Why is there no pride in England as a country? Watch

looloo2134
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#41
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#41
(Original post by AngryRedhead)
Flying the flag of St George or espousing any kind of pro-England view will lead most people to assume you’re some kind of BNP supporting racist thanks to the fact we’ve been indoctrinated to accept all immigrants into our country irrespective of their culture, beliefs and what skills they add into the economy.
There was a group of Sikhs on the news enjoying St George a lot of people of Asia descent are proud to English more than some white British people.
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AzuraBlue
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#42
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(Original post by Quady)
So the English Unification of AD927 is a myth you say? Interesting - have you written any papers on your theory?

You realise there is the Yorkshire Party now has seven elected councillors? It doubled its vote share from 1 to 2% in the 2015/17 general elections, then doubled again to 4% in the 2019 European election. Only a matter of time.
Why are you denying facts? Yes England became a country in 927 but all the other kingdoms formed into England as well. Yorkshire is no different to Lancashire, yet you don't see Lancashire wanting independence. You are just believing in a conspiracy theory.
And it's been stated over and over again by the Yorkshire Party that they want devolved powers, NOT full independence. Yorkshire is not Scotland, so get that into your head. Yorkshire is not legally allowed full independence. They're not stupid and deluded.
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londonmyst
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#43
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(Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
"Proud to be British" is normally a phrase that precedes or follows racist or anti-Islamic statements or opinions, so the notion of it has become associated with racism.
In my experience, it's more aggressive xenophobia or jingoism than race hate.
Exempting those delightful habitual criminals of the BNP and Britain First.

But this attitude seems to only extend to Britain and England.
Ulster "loyalist, loud and proud", "proud welshman waving the red dragon flag for st david's day"and "Proud to be Scottish/Scots nationalist waving the saltaire"- they all generate a totally different reaction.
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londonmyst
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#44
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#44
(Original post by looloo2134)
There was a group of Sikhs on the news enjoying St George a lot of people of Asia descent are proud to English more than some white British people.
Yes- I know so many people with asian heritage that love celebrating St George's day and the best of england's history.

A lot of British people are ashamed of some of the actions of the british empire and other events that occurred several centuries ago.
Some people have told me that they fear participating in St George's day celebrations will be interpreted as xenophobia, triumphalism or worse.
Of course, no reasonable person wants to be mistaken for one of the criminals of the bnp or britain first.
But celebrating all the best things about a country should never be considered taboo or off-limits.
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looloo2134
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#45
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Yes- I know so many people with asian heritage that love celebrating St George's day and the best of england's history.

A lot of British people are ashamed of some of the actions of the british empire and other events that occurred several centuries ago.
Some people have told me that they fear participating in St George's day celebrations will be interpreted as xenophobia, triumphalism or worse.
Of course, no reasonable person wants to be mistaken for one of the criminals of the bnp or britain first.
But celebrating all the best things about a country should never be considered taboo or off-limits.
My local high street does St Georges day each year it is really fun.
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Quady
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#46
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#46
(Original post by AzuraBlue)
Why are you denying facts? Yes England became a country in 927 but all the other kingdoms formed into England as well.

Yorkshire is no different to Lancashire, yet you don't see Lancashire wanting independence.

You are just believing in a conspiracy theory.

And it's been stated over and over again by the Yorkshire Party that they want devolved powers, NOT full independence.

Yorkshire is not Scotland, so get that into your head.

Yorkshire is not legally allowed full independence. They're not stupid and deluded.
Just as the union when Scotland joined England the Kingdoms formed the 'UK'.

Where did I imply that every county has an active nationalist movement? If anything Lancashire would rather remain in the union should Yorkshire decide to leave imho.

What conspiracy theory?

Of course they say that, they don't want to scare the horses. Thin end of the wedge.

Nor is Scotland (or Yorkshire) Gurnsey, Eire or India. Not sure what point t you're trying to make there. Also, you're very Yorkshire focused for some reason.

Scotland isn't either, nor was India less than 100 years ago. 25 years ago Wales didn't have devolution, just as Yorkshire and Westmoreland don't now. There are a lot of dumb and deluded folk in Yorkshire. I graduated from York Uni....
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AzuraBlue
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#47
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(Original post by Quady)
Just as the union when Scotland joined England the Kingdoms formed the 'UK'.

