What will happen when parliament will be suspended? Watch

nulli tertius
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#21
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#21
(Original post by ColinDent)
But our fate was decided by the majority of those who voted on the 23rd June 2016.
No it wasn't.

Our fate is in the hands, as it has been since 1688, of a majority of the Members of the House of Commons from time to time.
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ColinDent
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#22
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#22
(Original post by nulli tertius)
No it wasn't.

Our fate is in the hands, as it has been since 1688, of a majority of the Members of the House of Commons from time to time.
I was talking specifically about our fate within the EU, we the public decided that one.
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nulli tertius
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#23
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#23
(Original post by ColinDent)
I was talking specifically about our fate within the EU, we the public decided that one.
No we didn't, because we couldn't.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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#24
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#24
We all know what happens next..

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ColinDent
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#25
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#25
(Original post by nulli tertius)
No we didn't, because we couldn't.
Ah I see, so now you're just in denial.
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Andrew97
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Justanotheranon6)
Parliament- democratically elected, reflects wishes of entire country
Boris- not democratically elected, one man who only reflects the views of the far right.
There is no excuse to let him suspend parliament
(Original post by Justanotheranon6)
Why should one man (a man not even democratically elected as our prime minister) get to decide the fate of Britain.
(Original post by Archetypally)
To be fair, you could argue that you are voting for a party, not a person. The Conservatives were democratically elected and they have time left in their term. Who leads the party, is the prerogative of the party
Of our last 8 Prime Minsters only 3 came to power as a result of a GE (Thatcher,Blair, Cameron) the rest initially came to power as the result of a party leadership contest. This is entirely normal.
Last edited by Andrew97; 2 weeks ago
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nulli tertius
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#27
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#27
(Original post by ColinDent)
Ah I see, so now you're just in denial
We are a Parliamentary democracy and no Parliament can bind its successor.
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Mil99
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#28
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#28
(Original post by ColinDent)
I was talking specifically about our fate within the EU, we the public decided that one.
But I'm sure you're aware that we didn't decide to leave without a deal.
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ColinDent
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Mil99)
But I'm sure you're aware that we didn't decide to leave without a deal.
But I'm sure that you're aware that we did decide to leave and not remain.
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ColinDent
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#30
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#30
(Original post by nulli tertius)
We are a Parliamentary democracy and no Parliament can bind its successor.
They are public servants and should act as such, this government also gained power on a manifesto stating that we would leave the EU on the 31st March, but they **** out on that because of parliament.
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angelinahx
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Nuttyy)
what happens is constitutionally sound so everything being done is democratic
No, it's not democratic that your unelected prime minister who was voted in by 1% of your country (rich Tories) appeals to an unelected monarch to suspend the parliament in one of the biggest political upsets since WW2 in the UK. That's not normal and it's not democratic because the main point of doing so is to push forward policies the people did not (and the parliament did not) ask for -- that is, no deal. That's historically undemocratic, but with you being British and having normalized the House of Lords and the Monarchy your entire life, it wouldn't surprise me that you have no fundamental concept of what democracy actually is.

Or maybe you just lack basic political knowledge in general, like the fact that the UK doesn't have a written constitution in the same way that Germany or the US does nor do you have a Supreme Court stopping the violation of the Constitution. Any law can be revoked in the House of Commons including freedom of speech and equal pay between men and women if there is a majority for it.
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angelinahx
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#32
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#32
(Original post by ColinDent)
But I'm sure that you're aware that we did decide to leave and not remain.
The people did not vote for a no deal situation and you won under the premise that there would be some level of agreement with the EU. That means your point is void because your PM is pushing through policies the people did not vote for and are inherently undemocratic in nature.
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Nuttyy
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#33
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#33
(Original post by angelinahx)
No, it's not democratic that your unelected prime minister who was voted in by 1% of your country (rich Tories) appeals to an unelected monarch to suspend the parliament in one of the biggest political upsets since WW2 in the UK. That's not normal and it's not democratic because the main point of doing so is to push forward policies the people did not (and the parliament did not) ask for -- that is, no deal. That's historically undemocratic, but with you being British and having normalized the House of Lords and the Monarchy your entire life, it wouldn't surprise me that you have no fundamental concept of what democracy actually is.

Or maybe you just lack basic political knowledge in general, like the fact that the UK doesn't have a written constitution in the same way that Germany or the US does nor do you have a Supreme Court stopping the violation of the Constitution. Any law can be revoked in the House of Commons including freedom of speech and equal pay between men and women if there is a majority for it.
"Not democratic.. unelected prime minister"

Wrong, people of the country voted for the Government in charge, they then decide who leads it. That's how our democracy works, they make decisions on our behalf, and we elect them to do so.


"not normal"

Wrong again, there is a recess at these dates every year. The main stream media know that most people don't understand how parliamentary recesses work so they hawk in the opportunity to scaremonger and yell anti democracy. If it was such, then Boris would be charged with contempt of court. There is a reason he was able to do so, because the very constitution which we voted for, has this written in.


"House of Lords"

That is definitely not democratic, but I don't people with pitchforks infront of the Palace of Westminster?


"no fundamental concept of what democracy actually is"

Now now, let's not mistake your lapse of parliamentary procedure with my apparent lack go knowledge on democracy hahaha. Why the insults, the media has preyed on the likes of you to get upset about this. If what Boris did was truly anti democratic, then he wouldnt be able to do so lmfao. How hard is it to understand? We have the oldest democracy in the world and you think people can blatently ignore it? No. I bet every swine in the chamber knows that this is constitutionally sound, but they'll whine anyway.


