UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit, under new plan Watch

UniversityFoggy
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#21
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#21
People think that leaving EU will be a catastrophe, if there really was a chance of that then people would not have been given the freedom to vote for it. We live in a system controlled by corporations whatever you voted for I doubt things will really change that much.
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The RAR
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Expect immigration to skyrocket like CRAZY, and I mean like REALLY crazy for the next two months lol
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paul514
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(Original post by Retired_Messiah)
What happens to EU people that have freedom-of-movemented into the country on the day? They won't have British citizenship so... ????
Sorry I don’t understand the point you are making
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artful_lounger
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Napp
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(Original post by UniversityFoggy)
People think that leaving EU will be a catastrophe, if there really was a chance of that then people would not have been given the freedom to vote for it.
Now what makes you say that?
We live in a system controlled by corporations whatever you voted for I doubt things will really change that much.
If that were true then why would the government very publicly and repeatedly be saying '**** business'?
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UniversityFoggy
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(Original post by Napp)
Now what makes you say that?

If that were true then why would the government very publicly and repeatedly be saying '**** business'?
money = power

average politician makes around 90 grand a year. And how much are these corporations making?
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Napp
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(Original post by UniversityFoggy)
money = power

average politician makes around 90 grand a year. And how much are these corporations making?
I’m not sure that addresses the point but either way.
I mean whilst business obviously has influence in the halls of Westminster and Whitehall to insinuate that there is a sinister cabal would seem somewhat spurious, no?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Retired_Messiah)
What happens to EU people that have freedom-of-movemented into the country on the day? They won't have British citizenship so... ????
Sorry I'm lost?
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Retired_Messiah)
What happens to EU people that have freedom-of-movemented into the country on the day? They won't have British citizenship so... ????
Nothing.

This is where the problems start.

Anyone “here” before 1 November will have the right to stay but employers, banks, the NHS will want evidence of status.

Millions of people haven’t applied for residence cards yet. This isn’t only EU nationals but non-EU foreigners whose status is dependent on their relationship to EU nationals.

Furthermore until 31 October, it is a lot easier to process applications because date of arrival is an irrelevance. After 1 November it won’t be enough to demonstrate you are here but you will need to show when you came.

Furthermore many people don’t have simple lives. They move backwards and forwards between countries. They live in two countries at once. They move in and out of relationships. Custody arrangements for children change.

The Government was working towards having a system in place by 2021. That has now been torn up.

Moreover the UK personnel are in the wrong countries. The consulates in European countries and the biometric centres there are not staffed to handle mass visa applications. Some of them don’t even having processing facilities. The number of non-EU citizens in say Copenhagen seeking British visas will be tiny compared with the number in Delhi or Beijing. So the staff are in Delhi and Beijing. Suddenly, there are going to be Danes and Swedes and Poles and Latvians wanting to apply in Copenhagen for visas to come to the Uk to work and study and form families.
Last edited by nulli tertius; 4 weeks ago
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ColinDent
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(Original post by snipecaik)
An easy way out of this mess would be to create a Northern-Ireland-only customs union, and yes, treat Northern Ireland differently, not just because it it is a solution to the brexit mess, but because Northern Ireland is different from Great Britain. It has entirely different laws, abortion; gay marriage; fox-hunting; education system etc, it's also culturally quite different, feeling more like a hybrid of Great Britain and Ireland, than anything like England. It should also be appreciated that the UK is a political union and Northern Ireland would still be aligned with the UK in foreign affairs, defence and regulation. As for the DUP, they only have 10 MPs out of a total of 650, I think it's fair to say that their influence is overplayed, and a majority in the House of Commons could easily be achieved by cross-party support, especially amongst Labour rebels threatened by the prospect of a no-deal brexit.
Say what you will, but this is the only conceivable solution to brexit, and I would suspect that a similar agreement would be reached in the event of a no-deal.
This would cause the return of the troubles in Northern Ireland.
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Zoqua
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
This sounds like a really bad idea to me.
Your not alone there.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Nothing.

This is where the problems start.

Anyone “here” before 1 November will have the right to stay but employers, banks, the NHS will want evidence of status.

Millions of people haven’t applied for residence cards yet. This isn’t only EU nationals but non-EU foreigners whose status is dependent on their relationship to EU nationals.

Furthermore until 31 October, it is a lot easier to process applications because date of arrival is an irrelevance. After 1 November it won’t be enough to demonstrate you are here but you will need to show when you came.

Furthermore many people don’t have simple lives. They move backwards and forwards between countries. They live in two countries at once. They move in and out of relationships. Custody arrangements for children change.

The Government was working towards having a system in place by 2021. That has now been torn up.

Moreover the UK personnel are in the wrong countries. The consulates in European countries and the biometric centres there are not staffed to handle mass visa applications. Some of them don’t even having processing facilities. The number of non-EU citizens in say Copenhagen seeking British visas will be tiny compared with the number in Delhi or Beijing. So the staff are in Delhi and Beijing. Suddenly, there are going to be Danes and Swedes and Poles and Latvians wanting to apply in Copenhagen for visas to come to the Uk to work and study and form families.
On a slight sidenote I see that we have been lied to over the actual amount of EU immigrants, particularly from the Eastern European bloc, were admitted into the country in the years leading up to the referendum.
Who'd have thought it!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49420730
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by shadowdweller)
This sounds like a really bad idea to me.
It's more a PR exercise aimed at Brexo-numpties than a real thing, judging by analysis of it in the media this morning, but if they do mean it, it will cause chaos and misery to tens or hundreds of thousands of decent people, for no gain other than to the egos of the rapacious charlatans who make up the current sham of a government.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by ColinDent)
On a slight sidenote I see that we have been lied to over the actual amount of EU immigrants, particularly from the Eastern European bloc, were admitted into the country in the years leading up to the referendum.
Who'd have thought it!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49420730
You haven't been lied to over EU immgrants. They have been miscounted. The number of non-EU immigrants has been overcounted to an equal amount.

