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HELP!!! Whats the difference between an adjective and a pre modifier adjective???

I've tried finding this out online, but I can't grasp the difference between them if there is any! If there is a difference please could you outline them in it's most simplistic of forms, thanks!
Would appreciate help rn :smile:
:confused:
plz
oh well
Stop bumping your thread, you don't need to bump more than once a day unless it's dropped off the first page of the forum you posted it in. Bumping it 4 times in 13 minutes is not going to help it get noticed, and might well put people off from helping you because of your obvious impatience.

That said, this might help: https://www.learngrammar.net/english-grammar/modifiers
Original post by artful_lounger
Stop bumping your thread, you don't need to bump more than once a day unless it's dropped off the first page of the forum you postedT it in. Bumping it 4 times in 13 minutes is not going to help it get noticed, and might well put people off from helping you because of your obvious impatience.

That said, this might help: https://www.learngrammar.net/english-grammar/modifiers

Thank you!
Original post by ReusCrispies
I've tried finding this out online, but I can't grasp the difference between them if there is any! If there is a difference please could you outline them in it's most simplistic of forms, thanks!

Let's determine what the terms mean first. A modifier is a word that modifies the subject of the phrase (e.g. in 'the man drank the hot tea' the adjective 'hot' is a modifier as it changes our view of the tea, which is the 'head').

A modifier can be an adjective or it can be an adverb. The word 'swiftly' in 'the man fell into the swiftly flowing river' is an adverb and a modifier So, not all modifiers are adjectives. That is difference number one.

A premodifier is a modifier that comes before the head (like 'red' or 'swiftly' above). A postmodifier comes after the head (like 'galore' in the statement 'there was whisky galore'). Adjectival postmodifiers are more common in, say, French than they are in English (e.g. 'le chapeau rouge'). As we have seen, an adjective may come before or after the head and so not all adjectives are, therefore, premodifiers.

You should now be able to identify the differences.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 8
Original post by Good bloke
A modifier can be an adjective or it can be an adverb.


Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't determiners also modifiers (e.g. articles)?
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Tolgarda
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't determiners also modifiers (e.g. articles)?

I believe not. A determiner does not change our fundamental view of the head; it merely clarifies something we need to know about identity, and would be in addition to any modifiers. In addition, modifiers are only possible with heads that are nouns, and always precede the noun and any modifiers.

There are several types of determiner and they tell us something that a modifier cannot.

Articles (a, an, the): show whether we are speaking generally, or specifically (e.g. A cat is a good pet, meaning cats generally make good pets, or I feed my cat with the best brand of catfood, meaning a specific cat food preparation))

Demonstratives (this, that, these, those): to which noun do I refer (e.g. I fed this cat - as opposed to another one that might have been around at the time)

Quantifiers (all, few, many, some): how many of the nouns were affected (e.g. I fed all the cats)

Possessives (your, its, his, mine): whose nouns are they (e.g. I fed your cat)

Distributives (each, any, either, neither): help to consider members of a group separately (e.g. Each of the cats left after being fed)

Interrogatives (which, what, whose): used to question the identity of the noun (e.g. Whose cat did you feed?)

A determiner sets the head in its context, while a modifier helps to define the head.
Original post by Good bloke
I believe not. A determiner does not change our fundamental view of the head; it merely clarifies something we need to know about identity, and would be in addition to any modifiers. In addition, modifiers are only possible with heads that are nouns, and always precede the noun and any modifiers.

There are several types of determiner and they tell us something that a modifier cannot.

Articles (a, an, the): show whether we are speaking generally, or specifically (e.g. A cat is a good pet, meaning cats generally make good pets, or I feed my cat with the best brand of catfood, meaning a specific cat food preparation))

Demonstratives (this, that, these, those): to which noun do I refer (e.g. I fed this cat - as opposed to another one that might have been around at the time)

Quantifiers (all, few, many, some): how many of the nouns were affected (e.g. I fed all the cats)

Possessives (your, its, his, mine): whose nouns are they (e.g. I fed your cat)

Distributives (each, any, either, neither): help to consider members of a group separately (e.g. Each of the cats left after being fed)

Interrogatives (which, what, whose): used to question the identity of the noun (e.g. Whose cat did you feed?)

