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Why You Should NOT Vote For The Liberal Democrats watch

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    (Original post by technik)
    one man technikship would be the superior option really...lets be honest
    yeah..you're right.....it would................huh!!! :p:
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    For the truth about the Liberal Democrats, go to the website below.

    It's a long read, and may take time to load, but since it exposes the deceptive LibDems for what they really are it is definitely worth reading, especially if you are considering casting a vote for them.

    www.rogerhelmer.com/yellowbook.pdf

    (Roger Helmer is a Conservative MEP, and the Conservatives are authors of this booklet, but nevertheless as you can see it is sourced and referenced, and presents a compelling case.)
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    (Original post by lionel789)
    There stance on the war has been opportunistic and a cheap show. They objected to the Black Watch being redeployed on political grounds over military grounds.

    The Party has conservatives, liberals and socialists in the one same party! One party member even suggested privatising the NHS! - a split party before they even come into government!

    Charles Kennedy was confronted with a leaflet on the Lib Dem website telling people to say tory things when campaigning in tory seats and left wing things in Labour seats - the dirtiest politics around surely?

    Charles Kennedy has shown clear support for the democrats and made it quite clear he wanted Kerry to win. Even if you wanted Kerry to win surely you agree no man aspiring to me Prime Minister should take such sides but rather state his willingness to work with whoever wins!

    The party has some economic and social policies associated with Old Labour..the tried and failed over the last century.

    Taxes would rise, bureaucracy would rise under the Lib Dems

    Even some of their economic policies literally do not add up and on various occassions they have changed such figures on their website havign been humiliated in parliament over the issue

    !
    1)Oppurtunistic and cheap? Another way to look at is they believe the government should be held accountable for lying to the country about the basis of a war...why do you think Robin Cook resigned?
    And how about Labour's use of individuals in their sentimental campaign about the health service last time? How cheap and tasteless was that? Their celebrity parties?
    And this time, the tories making immigration, gippos and theives THE main issues...i could make as stronger case that this is far cheaper.
    I agree though that we can't now pull out of Iraq having gone in.
    2)Labour also has huge divides within the party, they may try and pretend otherwise, before an election,
    but you have people like Galloway and Livingstone, and then people like Tessa Jowell, Blair, and Margaret Hodge, Hazel Blears etc(The aforementioned four should be put to death imo)
    3)Dirty politics? As the Howard Flight thing illustrates, Politicians just wan't votes, they'll appeal to voters in whichever way possible without completely contradicting themselves, and then to get power, where they can get on with what they believe is right. You don't think tory/labour mps in the same situation would have done that? Or are they all shining paragons of virtue?
    4)This is just honesty. I thought thats what you wanted? He's a politican, why shouldn't he display a political opinion? Of course he would have to work with Bush the best he can, that doesn't mean he has to say the sun shines out of the arse of whoever wins.
    5)Perhaps those policies failed because they were not properly implemented, or had inadequate funding..the reason does not have to be that they were philosophically unsound.
    And anyway, which "old labour" social/economic policies? You don't mention any.
    6)Taxes would only rise for those earning over 100,000 a year, the money would be invested in some of their other policies, abolition of tuition fees, free care for the elderly etc. Why would bureaucracy rise? Wheres the evidence?
    7)Many people would say the same of the Tories economic proposals...decrease taxation and increase public spending......
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    Ok, some people think lib dem were 'opportunistic' over the iraq war, and i'd really like to understnad how that can be. My take on it is:-

    Most lib dem supporters were anti-war.
    So the party reflected that view by standing against the war.

    A sizeable amount of people (i think even majority) of labour supporters were against the war.
    But Blair and some of his cabinet decided to ignore tham and go to war anyway.

    The tory supporters tended to be the ones for the war. (though alot were anti too) So their party reflected this by supporting the war.

    So in my personal view, i can't see how you can gripe about Lib Dem OR Tory stances on the war. A party should reflect the views of its supporters. The fact that a large amount of tory and labour supporters were anti-war does not mean lib dem were trying to grab votes by reflecting their own supporters views.


    Anyone else see it differently?
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    Ok, some people think lib dem were 'opportunistic' over the iraq war, and i'd really like to understnad how that can be. My take on it is:-

    Most lib dem supporters were anti-war.
    So the party reflected that view by standing against the war.

    A sizeable amount of people (i think even majority) of labour supporters were against the war.
    But Blair and some of his cabinet decided to ignore tham and go to war anyway.

    The tory supporters tended to be the ones for the war. (though alot were anti too) So their party reflected this by supporting the war.

    So in my personal view, i can't see how you can gripe about Lib Dem OR Tory stances on the war. A party should reflect the views of its supporters. The fact that a large amount of tory and labour supporters were anti-war does not mean lib dem were trying to grab votes by reflecting their own supporters views.


    Anyone else see it differently?
    I think they are perfectly honest, not oppurtunistic. The tories are really scraping the barrel here. If the huge majority of people out there were anti-war, Edinburghlawyer might have more of a case--but the tories would take that line, too, if they knew the overwhelming majority were anti war!...but the opinion is spilt in the public, as it is within parties.....the lib dems don't really gain through a 100% anti-war stance, because probably about 50% of the public disagree with them! Labour are the ones more likely to be dishonest over this issue, as they have many dissenters, but need to appear united to win.
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    Foolfarian, I agree with you - although I would say that only a small number of the 160-odd Conservative MPs opposed military operations in Iraq. Maybe ten at most, a far smaller proportion than the 130-odd Labour MPs who took the same stance.

