Far-right mob clashes with counter-protesters in Portland, bringing city to standstil Watch

AngeryPenguin
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Trump, as usual, ignores the far-right and tries to blame it on democrats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/u...-protests.html

At a news conference on Saturday night, Mayor Ted Wheeler of Portland excoriated Joe Biggs, who formerly worked for the far-right conspiracy show “Infowars” and was one of the main organizers of the rally. He said Mr. Biggs was stoking fear and wasting taxpayer dollars on security measures.“We do not want him here in my city, period,” Mr. Wheeler said, adding thatfar-right groups have been emboldened to spread their messages of hate, due to Oregon's free speech laws.
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z-hog
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Police arrested 13 people as far-right groups rallying in the north-western US city of Portland, Oregon, skirmished with left-wing counter-protesters.
This is the way the BBC refer to it, the far-right against the left. Independent, honest and unbiased as ever.

What I really can't stand is the way the Left insult people's intelligence at times. Goof enough for their own but boy...
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J0n3zviper
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(Original post by z-hog)
This is the way the BBC refer to it, the far-right against the left. Independent, honest and unbiased as ever.

What I really can't stand is the way the Left insult people's intelligence at times. Goof enough for their own but boy...
You do know far-right groups exist? Are you one of those racists who insist racism doesn't exist and everytime someone is a blatant victim of discrimination you accuse them of playing the race card? That's the vibe I get from you tbh.
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Just my opinion
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Getting in early before the damming video evidence shows up.
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Stalin
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"Counter-protesters".

You mean Antifa i.e. so-called 'anti-fascists' historically 'Antifaschistische Aktion', a group that counters what it deems and labels fascistic with fascism.

It's ironic, but due to its authoritarian and intolerant views and practices this so-called 'anti-fascist' group is actually one of the most fascistic political groups in the US today.

I would argue that due its numbers, and the media's inability to accurately describe what the group stands for, Antifa is the largest and most influential group promoting fascist values in the US today.

(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
Trump, as usual, ignores the far-right and tries to blame it on democrats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/u...-protests.html

At a news conference on Saturday night, Mayor Ted Wheeler of Portland excoriated Joe Biggs, who formerly worked for the far-right conspiracy show “Infowars” and was one of the main organizers of the rally. He said Mr. Biggs was stoking fear and wasting taxpayer dollars on security measures.“We do not want him here in my city, period,” Mr. Wheeler said, adding thatfar-right groups have been emboldened to spread their messages of hate, due to Oregon's free speech laws.
Last edited by Stalin; 1 month ago
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Just my opinion
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Who goes along planning to be violent?
Its really easy.
Whoever hides their faces.
The hours of YT video shows it
Its time to pass a law that in a given volatile protest situation police can order all protesters to demask or be arrested.
The other thing for so called anti racist they aren't even slightly diverse.
In the words of John Snow, I've never seen so many white people in one place.
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Just my opinion
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(Original post by Stalin)
"Counter-protesters".
I would argue that due its numbers, and the media's inability to accurately describe what the group stands for, Antifa is the largest and most influential group promoting fascist values in the US today.
Spot on.
They copy exactly the tactics of Hitler's Brown shirts
and Mosleys Blackshirts.
They wouldn't know irony if it sat next to them on a bus.
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Underscore__
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It does seem ironic that people who claim to oppose fascism violently assault people who hold different opinions.

This is also a gross mischaracterisation of what happened; the violence was almost entirely Antifa, as far as I'm aware nobody has any footage of the Proud Boys committing any violence.
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DR.DOOM
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Antifa deserves its place as a terrorist group. It is a group of vermin who wish to attack anyone that disagrees with them or they will attack anyone that they hate such as Ben Shapiro. Any of this sound familiar? the far right are just as worse as antifa and they too should be kept away from the safety of the public. Rats on both sides
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Napp
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(Original post by DR.DOOM)
Antifa deserves its place as a terrorist group. It is a group of vermin who wish to attack anyone that disagrees with them or they will attack anyone that they hate such as Ben Shapiro. Any of this sound familiar? the far right are just as worse as antifa and they too should be kept away from the safety of the public. Rats on both sides
Is antifa actually a group though? as opposed to a very loose collection of hooligans who like to wear that brand?
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by Just my opinion)
Getting in early before the damming video evidence shows up.
What "damming" evidence?
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nutz99
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
What "damming" evidence?
I know you struggle to think about anything that is not "left wing good" "right wing bad" but I'm sure you could have found the videos of the Antifa scum in Portland.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...28409367515139

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...portl-n2551841

The left have become the facist scum and Nazis that they pretend to hate. They are Hitlers brown shirts!
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hagbardceline
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(Original post by nutz99)
I know you struggle to think about anything that is not "left wing good" "right wing bad" but I'm sure with your limited abilities you could have found the videos of the Antifa scum in Portland.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...28409367515139

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...portl-n2551841

The left have become the facist scum and Nazis that they pretend to hate. They are Hitlers brown shirts!
If you think that Andy Ngo is a source that can be trusted to be accurate, objective and not a propaganda merchant and cheerleader for fascists then I really don't know what to tell you. @RespectableLaw posted some interesting information about Ngo's 'journalism' recently, if we're using Twitter as evidence.

