UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit, under new plan Watch

Burton Bridge
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#41
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(Original post by ColinDent)
This would cause the return of the troubles in Northern Ireland.
Why do you think that Colin? The majority of NI voted remain, the majority NI people reject the DUP and other unionists, a NI CU like the Backstop would keep NI in the same boat it's currently in.

I don't see how that would return to the troubles, unless there is more anti EU movement in NI than the press are reporting, which would not surprise me
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ColinDent
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
You guy's do realise stopping freedom of movement isn't a one way street.

That means none of you can move to Europe to find jobs in case the British economy doesn't survive a hard brexit. You've de facto made your world smaller, confined to an island one might say.

As a German-American i find most of the comments on this thread, uneducated, uninformed and rather small minded. Scared immigrants might come here and take your unskilled labor picking fruit in the fields? Or might live off the dole! Yet you won't be upset with your own lazy countrymen who sit on their ass and have added no value EVER.

I have right to remain, and am one year from having a British degree. So i could careless if they stop freedom of movement, but it's simply silly to think that will improve your life quality.

And you've restricted yourselves to just one economy already contracting... 😂 😂 😂
Like the German one you mean?
Do you realise that people will still be able to work in other countries despite brexit, they will just need to have more qualifications.
As for your remarks on being scared about immigrants coming and taking our fruit picking jobs you are, I'm afraid, showing extreme prejudice, there are a huge amount of people in this country that have seen wages stagnate and in some cases shrink due to an enormous influx of low skilled workers that are happy to work for the minimum wage as for them it's a massive pay rise, people are living on the breadline because they have mortgages that pre-date all this happening.
It's very easy to cast these accusations when sitting in your ivory tower but there are 2 sides to every story.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Why do you think that Colin? The majority of NI voted remain, the majority NI people reject the DUP and other unionists, a NI CU like the Backstop would keep NI in the same boat it's currently in.

I don't see how that would return to the troubles, unless there is more anti EU movement in NI than the press are reporting, which would not surprise me
Because it doesn't need a massive movement in NI for this sort of thing to happen, just the few that have been itching for a return to the old ways, do you really think that they would just accept being separate from the rest of the UK?
I don't.
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Like the German one you mean?
Do you realise that people will still be able to work in other countries despite brexit, they will just need to have more qualifications.
As for your remarks on being scared about immigrants coming and taking our fruit picking jobs you are, I'm afraid, showing extreme prejudice, there are a huge amount of people in this country that have seen wages stagnate and in some cases shrink due to an enormous influx of low skilled workers that are happy to work for the minimum wage as for them it's a massive pay rise, people are living on the breadline because they have mortgages that pre-date all this happening.
It's very easy to cast these accusations when sitting in your ivory tower but there are 2 sides to every story.
It's also easy to know... That wages have been stagnating in all developed economies basically uniformly... Another reason the UK also has so low wages is due to the former strength of the £, once again an entirely British decision to devalue the currency by desiring an exit from the EU. Any loss of PPP is at large a fault of the british public. Simply saying immigrants are at fault is an easy populist cop out that doesn't take into account broader factors. Such as lack of unions, corporations having wage paying power. Also those in lower skilled work can hardly expect rising wages, that doesn't occur in any nation. A waiter is no better or worse off anywhere really, in a market economy your economic value determines your wage.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Why do you think that Colin? The majority of NI voted remain, the majority NI people reject the DUP and other unionists, a NI CU like the Backstop would keep NI in the same boat it's currently in.

I don't see how that would return to the troubles, unless there is more anti EU movement in NI than the press are reporting, which would not surprise me
It could only bring about a return to the Troubles if the loyalists decide to treat it as one provocation too far and have the desire and the capability to kick off against the nationalist population.

There have been no dire threats from the extreme ends of unionism.

I think most people realise that Arlene's opposition to a customs border in the North Sea is simply opportunistic.