Where did I imply that every county has an active nationalist movement? If anything Lancashire would rather remain in the union should Yorkshire decide to leave imho.

What conspiracy theory?

Of course they say that, they don't want to scare the horses. Thin end of the wedge.

Nor is Scotland (or Yorkshire) Gurnsey, Eire or India. Not sure what point t you're trying to make there. Also, you're very Yorkshire focused for some reason.

Scotland isn't either, nor was India less than 100 years ago. 25 years ago Wales didn't have devolution, just as Yorkshire and Westmoreland don't now. There are a lot of dumb and deluded folk in Yorkshire. I graduated from York Uni....
Scotland is a separate entity in it's own right. Yorkshire is not. Neither is Cornwall. However there have been reports that Cornwall was once separate from England and was not united with the rest of England by the Saxons. It's easy to see why Cornwall is different as it has it's own culture, it's own language, it's own cuisine and even it's own unofficial national anthem. Yorkshire has neither of those. Cybernats will claim that their region is distinct when it actually isn't and this is the case all over the world. The reality is is that Yorkshire is a Shire county, so it can't secede. If it could then other parts would want to follow. Why do you think none of the states in America are allowed to secede? Same reason. There's a tiny movement in California to secede and become it's own country but it will never happen. Keep deluding yourself, but there are laws that cover various legislation as part of a Treaty and all I'm saying is that Yorkshire can't secede. They can try, but they will not get anywhere. And there is not the popularity to support it either.
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Quady
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#48
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(Original post by AzuraBlue)
Scotland is a separate entity in it's own right. Yorkshire is not. Neither is Cornwall. However there have been reports that Cornwall was once separate from England and was not united with the rest of England by the Saxons. It's easy to see why Cornwall is different as it has it's own culture, it's own language, it's own cuisine and even it's own unofficial national anthem. Yorkshire has neither of those. Cybernats will claim that their region is distinct when it actually isn't and this is the case all over the world. The reality is is that Yorkshire is a Shire county, so it can't secede. If it could then other parts would want to follow. Why do you think none of the states in America are allowed to secede? Same reason. There's a tiny movement in California to secede and become it's own country but it will never happen. Keep deluding yourself, but there are laws that cover various legislation as part of a Treaty and all I'm saying is that Yorkshire can't secede. They can try, but they will not get anywhere. And there is not the popularity to support it either.
Sorry, how is Scotland a separate entity in it's own right? bit of a different legal system, but not separate. Far from separate. Hence the wrangling over the British Transport Police.

Pakistan wasn't an entity at all until it seceded. Gurnsey seceded Normandy.

Which legislation? As you well know a lot of our constitution isn't codified / in legislation. Funnily enough, a lot of the stuff from pre 1066 isn't codified.

Did you purposefully miss the actual intent of the post of mine that you first commented on? ie, you realise this is a massive sidetrack to my substantive point?
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AzuraBlue
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Quady)
Sorry, how is Scotland a separate entity in it's own right? bit of a different legal system, but not separate. Far from separate. Hence the wrangling over the British Transport Police.

Pakistan wasn't an entity at all until it seceded. Gurnsey seceded Normandy.

Which legislation? As you well know a lot of our constitution isn't codified / in legislation. Funnily enough, a lot of the stuff from pre 1066 isn't codified.

Did you purposefully miss the actual intent of the post of mine that you first commented on? ie, you realise this is a massive sidetrack to my substantive point?
I could insert a facepalm here but I really don't want this to turn into a nasty political debate. Just look up what the Yorkshire Party are trying to achieve. They voted for Change UK but the Yorkshire Party ended up having more results. You claim to think that they're trying to achieve what the SNP are doing, which they're not. The SNP are only held in Scotland's interest, whilst Yorkshire wants devolved powers within the UK. Sorry to say but you started off the discussion by making this "Yorkshire based" whilst I replied to you and told you that's not the case. It really does sound to me that you are just messing about.
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L i b
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#50
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(Original post by AzuraBlue)
Scotland is a separate entity in it's own right. Yorkshire is not. Neither is Cornwall.
Scotland is not a "separate entity", it is part of the United Kingdom.