And the whole 'AntiFa are as bad as the fascists' line is exactly the reaction that the fascists want.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by hagbardceline)
If you think that Andy Ngo is a source that can be trusted to be accurate, objective and not a propaganda merchant and cheerleader for fascists then I really don't know what to tell you. @RespectableLaw posted some interesting information about Ngo's 'journalism' recently, if we're using Twitter as evidence.

And the whole 'AntiFa are as bad as the fascists' line is exactly the reaction that the fascists want.
Which fascists are you referring to?
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by nutz99)
I know you struggle to think about anything that is not "left wing good" "right wing bad" but I'm sure with your limited abilities you could have found the videos of the Antifa scum in Portland.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...28409367515139

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...portl-n2551841

The left have become the facist scum and Nazis that they pretend to hate. They are Hitlers brown shirts!
Is this sarcasm?
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nutz99
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(Original post by hagbardceline)
If you think that Andy Ngo is a source that can be trusted to be accurate, objective and not a propaganda merchant and cheerleader for fascists then I really don't know what to tell you. @RespectableLaw posted some interesting information about Ngo's 'journalism' recently, if we're using Twitter as evidence.

And the whole 'AntiFa are as bad as the fascists' line is exactly the reaction that the fascists want.
The source are the videos in those articles and are entirely accurate and typical of the left's bully boys Antifa. Have you even watched them. Have you seen the video of the father and little girl being attacked and pepper sprayed by the left wing scum.

If there were any on YouTube I would have embedded them here but guess what, not one on YouTube yet I know for a fact that they were on there the day after Portland. I thought Facebook was bad but even YouTube is removing anything that puts the left in a bad light.

It does surprise me that supposedly intelligent people cannot see what is going on right before their eyes. The Nazis did it and so are the left. Control the media, suppress anything damaging, control the "truth" and get the bully boys to attack any support for the other side. As I said before the left are the new Nazis.

(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
Is this sarcasm?
Now why would you think that.
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by nutz99)
the left are the new Nazis.
Some leftists punch a Nazi, and your conclusion is that violence = totalitarianism = Nazism?

Every ideology has scenarios where it deems violence to be acceptable in order to further its agenda. For instance, centrists approve of state violence (police and military).

Anarchists are the furthest thing from totalitarians. They don't believe that the police should exist, instead that society should be upheld by vigilante justice. And that's what Antifa is - citizens distributing violence in order to uphold social values, as they believe that the police isn't. It's therefore no surprise that Antifa are mainly drawn from anarchists.

They simply aren't Nazis.
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nutz99
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
Some leftists punch a Nazi, and your conclusion is that violence = totalitarianism = Nazism?

Every ideology has scenarios where it deems violence to be acceptable in order to further its agenda. For instance, centrists approve of state violence (police and military).

Anarchists are the furthest thing from totalitarians. They don't believe that the police should exist, instead that society should be upheld by vigilante justice. And that's what Antifa is - citizens distributing violence in order to uphold social values, as they believe that the police isn't. It's therefore no surprise that Antifa are mainly drawn from anarchists.

They simply aren't Nazis.
Your argument is completely flawed in that the right in America have nothing in common with Nazis except for the lefty morons calling them Nazis. There are a few idiots who like to dress up in Nazi uniforms and wear swastikas but they make up a very small proportion of the right and whose ideologies are in no way associated with the Nazis.

In comparison Antifa have much in common with the way that the real Nazis operated. You are assuming that Antifa are anarchists. Antifa has no purpose for themselves. It's not anarchy in the true sense as they are being controlled. I saw videos of a previous demonstration in Portland where dozens of privately funded buses brought them in - this has also happened in other cities. Someone is using them for a purpose. To create mayhem, to try to make right wing demonstrators look bad, to promote violence. They are pawns being used by those who control the left. They are the left's bully boys - the current version of Nazis.
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hagbardceline
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(Original post by nutz99)
Your argument is completely flawed in that the right in America have nothing in common with Nazis except for the lefty morons calling them Nazis. There are a few idiots who like to dress up in Nazi uniforms and wear swastikas but they make up a very small proportion of the right and whose ideologies are in no way associated with the Nazis.

In comparison Antifa have much in common with the way that the real Nazis operated. You are assuming that Antifa are anarchists. Antifa has no purpose for themselves. It's not anarchy in the true sense as they are being controlled. I saw videos of a previous demonstration in Portland where dozens of privately funded buses brought them in - this has also happened in other cities. Someone is using them for a purpose. To create mayhem, to try to make right wing demonstrators look bad, to promote violence. They are pawns being used by those who control the left. They are the left's bully boys - the current version of Nazis.
The far-right has nothing in common with Nazis/fascists? They are pro-powerful state, pro-capitalist, often virulently antisemitic and opposed to equality for non-whites, LGBTQ+ people and, in some cases, women. These are pretty much the opposite positions to those taken by the vast majority of anti-fascists. Some anti-fascists are anarchists (of many different persuasions), some are socialists, social democrats, left liberals etc - anyone who is opposed to the ideology, hatred and violence of the far-right. Antifa more like the Nazis than fascists and Nazis? They are probably more like the anti-fascists who opposed and were murdered by the Nazis.

