whilst I acknowledge the sentiment of this action, it is action I, and by virtue my party, strongly oppose.

Sex education is a highly intimiate area of the education system that ought to be primarily led by parents, teachers and the children themselves; not some policymaker. Education, in all aspects, is best recieved when it is specifically tailored to the class and pupils in question. Teachers must use their professional wisdom to determine what is right to teach and when it is right to do so.

I shall, in my position as LOTO, be pushing this to a vote of this House.
I find this statement particularly perplexing. Sex education was introduced because parents weren’t having these discussions with their children. Further, if children are able to have sex they need to be able to discuss it, and if a child finds themselves attracted to members of the same sex as them they need to know it’s okay. I assume of course that the Right Honourable member supports same sex relationships?

If teachers, in their professional wisdom, decided to teach that Marxism is the only correct system or that Sharia Law needed to be brought to the UK I’m sure you would be up in arms along with many of your colleagues. Of course you would have every right to be.

The reason we have a national curriculum is to ensure that education is balanced and children are taught facts. All this piece of secondary legislation does is ensure that children are taught that sex isn’t only between a man and a woman from the moment they start learning about sex. I don’t see how the Right Honourable member can oppose this action.
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LiberOfLondon
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I really don't see the point of teaching people about what mainly seem to be made up terms used for bragging rights on Tumblr. I have no problem with lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transsexuals/genders but think that it is a bit of a p*sstake to compare the struggles of an Islingtonite pansexual demiboy otherkin or Jonathan Yaniv with Alan Turing. Change the Bill to teach about being homosexual and bisexual in secondary school (the age when you start wondering if you are part of the LGBT community) and I will likely back it. For the time being, given it seems to contain every ”snowflakey” ”gender” in the book, I shall vote no.
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Connor27
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There are only two genders, we should promote biological facts, not the delusions of the mentally ill. NAY.
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Connor27
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I would like to know the Acting Deputy PM, SoggyCabbages’, thoughts on this cultural Marxist nonsense?
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SoggyCabbages
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(Original post by Connor27)
I would like to know the Acting Deputy PM, SoggyCabbages’, thoughts on this cultural Marxist nonsense?
Well I better not say too much otherwise that whip will be cracking. But you can imagine my views.
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CatusStarbright
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I tentatively support this.

I am definitely in favour of people learning about such matters, because ultimately it is ignorance which breeds prejudice, discrimination and, at the more extreme end, persecution. By being knowledgeable about other groups in society we can all live together better (it can be hoped). It also has the benefits of helping break the forced heteronormativity which can help teens who are feeling like they don't 'fit the mould' (in whatever way) feel valid and accepted. It can also show those who are still exploring their sexuality that there are other ways of being, perhaps showing them an identity that they feel describes them. I know personally that if I had been told about asexuality earlier it might have saved me a lot of hassle and soul-searching.

My issue is this: teachers are often woefully underqualified to teach sex education matters. The sex ed at my school was terrible, and this was for heterosexual sex and relationships, which my teachers were certainly familiar with. shadowdweller will you be requiring PSHCEE teachers to be given training before they deliver sex education sessions, or will you be proposing any other such solution to this issue?
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