The reality is is that Yorkshire is a Shire county, so it can't secede. If it could then other parts would want to follow. Why do you think none of the states in America are allowed to secede?
No part of the United Kingdom can secede. Parts can be granted independence by the sovereign UK Parliament - on whatever basis it sees fit. Southern Ireland couldn't secede from the UK and yet it became independent of it in 1922.
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Quady
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#51
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#51
(Original post by L i b)
Scotland is not a "separate entity", it is part of the United Kingdom.



No part of the United Kingdom can secede. Parts can be granted independence by the sovereign UK Parliament - on whatever basis it sees fit. Southern Ireland couldn't secede from the UK and yet it became independent of it in 1922.
Thank you LIB. They think I'm a nutter, they are just very misplaced on their viewpoint of the issues at play.
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Quady
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#52
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(Original post by AzuraBlue)
I could insert a facepalm here but I really don't want this to turn into a nasty political debate. Just look up what the Yorkshire Party are trying to achieve. They voted for Change UK but the Yorkshire Party ended up having more results. You claim to think that they're trying to achieve what the SNP are doing, which they're not. The SNP are only held in Scotland's interest, whilst Yorkshire wants devolved powers within the UK. Sorry to say but you started off the discussion by making this "Yorkshire based" whilst I replied to you and told you that's not the case. It really does sound to me that you are just messing about.
That's not actually what I've claimed. I've said that what could happen over time. You're comparing a politicial movement of 85+ years which has achieved devolution, to one which is less than 10 years old.

And you continue to ignore the actual point I was making in the post you originally replied to. Pride is often at the regional level or sovereign state level rather than at the country level in England.
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AzuraBlue
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#53
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(Original post by L i b)
Scotland is not a "separate entity", it is part of the United Kingdom.



No part of the United Kingdom can secede. Parts can be granted independence by the sovereign UK Parliament - on whatever basis it sees fit. Southern Ireland couldn't secede from the UK and yet it became independent of it in 1922.
I should have worded it better but what I meant is that Scotland is it's own country. It has a different legislation to England and Wales. It does have legislation that it has within the UK, but it also has it's laws that are separate to the rest of the UK. Yorkshire does not have it's own laws. It has the same laws as England because it's an English county. Devolution is wanting to make decisions for your own region but still gets approval through Westminster. Independence is being completely self-governing. You are in complete control of your own affairs. Westminster can no longer interfere. Some people think that devolved powers is the same as wanting independence when it isn't. To a degree, it is making your own decisions but you are still run by the central government.
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Rose992
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#54
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#54
Personally, there's nothing wrong with pride in your country if it's pride in your country and nothing more racist toned

Wales for example, most everyone has a Welsh dragon on their car number plate, Cardiff's streets and the flags, everyone's been to a few of the national heritage attractions like big pit and the castles, and there's a pride in the history behind the country and everything represented by the red dragon, on green and white.

English pride is wildly different however, the majority couldn't tell you where Stonehenge is or where the queen lives, mainly because it isn't pride in the country and the history, it's pride you were born there and not some where else. Obviously there will be some who aren't the EDL type of English pride but they do seem to be the majority.
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Quady
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(Original post by AzuraBlue)
I should have worded it better but what I meant is that Scotland is it's own country. It has a different legislation to England and Wales. It does have legislation that it has within the UK, but it also has it's laws that are separate to the rest of the UK. Yorkshire does not have it's own laws. It has the same laws as England because it's an English county. Devolution is wanting to make decisions for your own region but still gets approval through Westminster. Independence is being completely self-governing. You are in complete control of your own affairs. Westminster can no longer interfere. Some people think that devolved powers is the same as wanting independence when it isn't. To a degree, it is making your own decisions but you are still run by the central government.
How do you view the arrangement the City of London has?
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L i b
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(Original post by AzuraBlue)
I should have worded it better but what I meant is that Scotland is it's own country. It has a different legislation to England and Wales. It does have legislation that it has within the UK, but it also has it's laws that are separate to the rest of the UK. Yorkshire does not have it's own laws. It has the same laws as England because it's an English county. Devolution is wanting to make decisions for your own region but still gets approval through Westminster. Independence is being completely self-governing. You are in complete control of your own affairs. Westminster can no longer interfere. Some people think that devolved powers is the same as wanting independence when it isn't. To a degree, it is making your own decisions but you are still run by the central government.
Scotland's devolution remains relatively recent, it has only been in place for 20 years. Were the people of Yorkshire to be so minded - and we very nearly did have devolution for Yorkshire as part of Tony Blair's Government's policy - they could have it, have their own laws and all that. That's no real bar to Yorkshire finding itself in the same position; it's all just about will.
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Bazyli
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#57
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(Original post by Quady)
How do you view the arrangement the City of London has?
London should declare independence and become an EU-governed city state. Then Scotland should and join the EU. Then Ireland should reunite. We'll see how well the brexiteers will get on with the scraps that are left
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Allie4
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#58
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(Original post by username4911280)
Unfortunately, the English Flag as well as the identity of being "English" has become linked with racism and prejudice. If you see someone with an English flag outside their house, you might think they didn't take too kindly to foreigners moving in next door.

