Is anyone really opposed to a Northern Ireland-only backstop? Watch

snipecaik
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Seems like this is the mos sensible and inevitable outcome, which the government is trying to put off. Not only did Northern Ireland vote to remain by 56%, but polls also suggest that it is favoured by the majority of people in N.I. as it will avoid all-Ireland economic disruption and preserve the Belfast agreement which has brought sustaining peace.
What is the argument against it? It will lead to economic divergence from Great Britain, really? Or that N.I. won't be represented within the customs union?
These seem like pretty weak arguments.
But what is the alternative?
Crashing out of the EU without a deal?
This just seems reckless, when a solution is dangling in front of the publics eyes; a sensible solution which will allow life to continue as normal. A technological border doesn't exist, and will not exist by the 31st of October, so what other options are there? I can tell you that none of them are anywhere pragmatic, and a Northern Ireland-only custome union is simply inevitable, so why continue this game of bluff?
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DraconisAudiat
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I don't want any form of Brexit but I think a Northern Ireland-only Customs Union is the most likely outcome.
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_Wellies_
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The DUP is dead against it for a start, which is kind of a major stumbling block.
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DraconisAudiat
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The DUP being against it is only an issue if BoJo still needs the DUP to prop up the Conservative government.
Somehow the Boris/Conservative approval ratings have gone UP while parliament has been on holiday, so if Corbyn called a Vote Of No Confidence tomorrow and it ended in a General Election there's a good chance Boris would end up leading a Conservative + Brexit Party coalition that can do whatever they want without worrying about the DUP.
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L i b
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(Original post by snipecaik)
Seems like this is the mos sensible and inevitable outcome, which the government is trying to put off. Not only did Northern Ireland vote to remain by 56%, but polls also suggest that it is favoured by the majority of people in N.I. as it will avoid all-Ireland economic disruption and preserve the Belfast agreement which has brought sustaining peace.
What is the argument against it? It will lead to economic divergence from Great Britain, really?
It's pretty obvious that creating a customs barrier between GB and NI, as well as moving it out of the UK single market and harmonising instead with another market will cause divergence and harm trade.

Great Britain accounts for more of Northern Ireland's trade than the rest of the world put together, never mind the EU or the Irish Republic. So quite why, all other things being equal, Northern Ireland should be within a trading bloc with the Republic/EU rather than the UK is pretty baffling to me. To keep a border fully open? By partially blocking another one?


But what is the alternative?
Crashing out of the EU without a deal?
I don't see how the EU could realistically object to a Norway solution. It is not in the customs union and has a fairly light border with Sweden.

The backstop is one thing - I can see why it's desired in principle. The problem is caused by the insistence on agreeing the withdrawal and transition arrangements before serious talks about what we're transitioning to. But I would sincerely hope that, even though I supported the Withdrawal Agreement, it would never have to be used and another reasonable alternative would be found.

Under the WA, that solution wouldn't have to be found before 31 October. It would have been a matter for the transition period.
Last edited by L i b; 2 weeks ago
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LiberOfLondon
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The DUP are against it, cos it's kafflik innit.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by DraconisAudiat)
The DUP being against it is only an issue if BoJo still needs the DUP to prop up the Conservative government.
Somehow the Boris/Conservative approval ratings have gone UP while parliament has been on holiday, so if Corbyn called a Vote Of No Confidence tomorrow and it ended in a General Election there's a good chance Boris would end up leading a Conservative + Brexit Party coalition that can do whatever they want without worrying about the DUP.
Although I hate the thought of a secure Boris government, this would still be better than the dreadful reality of the May administration relying on the DUP. Having that bunch of severely intellectually challenged extremists in charge of UK policy has been absolutely pathetic. The only good thing about it is that it shows what the people of Northern Ireland have had to put up with for many years.
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Notoriety
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Yeah, splits up the United Kingdom don't it.

I don't actually oppose it; NI can stay or go as far as I am concerned. It does seem a bit excessive from the EU's POV. Why must they have unilateral control, effectively, of NI's continuing to be regulated by EU law? It is not the backstop which is the issue; it's the fact it's binding.
Last edited by Notoriety; 2 weeks ago
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Rakas21
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#9
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I oppose the backstop, without a unilateral exit mechanism it is tantamount to surrendering the territory.