    My indictment of the LibDems does not include their opposition to the Iraq conflict - I disagree but respect their view, naturally. And naivesincerity highlights the myth that the majority of Britons were against removing Saddam - in fact, as he/she says, the country is divided. Around one million marched in protest, but the other 59 million declined to.
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    although i agree with some of the lib dems policies, (being a student party and everything) its highly unlikely they'll get in, so a vote for them is practically a vote for Howard and we wouldn't want that to happen. So in the end its got to be the lesser of two evils - labour. In my constituency for example i would rather vote for lib dems but i know its generally a conservative area which means id be doing the conservatives a favour (labour have the seat at the moment). So im gonna vote labour to stop the conservatives. basically.
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    I would vote Conservative because they're one of the only parties that seem proud to be British without being excessively racist, intolerant like the UKIP. It's a pity that all of the Conservatives' other policies seem useless to me. New Labour has already taken most of the positive aspects from the Tories.

    I'll probably end up voting Labour even though to me, they don't seem to stand up for Britain enough. They're so PC on the international front, and want to please everyone that they're just weakening the whole country: Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Europe (though in Europe, Tony Blair has done a good job of finally getting us some buddies)
    However, I would definitely vote Labour if Gordon Brown was head of the party... without one bit of hesitation.
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    (Original post by edinburghlawyer)
    Foolfarian, I agree with you - although I would say that only a small number of the 160-odd Conservative MPs opposed military operations in Iraq. Maybe ten at most, a far smaller proportion than the 130-odd Labour MPs who took the same stance.

    My indictment of the LibDems does not include their opposition to the Iraq conflict - I disagree but respect their view, naturally. And naivesincerity highlights the myth that the majority of Britons were against removing Saddam - in fact, as he/she says, the country is divided. Around one million marched in protest, but the other 59 million declined to.
    Ahh now thats not fair.
    You can be damned sure if 1 million people feel strong enough to get on the streets about it, then a LOT more feel the same (but cant afford the time money or effort to go protesting)
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    (Original post by edinburghlawyer)
    www.rogerhelmer.com/yellowbook.pdf
    This is by the same person who thinks we must bow and kiss the yanks' feet because they saved our ass from WWII. He should learn more history, it's not the USA that helped us most, it was the USSR.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    I would vote Conservative because they're one of the only parties that seem proud to be British without being excessively racist, intolerant like the UKIP.
    Show me how UKIP are racist.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Show me how UKIP are racist.
    UKIP aren't racist, but I do detect a bit of Xenphobia in there, that can turn into racism.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    This is by the same person who thinks we must bow and kiss the yanks' feet because they saved our ass from WWII. He should learn more history, it's not the USA that helped us most, it was the USSR.
    Theres also the argument that they only came in because Germany were allied to Japan, and Pearl Harbour had occured. Nevermind the numerous other obnoxious things they've done over the years, Cuba and Chile for example....
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Show me how UKIP are racist.
    The party in itself isn't racist, however plenty of its senior members have rather dubious pasts involving membership of various extremist groups or making some deeply unpleasant statements.
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    (Original post by Chrism)
    The party in itself isn't racist, however plenty of its senior members have rather dubious pasts involving membership of various extremist groups or making some deeply unpleasant statements.
    Indeed. Although I used to think they were people who are anti-EU but obviously there are people with stronger views which extend to racism. Same goes for the BNP really.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Show me how UKIP are racist.
    Racist was a badly chosen word. Sorry. I meant rather intolerant to anything coming from the outside. So basically I was talking about xenophobia but not in a racist way. Their way of dealing with the EU shows more fear of Europeans than actual reflection about what is best for the UK. They rely immensely on peoples fear and ignorance of the EU. That's why I would never vote for them.

    There are other ways of interacting with the rest of the EU, than just cowardly wanting to leave it. In recent years, very few people realise this, but the influence of the UK has increased tremendously. Gone are the days when the UK was only there to put up obstacles to any progress of the integration process. We have a number of like-minded countries in Europe, thanks to enlargement.

    We shouldn't be wondering how we could be leaving the EU but how we could be using that influence to turn everything in our favour. The Paris-Berlin axis is weaker than ever, and when Sarkozy becomes the next French President, it will probably be more or less abandoned. There's a huge opportunity there. But when you're a 70 year old pensioner who knows nothing about "that EU thing", it's hard to realise that.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    They rely immensely on peoples fear and ignorance of the EU. That's why I would never vote for them.

    But when you're a 70 year old pensioner who knows nothing about "that EU thing", it's hard to realise that.
    most of the people i know who vote for ukip did so because 'the didn't want foreigners stealing our taxes' when someone points out to them that imigration brings alot of money into the UK, through taxation, and fills alot of empty job vacancies. They usually, get a little confused, but then vote for ukip anyway because they 'want whats best for britain,' - unlike all the other, respectable,political parties.
 
 
 
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