Pension age should rise to 75 a Tory think tank has claimed
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Original post by Duane2501
Let's be honest, none of the mainstream political parties give a damn about normal people. We have to vote for what we think is the lesser of the evils and that's that.
This is the case and has been the case for decades now. My point is Tories which this think tank is funded by don't believe in high taxation, group responsibility policy by tradition or principal.
You are quite correct in pointing out Labour carried on the same failed and damaging policies in the Blair and brown years. As you correctly say we have to vote for the lesser of two evils more often than not.
Original post by Tootles
They should work longer. When retirement age was set at 65 in 1925, the average life expectancy was about 60. Now the average life expectancy is 80, so the retirement age should be raised accordingly. Retirement was never meant as "you've worked for a few decades, now you can just go on holidays and watch soaps for a couple of decades", it was meant as "you're not capable of working any more because you're old and frail". Most people are capable of working far longer than they were, so there's no reason why they shouldn't.
Haha let's see if you hold the same view when you're 75 and still working. I'm betting you'll have changed your tune.
If the Gov were to claim the hundreds of millions in unpaid and dodged taxes of large businesses like Starbucks or Google then maybe we could fund pensions better. Or if the £350 mill a week isn't going to the NHS then maybe it can go to pensions.
It seems incredibly unfair, but the thing is, with so many people now realistically able to expect to live until 100, the country can't support everyone for 35+ years. That's almost as long as your working career to pay NI towards your pension!
I think everyone should be paying into a private pension as well, so if they wish to retire a little earlier, they have the ability to do so, and then claim state pension when it's time.
The only way to bring it earlier is to increase everyone's NI contributions earlier in life, which I don't think we would be happy with, either.
I think everyone should be paying into a private pension as well, so if they wish to retire a little earlier, they have the ability to do so, and then claim state pension when it's time.
The only way to bring it earlier is to increase everyone's NI contributions earlier in life, which I don't think we would be happy with, either.
Original post by Reue
Defined contribution schemes have gotten much better under the Conservative government.
It sounds like you’re trying to compare things with defined benefit pensions which, while better, have always been voluntary from companies and not offered by many for decades.
If youre not going to keep the discussion specifically on pensions instead of making off-topic rants then I have nothing more to discuss.
It sounds like you’re trying to compare things with defined benefit pensions which, while better, have always been voluntary from companies and not offered by many for decades.
If youre not going to keep the discussion specifically on pensions instead of making off-topic rants then I have nothing more to discuss.
I am keeping this on topic in actual fact I refused to deviate away from it others tried, if you read above.
Defined pension schemes are awful and the WPPS is a DC. My point when you argued against me at first was they are flawed seriously and help those richer mors than those poorer and so far apart from creating a strawman about my political beliefs you have not put anything down to convince me otherwise.
What we should be asking is why at a time when corporates and the upper classes are getting richer and richer are we allowing them to abolish good pension schemes for the people that help them, their employees which burdens the taxpayer and gifts money to the financial sector, which is the point I started from before you took me round and round on a wild goose chase.
I'm done
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Burton Bridge
It's really not that easy, the sheer amount of money you need to save in so called 'pension plans' like nest for example is totally unattainable for the average person, when you take into account the student debt, rising cost of housing and removal of state owned housing. The task which was already difficult for those in their 40/50's a whole mountain higher for the millennials.
This seemed to upset the residents tories but its true
This seemed to upset the residents tories but its true
Is it?
On an average persons wage, student loan repayments would be £60 of a monthly £2,250 gross salary. 8% personal pension contribution on top would take those things to £200, less than 10% of salary. Under Nest, it would be less than that. Hardly unattainable. In fact the drop out rate from auto enrollment has been surprisingly low, no?
Housing costs are rising more slowly that wages at the moment - rent inflation is 1% right now.
It's pretty demonstrably not true. Perhaps it is for you, but not for millennials generally.
Original post by Duane2501
Haha let's see if you hold the same view when you're 75 and still working. I'm betting you'll have changed your tune.
I aim to die with my boots on. I enjoy my work very much and can't imagine not doing it.
Original post by Burton Bridge
Pension credit is for those who have already reached retirement age so is irrelevant.
Irrelevant on a thread about retirement age? Ok.
Original post by Burton Bridge
I am keeping this on topic in actual fact I refused to deviate away from it others tried, if you read above.
Defined pension schemes are awful and the WPPS is a my point when you argued against me at first and so far apart from creating a strawman about my political beliefs you have not put anything down to convince me otherwise.
