Dalek1099
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Here is the reply:

Thank you for contacting me with regard to the Fitness to Teach Assessment.

Firstly, please accept my apologies that it has taken time to get back to you. I received the letter from Dr outlining the outcome of your meeting with Occupational Health and acknowledge the recommendations for possible adjustments.
I have spent time investigating the matter; whether the adjustments recommended are reasonable and the support that we would be in a position to offer.

The PGCE is an intensive 9 month course containing both academic and professional elements. I have no doubt that the support mechanisms we have within the University could support the academic element of the PGCE and I acknowledge your record of success with your previous academic study. However, I have serious concerns with the professional component based in school and the feasibility of the recommendations suggested.

From Week 3 of the course, there is a placement in school for 3 days a week. From Week 9, the placement is full-time with expectations of teaching a significant timetable (approx 12 lessons a week) as well as active participation in school duties. Good communication and an ability to plan are key skills that are required within weeks of commencement of the course. The demands increase after Christmas, with a new placement and an increased timetable.

My main concern is that all schools have an element of unpredictability and are noisy places of work. I feel that this could be extremely stressful to you given your stated position. Although we could offer some support with planning you would still be expected to teach the same number of lessons and with the same turnaround time to achieve Qualified Teacher Status. We would not be in an position to shield you from the stresses of professional life.

As an Initial Teacher Education provider, we have a Duty of Care to the schools in our partnership and the children therein. The aim of the Fitness to Teach requirements is that a future teacher has both the physical and mental fitness to perform their duties. At this moment in time, we are unable to support the adjustments suggested for you in Dr’s report.

I am sorry that the decision will be disappointing for you.
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EierVonSatan
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#2
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It will be very disappointing and hard to hear, but it is better than being thrown into a situation where you can't be realistically supported.

There are more ways to contribute to education without being a front-line teacher :yes:
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Notoriety
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(Original post by ltsmith)
you're going to be a teacher?

I thought you were some super clever Einstein dude.
Not a lot physics/mathmos can do, really.
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Notoriety
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OP, they made the right decision for you and for them.
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ltsmith
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(Original post by Notoriety)
Not a lot physics/mathmos can do, really.
I always thought something like STEM academia or quant finance would be up op's alleys given his obsession with academics (he even has his KS2 SATs on his profile :L)
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SarcAndSpark
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Hi

I'm sorry to hear this has happened for you, and I can see this would be disappointing. I don't know the background or the accommodations you requested, but it does sound like maybe you wouldn't cope with a full time ITT course right now. PGCEs are really tough, and can really damage people's mental health. It does sound like a PGCE might not be for you right now.

AFAIK, this doesn't mean you can never do a PGCE ever, though- if teaching is something you really want to do, over time you might be able to develop skills and seek help with some of the issues you currently have which might make you more able to cope with teaching in the future.

Do you have a plan about what you might want to do next?
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LH2327
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
Here is the reply:

Thank you for contacting me with regard to the Fitness to Teach Assessment.

Firstly, please accept my apologies that it has taken time to get back to you. I received the letter from Dr outlining the outcome of your meeting with Occupational Health and acknowledge the recommendations for possible adjustments.
I have spent time investigating the matter; whether the adjustments recommended are reasonable and the support that we would be in a position to offer.

The PGCE is an intensive 9 month course containing both academic and professional elements. I have no doubt that the support mechanisms we have within the University could support the academic element of the PGCE and I acknowledge your record of success with your previous academic study. However, I have serious concerns with the professional component based in school and the feasibility of the recommendations suggested.

From Week 3 of the course, there is a placement in school for 3 days a week. From Week 9, the placement is full-time with expectations of teaching a significant timetable (approx 12 lessons a week) as well as active participation in school duties. Good communication and an ability to plan are key skills that are required within weeks of commencement of the course. The demands increase after Christmas, with a new placement and an increased timetable.

My main concern is that all schools have an element of unpredictability and are noisy places of work. I feel that this could be extremely stressful to you given your stated position. Although we could offer some support with planning you would still be expected to teach the same number of lessons and with the same turnaround time to achieve Qualified Teacher Status. We would not be in an position to shield you from the stresses of professional life.

As an Initial Teacher Education provider, we have a Duty of Care to the schools in our partnership and the children therein. The aim of the Fitness to Teach requirements is that a future teacher has both the physical and mental fitness to perform their duties. At this moment in time, we are unable to support the adjustments suggested for you in Dr’s report.

I am sorry that the decision will be disappointing for you.
From your pp you don’t look suited to be a teacher
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Dalek1099
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#8
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(Original post by SarcAndSpark)
Hi

I'm sorry to hear this has happened for you, and I can see this would be disappointing. I don't know the background or the accommodations you requested, but it does sound like maybe you wouldn't cope with a full time ITT course right now. PGCEs are really tough, and can really damage people's mental health. It does sound like a PGCE might not be for you right now.

