UK to end freedom of movement for EU citizens on day one of Brexit, under new plan Watch

username4540078
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Duane2501)
The problem is in the main it only worked one way with far more people coming here than people leaving to go elsewhere. Unfettered immigration was never going to be a good thing.
That is entirely the fault of British workers for choosing not take advantage of the benefits of freedom of movement. Rather than using their initiative and drive to seek out better opportunities elsewhere, they'd rather wallow in their low paid warehouse jobs while blaming migrants for their crap pay.

You can still travel and settle elsewhere if you want, the process just takes a bit longer that's all. That's not a removal of personal freedom.
An increase in barriers to settling elsewhere i.e. the withdrawal is freedom of movement is a loss of personal freedom.
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999tigger
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Why does ending free movement stop perfectly skilled britsh people gaining employment in Paris, should an employer in Paris wish to employ them?

Are the EU going to become xenophobic towards us overnight?
Greater cost and regulation. You will need regulation and sponsorship. Will make it easier to employ someone inside the EU.
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Duane2501
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#63
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
That is entirely the fault of British workers for choosing not take advantage of the benefits of freedom of movement. Rather than using their initiative and drive to seek out better opportunities elsewhere, they'd rather wallow in their low paid warehouse jobs while blaming migrants for their crap pay.



An increase in barriers to settling elsewhere i.e. the withdrawal is freedom of movement is a loss of personal freedom.
Its the fault of British nationals wanting to stay in their own country(ies) rather than go elsewhere? Why shouldn't they want to stay in their own country? Just because they could leave doesn't mean they have to.
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Duane2501
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Why does ending free movement stop perfectly skilled britsh people gaining employment in Paris, should an employer in Paris wish to employ them?

Are the EU going to become xenophobic towards us overnight?

You are correct though there are a minority of deluded people who seem to blame immigration on everything, but there are minority of people who think all sorts mate, Queens. Reptile and the earth is flat for exteme examples
This. The only thing that will change is the procedure will become slightly longer. Skilled workers or people coming to fill a genuine need will still be allowed, just not every man and his dog without so much as a by your leave.

Immigration isn't to blame for everything, but it was definitely one of the main reasons people voted leave.
Last edited by Duane2501; 3 weeks ago
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Realitysreflexx
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#65
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Why does ending free movement stop perfectly skilled britsh people gaining employment in Paris, should an employer in Paris wish to employ them?

Are the EU going to become xenophobic towards us overnight?

You are correct though there are a minority of deluded people who seem to blame immigration on everything, but there are minority of people who think all sorts mate, Queens. Reptile and the earth is flat for exteme examples
Just guess it's difficult to wrap my head around borders in Europe. I've honestly only ever grown up being a European citizen and a US citizen, two systems which both have freedom of movement. (I know it's not the same thing). I'm simply just excusing why i'm pretty sad that it's ending.
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Burton Bridge
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#66
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Greater cost and regulation. You will need regulation and sponsorship. Will make it easier to employ someone inside the EU.
No it won't make it easier, I never suggested it would or I don't believe anyone else did

We will be free to make our own immigration policy as we are already doing as we speak, the EU may wish to act against the interests of its member by making immigration harder for non members, that's up to them. I do agree it's highly likely to because the EU are not acting in the best interests of its own members at all. Its the EU that's been acting in this way that caused Brexit and will probably cause an Irish boarder also, we wont erect one!

Again I repeat if the EEC/EU had not changed so much this would not of become a problem for us. There is no trade block I am aware of that insists in open boarders,
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Burton Bridge
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#67
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(Original post by Realitysreflexx)
Just guess it's difficult to wrap my head around borders in Europe. I've honestly only ever grown up being a European citizen and a US citizen, two systems which both have freedom of movement. (I know it's not the same thing). I'm simply just excusing why i'm pretty sad that it's ending.
Fair enough mate, however it was not working for all. I agree to a point, if the federalism in the EU had not gained so much momentum then we would still have this freedom.
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999tigger
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#68
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
No it won't make it easier, I never suggested it would or I don't believe anyone else did

We will be free to make our own immigration policy as we are already doing as we speak, the EU may wish to act against the interests of its member by making immigration harder for non members, that's up to them. I do agree it's highly likely to because the EU are not acting in the best interests of its own members at all. Its the EU that's been acting in this way that caused Brexit and will probably cause an Irish boarder also, we wont erect one!

