Dexter321
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Samk32)
One of the best rankings in the UK, in my opinion, is https://www.highfliers.co.uk/downloa...GMReport19.pdf page 31 These universities there are most targeted by the employers. Don't spend too much on the international rankings as they mean nothing unless you want to study abroad and then come back to England. Then you might use it as a source of comparison etc. However, if you plan on staying in the UK after your graduation then focus on getting in one of the universities listed in HF report
Tables are just one of many things to consider. This one you've quoted is IMO of less use than the other more publicised ones. Just because large employers near to large Uni's go to them is no proof they're better for students. Would you seriously pick any of that list ahead of St. Andrews? I guess you would. That is your choice....
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Anagogic
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#22
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(Original post by PQ)
Sam stated that he believes average tariff points identifies where the “smartest” students study. Tariff points don’t make allowances for subject or subject mix. An A* in general studies attracts more tariff points than an A in further maths.

Tariff points don’t measure “smartness”. That isn’t their purpose.
A levels aren't IQ tests so they don't measure "smartness" but academic performance, anyway that's not the point. I do agree with you though that Tariff points aren't representative of what a student has obtained, but with oversee equivalents and b-tecs they are needed.
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Samk32
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#23
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(Original post by PQ)
Sam stated that he believes average tariff points identifies where the “smartest” students study. Tariff points don’t make allowances for subject or subject mix. An A* in general studies attracts more tariff points than an A in further maths.

Tariff points don’t measure “smartness”. That isn’t their purpose.
Ok so uni with 100average ucas points vs uni with 180 are both equal? Is that what you got inside your head? Unless you pull the data and make it here publicly available what grades and how many a levels certain students from those uni did then we can talk about it otherwise... additionally I put quotation mark there on purpose I’ve met students from oxford and Cambridge that were just utterly dumb and I met students from the bottom of table leagues that were extremely intelligent. However that’s not the case for every single student at bottom league unis... is
Last edited by Samk32; 1 week ago
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davidthomasjnr
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#24
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(Original post by Anonymous)
which rankings are better world rankings (eg QS) or national rankings (eg CUG).

What is the difference between the way these two rankings work? Why is a university, such as UCL, ranked 8th globally on QS ranked 10th in the UK league tables? And why are universities ranked highly in the UK (eg Bath) not higher up in the QS rankings?

I’m applying to university this year and recently started looking at rankings, I’m not entirely sure how they work. I know that I shouldn’t apply based on reputation& rankings etc etc but I just wanted to see what the top universities are
QS is generally considered to be the most reliable.
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Samk32
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#25
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(Original post by Dexter321)
Tables are just one of many things to consider. This one you've quoted is IMO of less use than the other more publicised ones. Just because large employers near to large Uni's go to them is no proof they're better for students. Would you seriously pick any of that list ahead of St. Andrews? I guess you would. That is your choice....
Well I wouldn’t choose st Andrews for one and only reason it is in the middle of nowhere I’d rather go to uni of Edinburgh... what other more publicised one you mean the guardian and cug?
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mnot
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Anonymous)
which rankings are better world rankings (eg QS) or national rankings (eg CUG).

What is the difference between the way these two rankings work? Why is a university, such as UCL, ranked 8th globally on QS ranked 10th in the UK league tables? And why are universities ranked highly in the UK (eg Bath) not higher up in the QS rankings?

I’m applying to university this year and recently started looking at rankings, I’m not entirely sure how they work. I know that I shouldn’t apply based on reputation& rankings etc etc but I just wanted to see what the top universities are
I dont really regard any that well tbh, i think the international rankings generally are slightly better.

a3 rankings are actually compiled by academics and aren't used to milk ad revenue so id recommend these over any other ranking but I have a personal opinion which I put more weight on then any other ranking.

mnot rankings:
God tier: Oxford, Cambridge
Elite: Imperial, UCL, LSE, Warwick, Durham
Premium: Bristol, Notts, Manchester, Leeds, Kings a few others..
Good: Bath, Loughborough, rest of RG...
Everyone else...
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Samk32
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#27
(Original post by davidthomasjnr)
QS is generally considered to be the most reliable.
Says who? You? They?
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PQ
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#28
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#28
(Original post by davidthomasjnr)
QS is generally considered to be the most reliable.
:rofl:

I am registered on the QS reputation survey. It isn’t reliable.
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Samk32
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#29
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#29
(Original post by mnot)
I dont really regard any that well tbh, i think the international rankings generally are slightly better.

a3 rankings are actually compiled by academics and aren't used to milk ad revenue so id recommend these over any other ranking but I have a personal opinion which I put more weight on then any other ranking.

