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Andrew97
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B1511 - Vagrancy Bill 2019, TSR Government




An Act to remove archaic laws that only serve to make lives of homeless people worse.


BE IT ENACTED by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:


PART I.
REPEAL OF VAGRANCY LEGISLATION

1. Vagrancy
(1) Removes The Vagrancy Act 1824 Sections 3-4.
(2) Removes The Licensing Act 1872 Section 12.
(3) Inserts into The Theft Act 1968 Section 5-
(6) Food items will not be considered to belong to a person if the original owner appears to have abandoned it.

PART II.
COMMENCEMENT, SHORT TITLE AND EXTENT

2 Commencement
(1) This Act shall come into force on royal assent

3 Short Title
(1) This Act may be cited as the Vagrancy Act 2019

4 Devolution
(1) This Act extends to Great Britain and Northern Ireland


Notes
Credit for this bill goes to the TSR Government of October 2017
1: Removes an archaic law that makes homelessness illegal. The original Act does this by making begging and sleeping in a public place illegal. In the last 10 years, this law has been used more and more to harass homeless people as down to looking homeless is often considered begging by the police who are under pressure to move homeless people along. Harassing begging would remain illegal under other Acts.

2: Removes the crime of being drunk in public. Note that drunk and disorderly would remain a crime under the Criminal Justice Act 1967. The charge of drunk in public is only now used to move people along who have had a drink and this is another law that is used predominantly against homeless people who are not being disorderly.

3. Changes the laws regarding theft so that food that has been abandoned (discarded, meaning that the original owner has no further use for the item) cannot be considered property. This essentially makes it legal to remove food from supermarket bins while also removing the ability for people who become ill from eating that food to sue the shop in question as it no longer the position of the original owner.
Last edited by CatusStarbright; 4 weeks ago
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Saracen's Fez
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Not sure what's happened to the formatting but I support this bill to repeal Victorian and pre-Victorian laws on homelessness, as well as to introduce a more sensible approach to food abandoned in bins.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
Not sure what's happened to the formatting but I support this bill to repeal Victorian and pre-Victorian laws on homelessness, as well as to introduce a more sensible approach to food abandoned in bins.
Its a new feature, Its called "what you paste in the box won't be what comes out" Adds a scattergun element to MHOC.
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Andrew97
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Right. I've spent 20 minutes fixing the formatting, if anybody complains ill hunt you down with knives and eject you from the house.
Last edited by Andrew97; 4 weeks ago
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Saracen's Fez
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Its a new feature, Its called "what you paste in the box won't be what comes out" Adds a scattergun element to MHOC.
You are editing in BBCode mode, right?
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Connor27
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Nay - begging in particular should be illegal because it promotes a toxic shame culture instead of promoting the proper channel of donating via homeless charities or encouraging sale of things like the big issue.
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LiberOfLondon
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Aye - I see no reason to jail people because of their lifestyle or because they have taken a legal substance.
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Connor27)
Nay - begging in particular should be illegal because it promotes a toxic shame culture instead of promoting the proper channel of donating via homeless charities or encouraging sale of things like the big issue.
Very Libertarian of you…
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barnetlad
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Aye
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shadowdweller
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Strong aye from me.
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Connor27
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Very Libertarian of you…
I’m not a cultural degenerate “libertarian” and haven’t been for years.
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yaseen1000
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Nay - begging should still be illegal
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The Mogg
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Nay, as Connor illustrated begging fuels shame culture, and that instead we should be promoting donation to homeless charities. Although the bill mentions harassing begging will remain illegal, it would just be much easier to keep begging illegal all together.
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Saracen's Fez
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(Original post by The Mogg)
Nay, as Connor illustrated begging fuels shame culture, and that instead we should be promoting donation to homeless charities. Although the bill mentions harassing begging will remain illegal, it would just be much easier to keep begging illegal all together.
Why? IMO there's a significant difference between passively begging for money and actively going up to people and asking for it. The first is harmless to passers-by and I don't see any reason why it should be illegal.
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The Mogg
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(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
Why? IMO there's a significant difference between passively begging for money and actively going up to people and asking for it. The first is harmless to passers-by and I don't see any reason why it should be illegal.
I just think that charity is a much more effective way of helping the homeless and that the government should promote that instead. Again, begging fuels shame culture which can make life harder for homeless people if people act on the negative feelings they have for beggars.
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Connor27)
I’m not a cultural degenerate “libertarian” and haven’t been for years.
Define ”degenerate”
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04MR17
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(Original post by The Mogg)
I just think that charity is a much more effective way of helping the homeless and that the government should promote that instead. Again, begging fuels shame culture which can make life harder for homeless people if people act on the negative feelings they have for beggars.
How exactly would you propose we do that?
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Joleee
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prison is expensive and should not be used as a shelter for homeless people or those with mental illness, even though it is commonly used that way. we should reserve the limited prison space we have for those who commit real harm - and by harm i reckon not irritation or what we deem morally reprehensible.

criminalising homelessness does not prevent homelessness and homeless people are not worried about breaking the law - said any homeless person who's ever stolen or bought/used drugs. we can't 'shame' a homeless person into becoming a law-abiding citizen - not when the choice is between their own survival and death. many homeless people commit crimes specifically for the purposes of going to prison as prison provides food and a warm bed, thus prison does not act as a punishment or a deterrent. personally i would rather spend what money we do have on education and keeping kids in school.
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Rakas21
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Mr Speaker, i shall be voting against this bill.

1) Allowing homeless people not to be arrested does not solve the initial cause of why they are homeless and weakens police powers to remove these people. Begging i admit should be legal (if somebody wants to chuck a quid on the floor, that should not be an offense on public property).

Instead of making being homeless legal (especially when these people are likely to have drink and drunk problems), you should use part of the infrastructure cheque i wrote to build temporary accommodation for these people and then use police powers to forcibly move them to these premises where they can be forced to go cold turkey and have an address with which to claim welfare and improve their lives.

The liberal attitude in this bill to simply leaving them on the streets is yet another symbol of societal degeneration and the lack of morality at the heart of this government.

2) While i am somewhat sympathetic to removing this since the crime of being drunk and disorderly still remains i am not convinced by your argument in the notes as it could still be of some use.

I would likely defer to the former Justice Secretary on this point.

3) While i have no real objection to people taking a packet of bread from a public bin or a landfill site, the fact here is that supermarket bins for example are private property (probably also sitting on private property). While the police should probably not charge people if indeed the items are just headed to landfill or recycling, it is also possible that people like Tesco are being paid for those items to at least recoup some costs. A very murky grey area and not one which you have adequately legislated for in this bill.

A superior solution is to insert a provision highlighting that only bins on public property may be exempt.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
You are editing in BBCode mode, right?
I have been yes, looks like i've conquered TSR formatting however.
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