Samk32
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#41
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(Original post by Dexter321)
Apart from anything else, a number of graduates pick there to do their masters rather than stay where they are. Another thing to consider is that despite being so far from most applicants' homes, they can still attract the best. I also have immediate family there. I could have picked other places not featuring highly or at all in your preferred measure of "smartest".

Now, this league table you're advocating.....other than being helpful for undergrads who've no idea what they want to end up doing for a living, and apart from the freebies that are dished out, what else do Uni applicants benefit from, knowing that lots of employers go and advertise their existence at these Uni's?
Never heard of anyone who wanted to complete their masters in Finance or MBA at St Andrew and these two are the most sought out post-graduate degrees. Still, I don't see anything special about St Andrews, I'd rather go to study at Bristol, Bath, Exeter or London Unis
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Samk32
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#42
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Another way to choose a university is to look at REF rankings https://www.timeshighereducation.com.../sub-14-01.pdf here is another break down of each department https://www.ref.ac.uk/2014/media/ref...20document.pdf
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PQ
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#43
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Yep - REF rankings of research conducted between 2008 and 2013 is a great way to choose a university for undergraduate 2020 entry :rolleyes:
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Dexter321
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#44
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(Original post by Samk32)
Never heard of anyone who wanted to complete their masters in Finance or MBA at St Andrew and these two are the most sought out post-graduate degrees. Still, I don't see anything special about St Andrews, I'd rather go to study at Bristol, Bath, Exeter or London Unis
That is your opinion. I too would rather go to Bath or Exeter, and would rather go to St. Andrews than Bristol or London. That is my opinion. Nothing to do with league tables though as I, and it appears you, have different criteria to the rankings.
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Dexter321
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#45
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(Original post by Samk32)
Another way to choose a university is to look at REF rankings https://www.timeshighereducation.com.../sub-14-01.pdf here is another break down of each department https://www.ref.ac.uk/2014/media/ref...20document.pdf
Why would people use data from 2014 about research when picking an undergraduate course? That's no more informative IMO than your Highfliers league table.
When people choose their options, there should be loads of 'data' going in and that data is going to be different with different weightings. One person's Oxford is another person's nightmare, and London is great for some people and not remotely in contention for others.
Rankings do have a role, but only those that measure stuff that's relevant to applicants. None of your suggestions appear to be. That's just my opinion. I know you disagree but I think it's hard to make a case for your tables.
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Samk32
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(Original post by Dexter321)
Why would people use data from 2014 about research when picking an undergraduate course? That's no more informative IMO than your Highfliers league table.
When people choose their options, there should be loads of 'data' going in and that data is going to be different with different weightings. One person's Oxford is another person's nightmare, and London is great for some people and not remotely in contention for others.
Rankings do have a role, but only those that measure stuff that's relevant to applicants. None of your suggestions appear to be. That's just my opinion. I know you disagree but I think it's hard to make a case for your tables.
Because those people who conducted the research between 2008-2014 are still teaching at those universities and still going to teach until new rankings in 2021 will be released so it is a good indicator of what research quality will be like in the future. For instance, Bath Business School of Management is one of the best in the country in terms of links with the industry and quality of research conducted, whereas I would not necessarily go there if I wanted to study English literature I don't think they even have literature courses there
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Dexter321
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#47
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(Original post by Samk32)
Because those people who conducted the research between 2008-2014 are still teaching at those universities and still going to teach until new rankings in 2021
Where did you get that information from?
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Samk32
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(Original post by Dexter321)
Where did you get that information from?
you can find it on REF website
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Dexter321
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(Original post by Samk32)
you can find it on REF website
Sorry, I don't have time to go searching for info about whether employees are at the same Uni's more than a decade later and frankly will assume many aren't. I don't think OP is benefiting from our exchange of opinions either, and I doubt anyone is! I can only conclude that I don't agree with your view that future undergrads would benefit from your rankings and ratings systems. Cheers.
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Samk32
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#50
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(Original post by Dexter321)
Sorry, I don't have time to go searching for info about whether employees are at the same Uni's more than a decade later and frankly will assume many aren't. I don't think OP is benefiting from our exchange of opinions either, and I doubt anyone is! I can only conclude that I don't agree with your view that future undergrads would benefit from your rankings and ratings systems. Cheers.
I couldn't care less what you agree on or disagree, you lack common sense, some lectures teach for 20-30 years at universities well you would know that if you went to one
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Admit-One
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#51
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(Original post by Samk32)
I couldn't care less what you agree on or disagree, you lack common sense, some lectures teach for 20-30 years at universities well you would know that if you went to one
I'm sorry, but it's hardy 'common sense' to infer some connection between the quality of UG teaching delivery based on REF data from 10 years ago.
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Mustafa0605
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#52
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I think you should rank them yourself.
Russel group > Non Russel group
Oxford and Cambridge best in UK and maybe world
Maybe if a Russel group University is local that could be important for you.
Other factors you should think of could be location: countryside or city.
Looking purely at entry tarrif is not always the best way unless there’s a huge gap because people can do 5 a levels and do poorly but get more UCAS points than someone who did great in three A levels
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Samk32
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#53
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(Original post by Admit-One)
I'm sorry, but it's hardy 'common sense' to infer some connection between the quality of UG teaching delivery based on REF data from 10 years ago.
Well so tell me why guardian and CUG use REF data in the rankings? and 2014 was not 10 years ago
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Samk32
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#54
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(Original post by Mustafa0605)
I think you should rank them yourself.
Russel group > Non Russel group
Oxford and Cambridge best in UK and maybe world
Maybe if a Russel group University is local that could be important for you.
Other factors you should think of could be location: countryside or city.
Looking purely at entry tarrif is not always the best way unless there’s a huge gap because people can do 5 a levels and do poorly but get more UCAS points than someone who did great in three A levels
Bath is better than 75% of Russel group universities. Russel group is just a group that was created in the 90s to push for funding from government back then
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Mustafa0605
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(Original post by Samk32)
Bath is better than 75% of Russel group universities. Russel group is just a group that was created in the 90s to push for funding from government back then
I wouldn’t say 75%. Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, LSE, Durham, St Andrews are better
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Samk32
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(Original post by Mustafa0605)
I wouldn’t say 75%. Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, LSE, Durham, St Andrews are better
Ref rankings 2008 (GPA) Business
1 London Business School (3.35)
2 Imperial (3.2)
3 Cambridge (3.05)
4 Cardiff (3)
5 Bath (2.95)
Ref Rankings 2014 (GPA) Business
1 LSE (3.46)
2 Cambridge (3.44)
3 Imperial (3.4)
4 Oxford (3.36)
5 LBS (3.29)
6 Cardiff (3.28)
7 City (3.23)
8 Bath (3.2)