What we should be asking is why at a time when corporates and the upper classes are getting richer and richer are we allowing them to abolish good pension schemes for the people that help them, their employees which burdens the taxpayer and gifts money to the financial sector, which is the point I started from before you took me round and round on a wild goose chase.
I'm done
Defined pension schemes are awful and the WPPS is a my point when you argued against me at first and so far apart from creating a strawman about my political beliefs you have not put anything down to convince me otherwise.
What we should be asking is why at a time when corporates and the upper classes are getting richer and richer are we allowing them to abolish good pension schemes for the people that help them, their employees which burdens the taxpayer and gifts money to the financial sector, which is the point I started from before you took me round and round on a wild goose chase.
I'm done
I think our definition of ‘awful’ differs greatly. It’s clear I can’t change your opinion but you are mistaken on the facts of how a definition contribution pension scheme works and the financial benefits of having one.
I see others have already corrected you on several points previously, perhaps it suggests you ought to go and do your own research on the topic?
My initial point was, and remains, that for the majority of employees in this country it is financially beneficial to their situation to contribute to a private pension and that doing so will allow them to support their own retirement regardless of state pension.
Original post by Quady
Irrelevant on a thread about retirement age? Ok.
No to the debate we was having, and the pint you highlighted..
You are being disingenuous
"Tory think tank" - why am I not surprised? 
Probably going to be in my afterlife when I start getting my pension
Probably going to be in my afterlife when I start getting my pension
Original post by Reue
I think our definition of ‘awful’ differs greatly. It’s clear I can’t change your opinion but you are mistaken on the facts of how a definition contribution pension scheme works and the financial benefits of having one.
I see others have already corrected you on several points previously, perhaps it suggests you ought to go and do your own research on the topic?
My initial point was, and remains, that for the majority of employees in this country it is financially beneficial to their situation to contribute to a private pension and that doing so will allow them to support their own retirement regardless of state pension.
I see others have already corrected you on several points previously, perhaps it suggests you ought to go and do your own research on the topic?
My initial point was, and remains, that for the majority of employees in this country it is financially beneficial to their situation to contribute to a private pension and that doing so will allow them to support their own retirement regardless of state pension.
I've been corrected on one point, that's not several!
Show me a person who thinks they are never wrong and I'll show you and deluded fool
Show me a person who cannot admit he is wrong and I'll show you a bigot!
I admitted I did not know about that the tax benifits available for some who earn below 12500, and the devil will be in the detail with that and detail I still don't know.
For balance you are certainly correct that you are better off paying into any type of savings which will generate the most possible for you later in life, you are also better staying in a workplace pension scheme than opting out of it. But again that's irrelevant because I have never a said otherwise.
Original post by BlueIndigoViolet
"Tory think tank" - why am I not surprised?
Probably going to be in my afterlife when I start getting my pension
Probably going to be in my afterlife when I start getting my pension
Exactly - prsom
I take it life has improved over the last five years?
No chance of another break down? No chance of dementia?
(Original post by Tootles)
I have an IT honours degree, which I ended up only getting a 3rd on because I had a nervous breakdown in my final year (and was given no assistance with it), and no professional experience. So nowhere in IT will take me, and nowhere else will take me (along the lines of I have no experience, am overqualified, underqualified, or they just don't like my face). You have a job, which for the time being is keeping you afloat. I have no job and no discernible way to get one right now, unless I've been missing something. I live with my parents at the age of twenty-four and am wondering if I'll ever be able to afford to get so much as a cardboard box of my own.
No chance of another break down? No chance of dementia?
(Original post by Tootles)
I have an IT honours degree, which I ended up only getting a 3rd on because I had a nervous breakdown in my final year (and was given no assistance with it), and no professional experience. So nowhere in IT will take me, and nowhere else will take me (along the lines of I have no experience, am overqualified, underqualified, or they just don't like my face). You have a job, which for the time being is keeping you afloat. I have no job and no discernible way to get one right now, unless I've been missing something. I live with my parents at the age of twenty-four and am wondering if I'll ever be able to afford to get so much as a cardboard box of my own.
Original post by Tootles
I aim to die with my boots on. I enjoy my work very much and can't imagine not doing it.
Original post by Quady
I take it life has improved over the last five years?
No chance of another break down? No chance of dementia?