"doesn't have a written constitution"

Jeez. After insulting me, you decide to test my knowledge. The UK doesn't have a written formal constitution, but the laws on how Parliament runs are clearly written in Documents and Conventions.


"Any law can be revoked in the House of Commons"

Umm.. I think I need to question your knowledge of our democracy lmao. We elect people to make decisions on our behalf ffs, unless you want nationwide vote every day, on every matter lol. I think you mean HoL, which then I agree with you. It's a joke that they exist.

"people did not ask for"

Finally, something I agree with. Brexit campaigning was a joke. Those who voted leave were blatently lied to. I can't believe Boris wasn't charged with that NHS lie on the Bus.


What Boris has done is lawful and allowed. Is it ethically sound? That's another question. Blame the people who allowed for scenarios, such as this, to be lawful. Boris just used weapons at his disposal. Watch JRM on BBC yesterday, he'll explain it better than anyone.

Oh and just as a final say, I didn't vote for brexit, I was too young at the time. I would've voted to stay, but what can I do? I'm just annoyed at remoaners and those who scream "anti-democracy" everytime something goes against them.
Last edited by Nuttyy; 2 weeks ago
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Andrew97
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#34
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#34
It should also be pointed out that this prorogation allows Johnson to bring back a slightly amended version of Mays deal, and thus try to get a deal through.
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angelinahx
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Nuttyy)
"Not democratic.. unelected prime minister"

Wrong, people of the country voted for the Government in charge, they then decide who leads it. That's how our democracy works, they make decisions on our behalf, and we elect them to do so.


"not normal"

Wrong again, there is a recess at these dates every year. The main stream media know that most people don't understand how parliamentary recesses work so they hawk in the opportunity to scaremonger and yell anti democracy. If it was such, then Boris would be charged with contempt of court. There is a reason he was able to do so, because the very constitution which we voted for, has this written in.


"House of Lords"

That is definitely not democratic, but I don't people with pitchforks infront of the Palace of Westminster?


"no fundamental concept of what democracy actually is"

Now now, let's not mistake your lapse of parliamentary procedure with my apparent lack go knowledge on democracy hahaha. Why the insults, the media has preyed on the likes of you to get upset about this. If what Boris did was truly anti democratic, then he wouldnt be able to do so lmfao. How hard is it to understand? We have the oldest democracy in the world and you think people can blatently ignore it? No. I bet every swine in the chamber knows that this is constitutionally sound, but they'll whine anyway.


"doesn't have a written constitution"

Jeez. After insulting me, you decide to test my knowledge. The UK doesn't have a written formal constitution, but the laws on how Parliament runs are clearly written in Documents and Conventions.


"Any law can be revoked in the House of Commons"

Umm.. I think I need to question your knowledge of our democracy lmao. We elect people to make decisions on our behalf ffs, unless you want nationwide vote every day, on every matter lol. I think you mean HoL, which then I agree with you. It's a joke that they exist.

"people did not ask for"

Finally, something I agree with. Brexit campaigning was a joke. Those who voted leave were blatently lied to. I can't believe Boris wasn't charged with that NHS lie on the Bus.


What Boris has done is lawful and allowed. Is it ethically sound? That's another question. Blame the people who allowed for scenarios, such as this, to be lawful. Boris just used weapons at his disposal. Watch JRM on BBC yesterday, he'll explain it better than anyone.

Oh and just as a final say, I didn't vote for brexit, I was too young at the time. I would've voted to stay, but what can I do? I'm just annoyed at remoaners and those who scream "anti-democracy" everytime something goes against them.
I never said prorogation was not legal or did not occur. Everybody knows that it is. The reason why this is a highly undemocratic procedure is the timing. it's weeks until Brexit. you don't suspend the parliament during this time period because doing so is an active attempt to suppress debate and dispute in the house of commons regarding the deal (or rather, no deal Boris wants to pursue) - which again, is not democratic because the government nor the people do not want a no deal. If you vote for a party you vote for representation of that party in the House of Commons, especially on issues as critically important as this. He's using a perfectly legal and fairly common technique to undermine and suppress the government. That is not okay and it's not normal to do so at this point in time. That's what I said and I stand by that and so do the chief political advisors of your country.

Also, please do correct me if I'm wrong, but if you vote for a political party............. anywhere.......... do you not expect the leader of that political party to......... lead the country? If that person is then subsequently replaced, he is an unelected individual as the people did not consciously vote Tory with him in mind. Had he been the leader of the party, the results may have been ultimately different. But then again, the UK is not a fully democratic country inherently so obviously you don't vote for leaders like they do in the US.

Also, yes, any law which passes through/is revoked first requires a majority in the House of Commons. It then passes through two undemocratic institutions (the Queen and the HoL) but my point is that this could occur with any law. There are no fundamental laws of the land which cannot be legally broken ever (like the 13th amendment in the US). If there is widespread support for slavery being legalized par criminals in the UK amongst the House of Commons, the HoL and the Queen, it will get passed. You lack a written constitution and therefore it is not inherently constitutionally sound. Having that said, it's technically legal. That doesn't make it democratic.
Last edited by angelinahx; 2 weeks ago
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