(Original post by DraconisAudiat)
The DUP being against it is only an issue if BoJo still needs the DUP to prop up the Conservative government.
Somehow the Boris/Conservative approval ratings have gone UP while parliament has been on holiday, so if Corbyn called a Vote Of No Confidence tomorrow and it ended in a General Election there's a good chance Boris would end up leading a Conservative + Brexit Party coalition that can do whatever they want without worrying about the DUP.
It is extremely unlikely that the Brx Party will gain any seat other than perhaps Thurrock and even so, the Brx Party oppose anything that is not a pure exit.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by snipecaik)
Seems like this is the mos sensible and inevitable outcome, which the government is trying to put off. Not only did Northern Ireland vote to remain by 56%, but polls also suggest that it is favoured by the majority of people in N.I. as it will avoid all-Ireland economic disruption and preserve the Belfast agreement which has brought sustaining peace.
What is the argument against it? It will lead to economic divergence from Great Britain, really? Or that N.I. won't be represented within the customs union?
These seem like pretty weak arguments.
But what is the alternative?
Crashing out of the EU without a deal?
This just seems reckless, when a solution is dangling in front of the publics eyes; a sensible solution which will allow life to continue as normal. A technological border doesn't exist, and will not exist by the 31st of October, so what other options are there? I can tell you that none of them are anywhere pragmatic, and a Northern Ireland-only custome union is simply inevitable, so why continue this game of bluff?
The problem is the DUP and Northern Irish poltics of the last few decades being centered around a truce between replicanism and unionism.

Anything that creates more of a border either bwteen Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland or Nothern Ireland and the resof of the UK has the potential to stoke up tensions and a return to the troubles.

Of course not everyone cares about that. But the fact is ever since the Tories lost thier majority in 2017 and now have a a confidence and supply arrangement with the DUP. Even if a leader wanted to they cannot place a border between NI and the UK as the DUP will not support that. A border between NI and the UK is an obviouse solution as it allows NI to remain in a some kind fo arrengement with the EU and southern irleand, but without the rest of the UK being effected.
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Le Male
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Good Friday agreement was treason.
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snipecaik
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(Original post by Le Male)
Good Friday agreement was treason.
yeoooooooooo
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Le Male)
Good Friday agreement was treason.
Of course it was. Because bombs that destroyed whole city centre districts were much better!

Idiot!
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Le Male
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Of course it was. Because bombs that destroyed whole city centre districts were much better!

Idiot!
The UK supported the US in extrajudicial executions in Pakistan using unmanned predator drones on the grounds that it is justified because "terrorism hurr durr". The UK with Ireland bent over backwards to appease them, it's a disgrace how we persecute Brown terrorists but appease White ones.
Last edited by Le Male; 2 weeks ago
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Le Male)
The UK supported the US in extrajudicial executions in Pakistan using unmanned predator drones on the grounds that it is justified because "terrorism hurr durr". The UK with Ireland bent over backwards to appease them, it's a disgrace how we persecute Brown terrorists but appease White ones.
Couldn't agree with you more. But then again, the radicalised terrorists are a bit different from the IRA who had the decency to warn people before they destroyed the joint. But at the same time, we have kind of appeased the terrorists in far off lands. I note that the Taliban are on the brink of power in Afghanistan again.
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Le Male
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Couldn't agree with you more. But then again, the radicalised terrorists are a bit different from the IRA who had the decency to warn people before they destroyed the joint. But at the same time, we have kind of appeased the terrorists in far off lands. I note that the Taliban are on the brink of power in Afghanistan again.
This is exactly the attitude which angers me, the idea that the Brown Muslims are bad terrorists and the IRA are gentlemen terrorists, mischevious little scamps really. "They're British at heart, they just don't know it yet"

We should not have even been in Afghanistan in the first place, sure the Taliban have views which are incompatible with our views, but they live halfway across the world from us whereas the IRA were running guns through our borders, recruiting within our lands and launching attacks on our soil. Islamic terror on the other hand only really became a threat after IS, which was a reaction to decades of Western aggression. The IRA was the threat all along and we played a game in Afghanistan where the only winning move was not to play at all.
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Le Male
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48301965

Arrest an Akh for sharing a nasheed but if a bhoy shares IRA songs he can walk free. Madness!
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Napp
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(Original post by _Wellies_)
The DUP is dead against it for a start, which is kind of a major stumbling block.
In fairness who really cares what they think? Disgusting bunch of sponges.
(Original post by Rakas21)
I oppose the backstop, without a unilateral exit mechanism it is tantamount to surrendering the territory.


It is extremely unlikely that the Brx Party will gain any seat other than perhaps Thurrock and even so, the Brx Party oppose anything that is not a pure exit.
not sure Britain has a choice. Either come up with a better idea (laughable considering the chimps we have in power) or go along BoJos road and dont get his much coveted US trade deal.
I mean those are the only options available to you lot.
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Napp
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(Original post by Le Male)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48301965

Arrest an Akh for sharing a nasheed but if a bhoy shares IRA songs he can walk free. Madness!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doegoa3spKo

Theyre catchy...
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Napp
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(Original post by Le Male)
Good Friday agreement was treason.
There are many words to describe the idiocy of this comment but im afraid this site bans there use.
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