AFAIK, this doesn't mean you can never do a PGCE ever, though- if teaching is something you really want to do, over time you might be able to develop skills and seek help with some of the issues you currently have which might make you more able to cope with teaching in the future.

Do you have a plan about what you might want to do next?
I have attached a document showing my Occupational Health Assessment.

What do you think of these adjustments?

I have been contacted by a teacher who feels that I am being discriminated against and should seek legal advice.
Last edited by Dalek1099; 2 weeks ago
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KE216
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
I have attached a document showing my Occupational Health Assessment.

What do you think of these adjustments?

I have been contacted by a teacher who feels that I am being discriminated against and should seek legal advice.
you should remove your name;as your dealing with confidentiality here
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Muttley79
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#10
(Original post by Dalek1099)
I have attached a document showing my Occupational Health Assessment.

What do you think of these adjustments?

I have been contacted by a teacher who feels that I am being discriminated against and should seek legal advice.
Please remove the letter; it has your name on.

These seem minimal adjustments - I've known of blind teachers who have a full-time assistant. Was this a SCITT or a uni?
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
I have attached a document showing my Occupational Health Assessment.

What do you think of these adjustments?

I have been contacted by a teacher who feels that I am being discriminated against and should seek legal advice.
You can of course seek legal advice, but you often find in these cases it's very easy for people who like you to give you false hope just because they want a particular outcome for you.

It seems rather clear that they have considered all reasonable adjustments and concluded you are not suitable. I don't know how that, on the face of it, could cause anyone to believe (without more) that you were discriminated against. Despite what many people believe, you can be sacked or not hired because of a disability. The law is clear on this.

Most branches of CAB will have specialist employment advisers. Pop into one if you want detailed advice.
Last edited by Notoriety; 2 weeks ago
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
The PGCE is an intensive 9 month course containing both academic and professional elements. I have no doubt that the support mechanisms we have within the University could support the academic element of the PGCE and I acknowledge your record of success with your previous academic study. However, I have serious concerns with the professional component based in school and the feasibility of the recommendations suggested.
If there is some concern about your suitability for teaching, maybe you could consider becoming a Teaching Assistant for a year? Lots of people do this before the PGCE as it gives experience of the classroom but without the responsibility of being in charge of a class. You will be able to see from this whether you actually enjoy being in a school environment or not, and how you cope with it
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Dalek1099
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(Original post by Muttley79)
Please remove the letter; it has your name on.

These seem minimal adjustments - I've known of blind teachers who have a full-time assistant. Was this a SCITT or a uni?
Durham University PGCE
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Dalek1099
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I have now attached my Occupational Health Assessment but with my name removed.
Attached files
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SarcAndSpark
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
I have now attached my Occupational Health Assessment but with my name removed.
(Original post by Dalek1099)
I have attached a document showing my Occupational Health Assessment.

What do you think of these adjustments?

I have been contacted by a teacher who feels that I am being discriminated against and should seek legal advice.
The adjustments described do sound really minimal, and I would have thought that a uni would be able to accommodate these.

The list of difficulties doesn't really contain much detail and I wonder if this is part of the problem- it might have been better if exactly what difficulties you have with e.g. planning were fully described, as well as what can be done to overcome them.

I do think it's tricky, because I do agree with the uni that placement can be quite stressful and schools are often unpredictable and noisy- and perhaps also the lack of diagnosis (and possibly the lack of a clear treatment/recovery plan) is also worrying to the uni. The uni are ultimately responsible for your safety and wellbeing and the schools have a duty of care towards their students as well. The PGCE is a really tough year and I can see why the uni has some reservations.

I agree that if you really want to teach, then getting work experience in schools that shows you can cope with the environment (e.g. as a teaching assistant) might help your case. Getting other work experience, and showing that you can function in a work environment as well as a uni one might also help. Personally, I'd recommend this anyway- a lot of people who do a PGCE straight out of uni seem to really struggle. I think it is easier when you have a few years of life/work experience under your belt.

By all means get legal advice if you want to, but I doubt this would provide you with a resolution in time to start the course, and personally, I would not want to force a uni to take me on a PGCE course- you need the uni to be on your side.

I have met some PGCE tutors who have a fairly outdated view of mental illness, but equally I can see in this case why the uni would have legitimate concerns. Sorry, this isn't a super helpful response!
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Dalek1099
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#16
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(Original post by SarcAndSpark)
The adjustments described do sound really minimal, and I would have thought that a uni would be able to accommodate these.

The list of difficulties doesn't really contain much detail and I wonder if this is part of the problem- it might have been better if exactly what difficulties you have with e.g. planning were fully described, as well as what can be done to overcome them.