Compare

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/b...-35450863.html

with

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45719580

Charging Corporation Tax at a rate 6.5% below the mainland and at the same rate as the Republic won't separate the UK but doing paperwork for manufactured goods will.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
It's also easy to know... That wages have been stagnating in all developed economies basically uniformly... Another reason the UK also has so low wages is due to the former strength of the £, once again an entirely British decision to devalue the currency by desiring an exit from the EU. Any loss of PPP is at large a fault of the british public. Simply saying immigrants are at fault is an easy populist cop out that doesn't take into account broader factors. Such as lack of unions, corporations having wage paying power. Also those in lower skilled work can hardly expect rising wages, that doesn't occur in any nation. A waiter is no better or worse off anywhere really, in a market economy your economic value determines your wage.
Wages were stagnating/decreasing way before the referendum.
I'm not suggesting immigration is the only reason, but uncontrolled it has exasperated it .
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Realitysreflexx
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#47
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Wages were stagnating/decreasing way before the referendum.
I'm not suggesting immigration is the only reason, but uncontrolled it has exasperated it .
I'll admit that yes it surely plays a role, it's not really voices like your's that i'm critical of. It's primarily some of the first comments in the thread that really irked me. They basically made it seem like ending freedom of movement was going to raise wages overnight and fix all not only UK but developed world issues lol. So i simply felt like pointing out that in fact British citizens were losing some significant rights also. For example if your dream was to be a highly skilled (bear with me) artisan baker in Paris...obviously that employment is in all reality of government qualifications list low skilled word. Yet an individuals dream maybe to become a baker in Paris...that dream is now pretty much dead. It shouldn't just be those with multiple degrees free to move and make life decisions in Europe in 2019 imo. Or what about moving to Switzerland to work? the highest salaries on this side of the Atlantic are paid there. That will become much more difficult for UK worker's also.
Last edited by Realitysreflexx; 4 weeks ago
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BlueIndigoViolet
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All the Europeans planning to move before October

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Fullofsurprises
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#49
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
You guy's do realise stopping freedom of movement isn't a one way street.

That means none of you can move to Europe to find jobs in case the British economy doesn't survive a hard brexit. You've de facto made your world smaller, confined to an island one might say.

As a German-American i find most of the comments on this thread, uneducated, uninformed and rather small minded. Scared immigrants might come here and take your unskilled labor picking fruit in the fields? Or might live off the dole! Yet you won't be upset with your own lazy countrymen who sit on their ass and have added no value EVER.

I have right to remain, and am one year from having a British degree. So i could careless if they stop freedom of movement, but it's simply silly to think that will improve your life quality.

And you've restricted yourselves to just one economy already contracting... 😂 😂 😂
Good comments. :five:

The truth is that Britain, like all major developed economies, requires a steady inward stream of both skilled and unskilled migrants to undertake a range of jobs that the locals simply don't want to and never will do now, ranging from crop picking to social care and construction to refuse sorting. There are also far more skilled jobs available in our economy (or were, until Brexit-idiocy came along as a real thing) than locals to fill them, which is why, for example, there are 300,000 highly skilled young French professionals working in London.
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Duane2501
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Good, this was the main reason most people voted to leave - tiny little island with limited space + millions of people coming to live from the outside = untenable position and inevitable backlash.
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No Face
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(Original post by Life_Order)
regarding this I am really interested what EU citizens had to do to kept being healthcare covered. Do they get healthcare from the country they are originally from even if they have not lived there for years?
There have been excerpts of the leaked document regarding the government's plan in the event of no deal which state that EU citizens will have to provide proof and evidence to retain their access to healthcare. The Department of health reassured the public that these will not be stringent though human rights organisations have doubted the veracity of these claims. If there is any scenario where EU citizens in the UK could be denied access we have to rethink the commitment to a Brexit at any costs drastically. Additionally, the same plan would see EU migrants entering the UK after a no deal having to pay for healthcare.
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username4540078
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Removing freedom of movement for Europeans will be reciprocated by the EU. It is one of the key reasons why I was so opposed to Brexit.

It is a shame so many British people regard a loss of personal liberty as a good thing.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Good comments. :five:

The truth is that Britain, like all major developed economies, requires a steady inward stream of both skilled and unskilled migrants to undertake a range of jobs that the locals simply don't want to and never will do now, ranging from crop picking to social care and construction to refuse sorting. There are also far more skilled jobs available in our economy (or were, until Brexit-idiocy came along as a real thing) than locals to fill them, which is why, for example, there are 300,000 highly skilled young French professionals working in London.
You are missing the point, free movement of people reduces the ability to control immigration.