A determiner sets the head in its context, while a modifier helps to define the head.

If a determiner sets a head in context, which is something the head would not be able to do per se, it is still modifying the head. It changes it somehow. I've never seen a determiner not being classed as a modifier.

Just because a determiner can only pre-modify a substantive, doesn't mean it isn't a modifier. An adverbial can only modify a verb.

Most online sources classify a determiner as a modifier.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Tolgarda
If a determiner sets a head in context, which is something the head would not be able to do per se, a determiner is still modifying the head. It changes it somehow. I've never seen a determiner being its own word cass.

Just because a determiner can only pre-modify a substantive, doesn't mean it isn't a modifier. An adverbial can only modify a verb.

Most online sources classify a determiner as a modifier.

I have not seen (or looked for) a source, so you surpise me. Perhaps you can link me. But I am happy to say I could be wrong. However, a determiner does not modify the head, does not change it, just its context.

Saying 'I fed the marmalade cat' gives a stranger additional information about the cat. Saying 'I fed his cat' does not. Saying I fed his marmalade cat' both tells us something about the cat and clarifies which cat was fed.
Original post by Good bloke
I have not seen (or looked for) a source, so you surpise me. Perhaps you can link me. But I am happy to say I could be wrong. However, a determiner does not modify the head, does not change it, just its context.

Saying 'I fed the marmalade cat' gives a stranger additional information about the cat. Saying 'I fed his cat' does not. Saying I fed his marmalade cat' both tells us something about the cat and clarifies which cat was fed.

Actually, looking at my sources again (I have a few in my bookmarks and an Oxford grammar book), you were correct: the adverbials and adjectives are clearly distinct from determiners.

Damn! It has been a while since I've seen the material that helped me learn a little bit of grammar haha. The determiners are indeed separate from the general 'modifier' class. As you said, determiners can only function as a word that modifies the head in certain contexts, but it is still not a modifier.

I do believe I conflated modifiers with anything other than the head when I introduced myself to noun phrases a while back, but I need to just keep the facts in mind.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Tolgarda
Actually, looking at my sources again (I have a few in my bookmarks and an Oxford grammar book), you were correct: the adverbials and adjectives are clearly distinct from determiners. Damn. It has been a while since I've seen the material that helped me learn a little bit of grammar haha. The determiners are indeed separate from the general 'modifier' class. As you said, determiners can only function as a word that modifies the head in certain contexts, but it is still not a modifier.

I do believe I conflated modifiers with anything other than the head when I introduced myself to noun phrases a while back, but I need to just keep the facts in mind.


Never mind, because of your intervention I have just remembered another, third, type of modifier that can be quite common in English. It is neither an adjective nor an adverb but can be applied to a head that is a noun. It is a noun. An example might be 'The town was protected by the sea wall'. 'Sea' is a noun but is used in the noun phrase 'sea wall' as a modifier on the head 'wall' to tell us that the wall under consideration is a special kind of wall with a particular purpose.
Original post by Good bloke
Never mind, because of your intervention I have just remembered another, third, type of modifier that can be quite common in English. It is neither an adjective nor an adverb but can be applied to a head that is a noun. It is a noun. An example might be 'The town was protected by the sea wall'. 'Sea' is a noun but is used in the noun phrase 'sea wall' as a modifier on the head 'wall' to tell us that the wall under consideration is a special kind of wall with a particular purpose.

Nice. I assume that is more common with sentences in the passive voice?
Original post by Tolgarda
Nice. I assume that is more common with sentences in the passive voice?

I don't know. 'The rebels will plant land mines'; 'the burglar planned to gain access through the kitchen window' and 'London residents are up in arms about the congestion charge and are protesting' are all active.
Original post by Good bloke
I don't know. 'The rebels will plant land mines'; 'the burglar planned to gain access through the kitchen window' and 'London residents are up in arms about the congestion charge and are protesting' are all active.

Ah yes, I now get a better idea of what you mean. The nouns act as modifiers in open compound nouns.

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