mnot rankings:
God tier: Oxford, Cambridge
Elite: Imperial, UCL, LSE, Warwick, Durham
Premium: Bristol, Notts, Manchester, Leeds, Kings a few others..
Good: Bath, Loughborough, rest of RG...
Everyone else...
Glad you called it mnot rankings btw the whole ranking system is as bs as going on tip ranks website and buying recommended stocks, if you wouldn’t bet your money based on those stock rankings why would you bet your £27k on education you’re getting from these unis lol
Last edited by Samk32; 1 week ago
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davidthomasjnr
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Samk32)
Says who? You? They?
QS gives an accurate representation of universities as a whole; the main criteria they assess is student satisfaction, in addition to teaching and research. Most other ranking systems do not take all of these variables into account, or their more complex aspects for each university around the world. Plus, a lot of employers use them, particularly in academia (STEM) and other research fields. Thus, I would say it's quite useful for looking from undergraduate to PhD level courses as the rankings are quite consistent, whereas other league tables (particularly national ones) only look at aspects relevant to undergraduate study, do not put their universities into perspective when compared to others around the world, and often change rankings yearly for seemingly arbitrary reasons. But as others said, it depends on what metrics you want to compare universities about.
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Samk32
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#31
(Original post by davidthomasjnr)
QS gives an accurate representation of universities as a whole; the main criteria they assess is student satisfaction, in addition to teaching and research. Most other ranking systems do not take all of these variables into account, or their more complex aspects for each university around the world. Plus, a lot of employers use them, particularly in academia (STEM) and other research fields. Thus, I would say it's quite useful for looking from undergraduate to PhD level courses as the rankings are quite consistent, whereas other league tables (particularly national ones) only look at aspects relevant to undergraduate study, do not put their universities into perspective when compared to others around the world, and often change rankings yearly for seemingly arbitrary reasons. But as others said, it depends on what metrics you want to compare universities about.
Ok says you... well done if you think employers are using these
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davidthomasjnr
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#32
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(Original post by PQ)
:rofl:

I am registered on the QS reputation survey. It isn’t reliable.
In academia it is the basis of most international students and employers to chose which university to do their PhD in, or take students from etc; particularly STEM students. I mean reliable in the sense that it is a useful tool to gauge the reputation of the university in question, especially for graduate studies.
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davidthomasjnr
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#33
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(Original post by Samk32)
Ok says you... well done if you think employers are using these
They do, particularly in the US, Japan, China, pretty much everywhere outside the U.K. These countries give scholarships for their students to study at universities in other countries literally based on QS ranking.
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PQ
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#34
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#34
(Original post by davidthomasjnr)
In academia it is the basis of most international students and employers to chose which university to do their PhD in, or take students from etc; particularly STEM students. I mean reliable in the sense that it is a useful tool to gauge the reputation of the university in question, especially for graduate studies.
If they’re using my survey answers to rank universities then the results are not reliable. It doesn’t gauge reputation reliably - some universities have targeted the survey with their staff to deliberately distort the results.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admis...e-its-rankings
Their vetting process weeds out people without a university email account.
It doesn’t weed out non academics or students

If you’re using QS instead of looking at the actual research output of departments to decide on graduate study then you might not be cut out for academic research.
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PQ
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#35
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#35
(Original post by davidthomasjnr)
QS gives an accurate representation of universities as a whole; the main criteria they assess is student satisfaction, in addition to teaching and research. Most other ranking systems do not take all of these variables into account, or their more complex aspects for each university around the world. Plus, a lot of employers use them, particularly in academia (STEM) and other research fields. Thus, I would say it's quite useful for looking from undergraduate to PhD level courses as the rankings are quite consistent, whereas other league tables (particularly national ones) only look at aspects relevant to undergraduate study, do not put their universities into perspective when compared to others around the world, and often change rankings yearly for seemingly arbitrary reasons. But as others said, it depends on what metrics you want to compare universities about.
The QS doesn’t use student satisfaction in any form
https://www.topuniversities.com/qs-w...gs/methodology
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mnot
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(Original post by davidthomasjnr)
They do, particularly in the US, Japan, China, pretty much everywhere outside the U.K. These countries give scholarships for their students to study at universities in other countries literally based on QS ranking.
Im not convinced scholarships are awarded by anyone based off the QS guide.

The US pays no attention to QS for example many liberal art colleges are extremely well respected (such as Amherst) yet get overlooked by QS because their tiny, Dartmouth is super competitive yet struggles in QS as it is very undergrad focused. Yet Ohio State is very inflated in the rankings as it is super rich from college sport money, but is actually a fairly average uni.

China definitely does not look at QS, for the most part Chinese students get allocated unis based on 1 exam, and only super rich students who didn't go to a China C9 uni look abroad.

No idea about Japan.

but lets face it, no scholarship panel worth looking at, actually uses these rankings, that would be foolish
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Dexter321
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#37
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#37
(Original post by davidthomasjnr)
whereas other league tables (particularly national ones) only look at aspects relevant to undergraduate study
....so are therefore of more use to most students?
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Dexter321
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#38
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(Original post by Samk32)
Well I wouldn’t choose st Andrews for one and only reason it is in the middle of nowhere I’d rather go to uni of Edinburgh... what other more publicised one you mean the guardian and cug?
You see that's an issue that wrecks your opinion about things like Highfliers league tables. Employers think exactly the same as you. Why would they go up there? Nothing to do with whether the ungrads are more or less able than in Birmingham, Manchester and Bristol!
Re tables, I think most others that are freely available.
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Samk32
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#39
(Original post by Dexter321)
You see that's an issue that wrecks your opinion about things like Highfliers league tables. Employers think exactly the same as you. Why would they go up there? Nothing to do with whether the ungrads are more or less able than in Birmingham, Manchester and Bristol!
Re tables, I think most others that are freely available.
Tell me then what is so special about st Andrews?
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Dexter321
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(Original post by Samk32)
Tell me then what is so special about st Andrews?
Apart from anything else, a number of graduates pick there to do their masters rather than stay where they are. Another thing to consider is that despite being so far from most applicants' homes, they can still attract the best. I also have immediate family there. I could have picked other places not featuring highly or at all in your preferred measure of "smartest".

Now, this league table you're advocating.....other than being helpful for undergrads who've no idea what they want to end up doing for a living, and apart from the freebies that are dished out, what else do Uni applicants benefit from, knowing that lots of employers go and advertise their existence at these Uni's?
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