(Original post by Tootles)
I have an IT honours degree, which I ended up only getting a 3rd on because I had a nervous breakdown in my final year (and was given no assistance with it), and no professional experience. So nowhere in IT will take me, and nowhere else will take me (along the lines of I have no experience, am overqualified, underqualified, or they just don't like my face). You have a job, which for the time being is keeping you afloat. I have no job and no discernible way to get one right now, unless I've been missing something. I live with my parents at the age of twenty-four and am wondering if I'll ever be able to afford to get so much as a cardboard box of my own.
No chance of another break down? No chance of dementia?
(Original post by Tootles)
I have an IT honours degree, which I ended up only getting a 3rd on because I had a nervous breakdown in my final year (and was given no assistance with it), and no professional experience. So nowhere in IT will take me, and nowhere else will take me (along the lines of I have no experience, am overqualified, underqualified, or they just don't like my face). You have a job, which for the time being is keeping you afloat. I have no job and no discernible way to get one right now, unless I've been missing something. I live with my parents at the age of twenty-four and am wondering if I'll ever be able to afford to get so much as a cardboard box of my own.
Five years is a long time.
Edit: one of the many things that's happened in the last five years is my diagnosis of autism - and autistics don't get dementia.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by the beer
Rob a Tory?
the best pension a young person can get these days is to have children, treat them well, and raise them to take care of you when your older.
In the scheme of history, pensions will be seen as a blip. they were a great thing that existed for a few generations, but quickly became outdated. They work great if you have a reasonably young population, with old people who don't live to long and plenty of people still relying on their family. But they are a nightmare for a society that has less and less young people, more and more older people living longer and as a result suffering more medical conditions, and less and less old people relying on their families, and depending on the state instead.
People act like the idea of old people reciving a pension is a fact of history though. Its not. Old people, when they couldn't work any longer but were still alive, were burdens and depedants on their younger family, and that's how it was for most of our history. The idea that old people can live, independant from their family, and in some cases remain just as wealthy and have just as much money as they had when they were still working, is a fleeting conception that's only existed in recent history, and seems like it will die out again soon.
It would help though if some retirees didn't take the piss. I know quite a few who will retire at 55, on the exact same wages(near enough) that they earned whilst working. They veiw this as an entirely normal state of affairs.. and think they are actually doing a good thing for the younger generations because they are not a burden on them! What they don't see is that their hoarding of wealth and assets that has lead to them being able to maintain their income, despite not generating any wealth or being productive at all, for 35+ years is part of the reason why the young now are the first generation in centuries to earn less then their parents and see a fall in home ownership..
For me and my wife we will take a mixed approach from both of our backgrounds, Asian and English.. we have our savings, investments and private pensions.. but we will also be heavily investing and relying on our children, in the Chinese tradition, and fully expect them to take care of us when we are older. Its a pay-off though because the balance to that is that parents in Chinese culture must give far more financial support and wealth when their children are younger, but expect far more back when they are older. No chance I will be relying on a state-pension though.. I doubt it will even exist in the 50 years until I am able to claim it.
In the scheme of history, pensions will be seen as a blip. they were a great thing that existed for a few generations, but quickly became outdated. They work great if you have a reasonably young population, with old people who don't live to long and plenty of people still relying on their family. But they are a nightmare for a society that has less and less young people, more and more older people living longer and as a result suffering more medical conditions, and less and less old people relying on their families, and depending on the state instead.
People act like the idea of old people reciving a pension is a fact of history though. Its not. Old people, when they couldn't work any longer but were still alive, were burdens and depedants on their younger family, and that's how it was for most of our history. The idea that old people can live, independant from their family, and in some cases remain just as wealthy and have just as much money as they had when they were still working, is a fleeting conception that's only existed in recent history, and seems like it will die out again soon.
It would help though if some retirees didn't take the piss. I know quite a few who will retire at 55, on the exact same wages(near enough) that they earned whilst working. They veiw this as an entirely normal state of affairs.. and think they are actually doing a good thing for the younger generations because they are not a burden on them! What they don't see is that their hoarding of wealth and assets that has lead to them being able to maintain their income, despite not generating any wealth or being productive at all, for 35+ years is part of the reason why the young now are the first generation in centuries to earn less then their parents and see a fall in home ownership..
For me and my wife we will take a mixed approach from both of our backgrounds, Asian and English.. we have our savings, investments and private pensions.. but we will also be heavily investing and relying on our children, in the Chinese tradition, and fully expect them to take care of us when we are older. Its a pay-off though because the balance to that is that parents in Chinese culture must give far more financial support and wealth when their children are younger, but expect far more back when they are older. No chance I will be relying on a state-pension though.. I doubt it will even exist in the 50 years until I am able to claim it.
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