It is not possible to have a tolerant society if you allow the intolerance of the far-right. A paradox, for sure. Most people would rather avoid violence. Unfortunately far-right/fascist theory is intrinsically violent in that their goals usually involve groups of 'others' having to 'go away' or be subject to fewer rights. This is only possible through the threat or use of violence. Historical precedents exist.

You are aware that the strategy of groups like the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, American Guard etc involves busing people in from out of state for the purpose of inciting confrontation? That's what they do. They intentionally go to cities like Portland, often liberal cities, to cause trouble and when that happens people like Andy Ngo are on hand to post selectively edited clips that 'accidentally' omit to show the actions carried out by his fascist buddies that led to violence. You can find the unedited footage online if you care at all for accuracy and context - I mentioned @RespectableLaw previously.

If you want anti-fascists to go away then you have to find a way to get fascists to go away. It's that simple. History indicates what could happen if these groups become more powerful and, as they believe that the POTUS is on their side, things are not looking too good right now.

Political violence and terrorism in the United States is overwhelmingly the domain of the far-right according to the government's own statistics. The Government Accountability Office reports that between 2001 and 2016, so before the recent huge spike in far-right mass shootings, far-right terrorists killed 106 people. The far-left, well they killed.... 0 people. Up to date stats would be an even more damning indictment of far-right/fascist terrorism.

We need to stop the 'Antifa are the real problem' BS - they are the symptom of a genuinely more deadly problem. The real problem is fascists, their apologists, of which we see plenty online, and the owners of the media who are less threatened by the intolerance and violence of the far-right than they are by the desire for social equality and an economically fairer society that are, broadly speaking, goals for leftists.
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nutz99
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(Original post by hagbardceline)
The far-right has nothing in common with Nazis/fascists? They are pro-powerful state, pro-capitalist, often virulently antisemitic and opposed to equality for non-whites, LGBTQ+ people and, in some cases, women. These are pretty much the opposite positions to those taken by the vast majority of anti-fascists. Some anti-fascists are anarchists (of many different persuasions), some are socialists, social democrats, left liberals etc - anyone who is opposed to the ideology, hatred and violence of the far-right. Antifa more like the Nazis than fascists and Nazis? They are probably more like the anti-fascists who opposed and were murdered by the Nazis.

It is not possible to have a tolerant society if you allow the intolerance of the far-right. A paradox, for sure. Most people would rather avoid violence. Unfortunately far-right/fascist theory is intrinsically violent in that their goals usually involve groups of 'others' having to 'go away' or be subject to fewer rights. This is only possible through the threat or use of violence. Historical precedents exist.

You are aware that the strategy of groups like the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, American Guard etc involves busing people in from out of state for the purpose of inciting confrontation? That's what they do. They intentionally go to cities like Portland, often liberal cities, to cause trouble and when that happens people like Andy Ngo are on hand to post selectively edited clips that 'accidentally' omit to show the actions carried out by his fascist buddies that led to violence. You can find the unedited footage online if you care at all for accuracy and context - I mentioned @RespectableLaw previously.

If you want anti-fascists to go away then you have to find a way to get fascists to go away. It's that simple. History indicates what could happen if these groups become more powerful and, as they believe that the POTUS is on their side, things are not looking too good right now.

Political violence and terrorism in the United States is overwhelmingly the domain of the far-right according to the government's own statistics. The Government Accountability Office reports that between 2001 and 2016, so before the recent huge spike in far-right mass shootings, far-right terrorists killed 106 people. The far-left, well they killed.... 0 people. Up to date stats would be an even more damning indictment of far-right/fascist terrorism.

We need to stop the 'Antifa are the real problem' BS - they are the symptom of a genuinely more deadly problem. The real problem is fascists, their apologists, of which we see plenty online, and the owners of the media who are less threatened by the intolerance and violence of the far-right than they are by the desire for social equality and an economically fairer society that are, broadly speaking, goals for leftists.
I'm afraid you are completely off the mark with your description of the far-right. The far-right is now a collection of millions of people who are patriots and want to put their country first. They are not antisemitic or racist or anti women. They just don't want the left to ruin the country. They are not fascists.

It's the alt-right who may be closer to Nazis.

The so called statistics you have referred to basically call anyone a far right terrorist no matter where their allegiances lie. Blowing up government facilities - is that far right or far left? Muslim terrorism - is that far right or far left?

As for Antifa they are simply paid thugs. They pick out the weak and defenceless. People who are not in a group. People with children who can't defend themselves. I've even seen videos of Antifa attacking black people who wore USA t-shirts.

I'm afraid there is just no merit in your supposition.
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