I believe a lot of people identify as being "British". I know I certainly do. Most people see themselves as "British" before "English". However, I do agree that Brexit as well as recent economic affairs has been extremely demoralising for cultural identity. I am personally a Brexiteer (not trying to start an argument, just stating where I stand) and I feel that leaving the EU and being able to take back more control of our trade, our workforce, rules and regulations is going to be good. I certainly still feel proud to be a member of this nation - there's so much to be proud of!
Ask around. Even before the whole 'oh its racist to have a British flag' rubbish, the English were never really that patriotic to begin with. Many used to say it themselves, that you only see patriotism during the world cup otherwise no one really gave two *****. I dare you, any guy who claims hes a proud Englishman - put him on the spot and quiz him about England. ask about its history or at the very least ask him to name at least 20 cities in England or point to them on a map of England. Watch how many of them actually get it right....

kinda pathetic that they had to wait for terrorist attacks to happen to use that as an excuse for patriotism 'dying out' when the fact is, it was never really there to begin with.
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AzuraBlue
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(Original post by Allie4)
Bullsh*t, ask around. Even before the whole 'oh its racist to have a British flag' rubbish, the English were never really that patriotic to begin with. Many used to say it themselves, that you only see patriotism during the world cup otherwise no one really gave two f*cks. I dare you, any guy who claims hes a proud Englishman - put him on the spot and quiz him about England. ask about its history or at the very least ask him to name at least 20 cities in England or point to them on a map of England. Watch how many of them actually get it right....

kinda pathetic that they had to wait for terrorist attacks to happen to use that as an excuse for patriotism 'dying out' when the fact is, it was never really there to begin with.
Your ignorance is beyond utter stupidity. What people are saying on here is true. The England flag got hijacked by the far right in the late 70s, showing a dodgy side of nationalism and xenophobia towards foreigners. The Scotland and Wales flags were not flown to represent hatred of immigrants, that's why they're not viewed the same. If everyone thought like you then there wouldn't be the St Geroge flag flying at all. You would never see it. You're the one that's talking bs. What about all the previous documentaries from the 50s and 60s that showed patriotic pride towards England and Britain? Was Vera Lynn's "There'll Always Be an England" written for nothing then? You're the one that is making all this rubbish up, and it's people like you are the reason we have this problem. You just like to make people feel guilty by making everything downtrodden. I've seen videos of English people labelling all their cities. Most of them know their geography. Again, that's just you making things up.
Last edited by AzuraBlue; 2 weeks ago
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Napp
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(Original post by Allie4)
Bullsh*t, ask around. Even before the whole 'oh its racist to have a British flag' rubbish, the English were never really that patriotic to begin with. Many used to say it themselves, that you only see patriotism during the world cup otherwise no one really gave two f*cks. I dare you, any guy who claims hes a proud Englishman - put him on the spot and quiz him about England. ask about its history or at the very least ask him to name at least 20 cities in England or point to them on a map of England. Watch how many of them actually get it right....

kinda pathetic that they had to wait for terrorist attacks to happen to use that as an excuse for patriotism 'dying out' when the fact is, it was never really there to begin with.
Since when?
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