Again I repeat if the EEC/EU had not changed so much this would not of become a problem for us. There is no trade block I am aware of that insists in open boarders,
You are misguided. It isnt acting against the interests of its own members its acting to protect them. By default if you arent a member of a club then you cant expect to enjoy the benefits. The EU is more than just a trade block.
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username4540078
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#69
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(Original post by Duane2501)
Its the fault of British nationals wanting to stay in their own country(ies) rather than go elsewhere? Why shouldn't they want to stay in their own country? Just because they could leave doesn't mean they have to.
That is not what I said. However, if you come from say a poor Northern town like myself, you either move or accept limited job opportunities and a low standard of living. This isn't going to change once we leave the EU and Brexit supporters are going to find themselves very disappointed.
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Andrew97
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#70
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Well this has been an interesting read, with a horrendous misuse of the word facist.
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Duane2501
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#71
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
That is not what I said. However, if you come from say a poor Northern town like myself, you either move or accept limited job opportunities and a low standard of living. This isn't going to change once we leave the EU and Brexit supporters are going to find themselves very disappointed.
I also come from a poor Northern town, and in a nutshell you did actually say they should move instead of moaning. You're right people will still have to move for work of course, but moving within the UK is very different to moving to a different country.
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Maid Marian
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#72
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Thank goodness, about time too.
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Burton Bridge
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#73
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(Original post by 999tigger)
You are misguided. It isnt acting against the interests of its own members its acting to protect them. By default if you arent a member of a club then you cant expect to enjoy the benefits. The EU is more than just a trade block.

It is that's right, dispite not having a mandate for being anything more than a trading block. Im happy to remove ourselves from the benefits of paying billions a year more than we get back.

I don't believe it's in the best interest of its members to make No Deal more likely, particularly in the case of Ireland and why we speak of Ireland I think it's even more unlikely to be in the interest of Ireland to have a hard border, which the EU is likely to impose
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 3 weeks ago
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nulli tertius
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#74
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
It is that's right, dispite not having a mandate for being anything more than a trading block. Im happy to remove ourselves from the benefits of paying billions a year more than we get back
Of course it had a mandate for more than being a trading block. “Ever closer union” was in the Treaty of Rome from 1956. Each subsequent treaty change has been ratified by the democratic governments of each member state.
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ColinDent
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#75
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
So you believe that they are people looking for an excuse to reignite the flames, to be fair you may well be correct. However I think it's important to remember that is an excuse rarther than a genuine reason
I think there are many people that would love to reignite the old troubles, but yes it would only be an excuse but enough of one for the likes of the UVF.
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Burton Bridge
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#76
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Of course it had a mandate for more than being a trading block. “Ever closer union” was in the Treaty of Rome from 1956. Each subsequent treaty change has been ratified by the democratic governments of each member state.
We joined in 1973 a secret document was penned to shield the public from the truth about what EEC membership would mean, in 1992 we were signed to further control of the EU with no say.

The britsh public have never and will never give a mandate for Brussels being a superior political power to Westminster. The British public have a mandate for a trading block and that's the only mandate they have.
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Burton Bridge
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#77
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(Original post by ColinDent)
I think there are many people that would love to reignite the old troubles, but yes it would only be an excuse but enough of one for the likes of the UVF.
You may be correct, however I'm uneasy about allowing some terrorists hold the UK to ransom.
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ColinDent
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#78
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
You may be correct, however I'm uneasy about allowing some terrorists hold the UK to ransom.
Me too, but that's the card the EU and remainers are playing.
Personally I see no reason and more importantly no desire on either side ( France excepted) to put up a hard border in Ireland, Macron can kick and scream as much as he likes but it ain't gonna happen.
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Fullofsurprises
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#79
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Me too, but that's the card the EU and remainers are playing.
Personally I see no reason and more importantly no desire on either side ( France excepted) to put up a hard border in Ireland, Macron can kick and scream as much as he likes but it ain't gonna happen.
The Irish government spokesman stated clearly on R4 news the other morning that they (the Irish government) have no intention of implementing a hard border, come what may, including a Hard Brexit. So unless the EU plan to airdrop border installations in against the will of the Irish government, the whole thing does indeed have an element of farce to it. Since Dublin won't be implementing a hard border, it's difficult to see what on earth the DUP are so bothered about, for one thing, and quite why the Backstop is such an issue.
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L i b
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#80
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(Original post by Life_Order)
I don't know how they will do this without breaking the Good Friday Agreement (aka no hard border in Ireland).

Say they end "Freedom of Movement" but not for the Republic of Ireland-Northern Ireland border.

Now an EU citizen comes to Dublin as they are allowed to do so, then drives to Belfast and from there gets to Great Britain via ship.

You could say "Great Britain can just ask for the ID of people coming from Northern Ireland" - that would be treating Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the UK, which the government and the DUP don't want.

So good luck with ending freedom of movement.
You do realise that nationals of lots of countries, not just the EU, can fly into the UK either without a visa, or on a tourist visa that is pretty easy to obtain, yeah?

I would hope and expect that, after Brexit, visa-free travel to the UK for nationals of EU countries continues - just as it does for, say, a Canadian citizen or a citizen of Panama. That's not what 'free movement' means. If someone enters the UK illegally, overstays the period they are allowed to be in the UK or breaks the conditions of their being in the UK, then that's a matter for enforcement within the country, not at the border.
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