Even if we take data from 2014 We've got Cambridge LSE Imperial Oxford Cardiff and City that is 6 unis from Russel group uni you've got 24 in total, so take 6/24=0.25 so I was right Bath is better than 75% Russel Group unis. Additionally, Russell group that any uni can join example Durham Exeter, Queen Mary and York joined in 2012. Well, we shall see the 2021 ref rankings. However, look at data from 2008 and 2014 for the years 2002-2014 we can see that it is a good indicator
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mnot
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#57
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(Original post by Samk32)
Ref rankings 2008 (GPA) Business
1 London Business School (3.35)
2 Imperial (3.2)
3 Cambridge (3.05)
4 Cardiff (3)
5 Bath (2.95)
Ref Rankings 2014 (GPA) Business
1 LSE (3.46)
2 Cambridge (3.44)
3 Imperial (3.4)
4 Oxford (3.36)
5 LBS (3.29)
6 Cardiff (3.28)
7 City (3.23)
8 Bath (3.2)

Even if we take data from 2014 We've got Cambridge LSE Imperial Oxford Cardiff and City that is 6 unis from Russel group uni you've got 24 in total, so take 6/24=0.25 so I was right Bath is better than 75% Russel Group unis. Additionally, Russell group that any uni can join example Durham Exeter, Queen Mary and York joined in 2012. Well, we shall see the 2021 ref rankings. However, look at data from 2008 and 2014 for the years 2002-2014 we can see that it is a good indicator
Not sure REF data is really a good overall ranking indicator but in the overall power ranking Bath was 35 (REF 2014) I would say 75% seems high, Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, LSE, St Andrews, Warwick, Bristol, Notts, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Exeter, Southampton are all better or par. I would say its top half of RG.

Although this debate is endless... Bath is a good uni, thats all that matters
Last edited by mnot; 1 week ago
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Samk32
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(Original post by mnot)
Not sure REF data is really a good overall ranking indicator but in the overall power ranking Bath was 35 (REF 2014) I would say 75% seems high, Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL, LSE, St Andrews, Warwick, Bristol, Notts, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Exeter, Southampton are all better or par. I would say its top half of RG.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com...over-14-01.pdf I don't see Bath 35th in overall rankings. Even if it was why would you look at overall rankings, you should be looking at the subject you want to study. Would you want to go to a university that is top 10 in overall rankings but the department you are going be tought by has submitted very little 4* articles in the last 15 years?
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PQ
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(Original post by Samk32)
Well so tell me why guardian and CUG use REF data in the rankings? and 2014 was not 10 years ago
The guardian doesn’t use any research metrics in their rankings
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mnot
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(Original post by Samk32)
https://www.timeshighereducation.com...over-14-01.pdf I don't see Bath 35th in overall rankings. Even if it was why would you look at overall rankings, you should be looking at the subject you want to study. Would you want to go to a university that is top 10 in overall rankings but the department you are going be tought by has submitted very little 4* articles in the last 15 years?
I do look at subject specific info, but this thread is not about 1 specific subject, its a generalisation. The power rank is a good indicator of both the overall impact and the amount of research completed, which is why its often used. TBH no one on TSR really discusses specific research groups on here, and if your interested in the research uni you would probably not target Bath, there are unis with much more resources in this area, Bath is a very good uni but I would generally say is more suited to undergrad in subjects such as Maths or economics.
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