As with every single remainer who has ever made the point you make, you are either naively or disingenuously missing the fact that control is not stop/reduce/increase immigration, all of which you can do should you gain the ability to control immigration. The ability to control immigration means freedom of movement must end due to the direction that the EU has taken over the last two decades. Should EEC of the 80's still exist then freedom of movement would not be so problematic to Britain.

Therefore the strawman you create a out British needing immigration is irrelevant because nobody that matters is stating otherwise.
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Realitysreflexx
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(Original post by Duane2501)
Good, this was the main reason most people voted to leave - tiny little island with limited space + millions of people coming to live from the outside = untenable position and inevitable backlash.
Don't know why i'm even replying but.......the Netherland's which is much smaller doesn't seem to complain...yet has a much higher population density. The only reason the UK is even crowded is because everyone and their mom needs to live just in England...plently of physical space, let's not kid ourselves. I highly doubt the North of England can complain of overpopulation. Scotland has what 6 million people in it?!? it's half the size of England lol.

You don't need to reply i honestly apologize for even commenting.
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Duane2501
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
Removing freedom of movement for Europeans will be reciprocated by the EU. It is one of the key reasons why I was so opposed to Brexit.

It is a shame so many British people regard a loss of personal liberty as a good thing.
The problem is in the main it only worked one way with far more people coming here than people leaving to go elsewhere. Unfettered immigration was never going to be a good thing.
You can still travel and settle elsewhere if you want, the process just takes a bit longer that's all. That's not a removal of personal freedom.
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Duane2501
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Don't know why i'm even replying but.......the Netherland's which is much smaller doesn't seem to complain...yet has a much higher population density. The only reason the UK is even crowded is because everyone and their mom needs to live just in England...plently of physical space, let's not kid ourselves. I highly doubt the North of England can complain of overpopulation. Scotland has what 6 million people in it?!? it's half the size of England lol.

You don't need to reply i honestly apologize for even commenting.
The 'space' you mention is our green space, open parklands, woodlands, areas of natural beauty etc.. They're already being depleted to build new housing. Do you want to eventually live in one big continuous city with no countryside?
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BlueIndigoViolet
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Glad I came over without having to get a visa due to freedom of movement of the EU - I'm here to stay :cool:

In all seriousness - ending freedom of movement was a genuine concern, but such an abrupt stop to all immigration announced this late, will not be met with warm reception in the EU who will take action and creates more uncertainty.
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Duane2501
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(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
Glad I came over without having to get a visa due to freedom of movement of the EU - I'm here to stay :cool:

In all seriousness - ending freedom of movement was a genuine concern, but such an abrupt stop to all immigration announced this late, will not be met with warm reception in the EU who will take action and creates more uncertainty.
I don't care what the EU does - we won't be part of it.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
I'll admit that yes it surely plays a role, it's not really voices like your's that i'm critical of. It's primarily some of the first comments in the thread that really irked me. They basically made it seem like ending freedom of movement was going to raise wages overnight and fix all not only UK but developed world issues lol. So i simply felt like pointing out that in fact British citizens were losing some significant rights also. For example if your dream was to be a highly skilled (bear with me) artisan baker in Paris...obviously that employment is in all reality of government qualifications list low skilled word. Yet an individuals dream maybe to become a baker in Paris...that dream is now pretty much dead. It shouldn't just be those with multiple degrees free to move and make life decisions in Europe in 2019 imo. Or what about moving to Switzerland to work? the highest salaries on this side of the Atlantic are paid there. That will become much more difficult for UK worker's also.
Why does ending free movement stop perfectly skilled britsh people gaining employment in Paris, should an employer in Paris wish to employ them?

Are the EU going to become xenophobic towards us overnight?

You are correct though there are a minority of deluded people who seem to blame immigration on everything, but there are minority of people who think all sorts mate, Queens. Reptile and the earth is flat for exteme examples
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 weeks ago
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Because it doesn't need a massive movement in NI for this sort of thing to happen, just the few that have been itching for a return to the old ways, do you really think that they would just accept being separate from the rest of the UK?
I don't.
So you believe that they are people looking for an excuse to reignite the flames, to be fair you may well be correct. However I think it's important to remember that is an excuse rarther than a genuine reason
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