I do think it's tricky, because I do agree with the uni that placement can be quite stressful and schools are often unpredictable and noisy- and perhaps also the lack of diagnosis (and possibly the lack of a clear treatment/recovery plan) is also worrying to the uni. The uni are ultimately responsible for your safety and wellbeing and the schools have a duty of care towards their students as well. The PGCE is a really tough year and I can see why the uni has some reservations.

I agree that if you really want to teach, then getting work experience in schools that shows you can cope with the environment (e.g. as a teaching assistant) might help your case. Getting other work experience, and showing that you can function in a work environment as well as a uni one might also help. Personally, I'd recommend this anyway- a lot of people who do a PGCE straight out of uni seem to really struggle. I think it is easier when you have a few years of life/work experience under your belt.

By all means get legal advice if you want to, but I doubt this would provide you with a resolution in time to start the course, and personally, I would not want to force a uni to take me on a PGCE course- you need the uni to be on your side.

I have met some PGCE tutors who have a fairly outdated view of mental illness, but equally I can see in this case why the uni would have legitimate concerns. Sorry, this isn't a super helpful response!
A lot of the things the course director is saying are not even mentioned in the adjustments.

Therefore, they aren't valid arguments because the doctor has made it clear that I am fit to teach provided those adjustments are made.
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SarcAndSpark
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
A lot of the things the course director is saying are not even mentioned in the adjustments.

Therefore, they aren't valid arguments because the doctor has made it clear that I am fit to teach provided those adjustments are made.
Ultimately, the doctor isn't an expert on ITT courses, though. The uni is allowed to express concerns about everything mentioned on the form.

I'd say the fact that certain difficulties have been mentioned and the doctor hasn't really discussed how you'd overcome them during teaching practice might actually be part of the problem. All that's basically been said is that you coped at uni, and the ITT provider appears to agree that you'd cope with the uni based parts of the course. The uni has expressed concerns about how you'd cope with the teaching placement parts of the course, and there doesn't really seem to be a discussion about how you'd cope with planning difficulties or your sensitivity to loud noises, for example, which would both present problems on a PGCE.

The PGCE year is really tough, and the uni has a duty of care to everyone involved- you, your fellow students, the students you'd teach in school and the teachers you'd work with in school. Unis are often very protective of their relationships with teaching schools.

If you want to seek legal advice, then that's fair enough, but it might also be worth considering the unis PoV and being very honest with yourself about how you'd cope on a teaching placement. It would be better to do the PGCE a few years down the line and pass than start now and ultimately drop out.
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squeakysquirrel
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(Original post by Dalek1099)
Here is the reply:

Thank you for contacting me with regard to the Fitness to Teach Assessment.

Firstly, please accept my apologies that it has taken time to get back to you. I received the letter from Dr outlining the outcome of your meeting with Occupational Health and acknowledge the recommendations for possible adjustments.
I have spent time investigating the matter; whether the adjustments recommended are reasonable and the support that we would be in a position to offer.

The PGCE is an intensive 9 month course containing both academic and professional elements. I have no doubt that the support mechanisms we have within the University could support the academic element of the PGCE and I acknowledge your record of success with your previous academic study. However, I have serious concerns with the professional component based in school and the feasibility of the recommendations suggested.

From Week 3 of the course, there is a placement in school for 3 days a week. From Week 9, the placement is full-time with expectations of teaching a significant timetable (approx 12 lessons a week) as well as active participation in school duties. Good communication and an ability to plan are key skills that are required within weeks of commencement of the course. The demands increase after Christmas, with a new placement and an increased timetable.

My main concern is that all schools have an element of unpredictability and are noisy places of work. I feel that this could be extremely stressful to you given your stated position. Although we could offer some support with planning you would still be expected to teach the same number of lessons and with the same turnaround time to achieve Qualified Teacher Status. We would not be in an position to shield you from the stresses of professional life.

As an Initial Teacher Education provider, we have a Duty of Care to the schools in our partnership and the children therein. The aim of the Fitness to Teach requirements is that a future teacher has both the physical and mental fitness to perform their duties. At this moment in time, we are unable to support the adjustments suggested for you in Dr’s report.

I am sorry that the decision will be disappointing for you.
I don't know what your background is or what has lead you to posting here - apart from the fact that you are not be allowed to start the PGCE.

It is wonderful that you want to be a teacher - I applaud you. Teaching in state schools in this country is quite an undertaking and is not to be embarked upon lightly. But don't give up.

My son is a physics teacher. He started out as a teaching assistant at a very well known private school. He loved it and did two years there before embarking on the PGCE. The private school supported him and he did a few weeks at his old state school in order to do all the necessary experience.

Once qualified he did supply teaching in London but didn't like the difficult children he had to face, so now he is starting a new job at another well known private school ( top 20 in the country)

If you want to be a teacher and I very much hope you do - get a TA job - you won't regret it. May take you a few more years to get there.
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