I explained the problem in a post three years ago:-

"However as you say the immigration survey has very dubious data. The key problem is not recording immigrants, it is recording emigrants. If you have a Pole returning to Poland temporarily but indeterminately, it is very easy to count that Pole as a emigrant but the Pole may not regard himself as an emigrant and so if he returns he treats himself as already here and so fails to be recorded as a re-immigrant. Likewise the Brit going abroad for a short time, say TEFLing, may have no intention to be gone for a lengthy period and so is not "booked out" even though she may be absent for many years with her holiday in and out journeys rightly being being ignored."

Take another example. A Chinese student comes to the UK. At the end of his course he gets a job in finance in Singapore. In answer to the survey at Heathrow, he is asked for his occupation- banker. Why is he flying to China- holiday. He doesn't appear in the emigrant figures at all; he is a banker on holiday. But we are net one Chinese student immigrant up, because the Chinese student who originally came to the UK is never counted out.

We have undercounted the Polish and overcounted the Chinese immigrants.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
You haven't been lied to over EU immgrants. They have been miscounted. The number of non-EU immigrants has been overcounted to an equal amount.

I explained the problem in a post three years ago:-

"However as you say the immigration survey has very dubious data. The key problem is not recording immigrants, it is recording emigrants. If you have a Pole returning to Poland temporarily but indeterminately, it is very easy to count that Pole as a emigrant but the Pole may not regard himself as an emigrant and so if he returns he treats himself as already here and so fails to be recorded as a re-immigrant. Likewise the Brit going abroad for a short time, say TEFLing, may have no intention to be gone for a lengthy period and so is not "booked out" even though she may be absent for many years with her holiday in and out journeys rightly being being ignored."

Take another example. A Chinese student comes to the UK. At the end of his course he gets a job in finance in Singapore. In answer to the survey at Heathrow, he is asked for his occupation- banker. Why is he flying to China- holiday. He doesn't appear in the emigrant figures at all; he is a banker on holiday. But we are net one Chinese student immigrant up, because the Chinese student who originally came to the UK is never counted out.

We have undercounted the Polish and overcounted the Chinese immigrants.
Lied to, miscounted it all amounts to the same thing.
We have been saying for years that low skilled eastern European immigrants have been causing wages to stagnate and now it seems there were up to 16% more of them than they thought, did anyone listen, nope all we got was this kind of bs response.

https://youtu.be/yEReCN9gO14
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No Face
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An abysmal idea, the EU citizens who still have not received settled status by that date will be subjected to widespread discrimination regarding their healthcare, work and other rights. This is no longer about fears about the number of immigrants coming into the country, it is the welfare and access to public institutions such as the NHS which EU nationals may not be able to access after the 31st. There must be a system in place which is passed by the commons. If the system is passed by secondary legislation as Fascist Patel wishes to do, then there is no telling how far the Tories will seek to discriminate against existing and future EU migrants
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Life_Order
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(Original post by No Face)
An abysmal idea, the EU citizens who still have not received settled status by that date will be subjected to widespread discrimination regarding their healthcare, work and other rights. This is no longer about fears about the number of immigrants coming into the country, it is the welfare and access to public institutions such as the NHS which EU nationals may not be able to access after the 31st. There must be a system in place which is passed by the commons. If the system is passed by secondary legislation as Fascist Patel wishes to do, then there is no telling how far the Tories will seek to discriminate against existing and future EU migrants
regarding this I am really interested what EU citizens had to do to kept being healthcare covered. Do they get healthcare from the country they are originally from even if they have not lived there for years?
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paul514
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(Original post by ColinDent)
On a slight sidenote I see that we have been lied to over the actual amount of EU immigrants, particularly from the Eastern European bloc, were admitted into the country in the years leading up to the referendum.
Who'd have thought it!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49420730
The discrepancy between the official figures and the amount of tax codes issued to foreign nationals is enormous immigration is under estimated not over estimated.

You will see this in the 2021 census.
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paul514
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(Original post by Life_Order)
regarding this I am really interested what EU citizens had to do to kept being healthcare covered. Do they get healthcare from the country they are originally from even if they have not lived there for years?
People entitled to be here will still be entitled to healthcare.

Even those not entitled to be here will still be given emergency healthcare.
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Realitysreflexx
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You guy's do realise stopping freedom of movement isn't a one way street.

That means none of you can move to Europe to find jobs in case the British economy doesn't survive a hard brexit. You've de facto made your world smaller, confined to an island one might say.

As a German-American i find most of the comments on this thread, uneducated, uninformed and rather small minded. Scared immigrants might come here and take your unskilled labor picking fruit in the fields? Or might live off the dole! Yet you won't be upset with your own lazy countrymen who sit on their ass and have added no value EVER.

I have right to remain, and am one year from having a British degree. So i could careless if they stop freedom of movement, but it's simply silly to think that will improve your life quality.

And you've restricted yourselves to just one economy already contracting... 😂 😂 😂
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