A new political party and its manifesto Watch

Napp
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#21
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#21
(Original post by kali8603)
I'm very pro free speech online, although how a government would regulate this policy would be unknown. But definitely social media platforms would face fines for banning people or organisations due to their political views unless they are classed as a terrorist group etc
You do know these two statements are diametrically opposed right?
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Alt Tankie
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#22
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#22
(Original post by kali8603)
Liberals and many labour party members describe anything slightly to the right socially or in some cases anything they disagree with as "fascist". Yes tankies aren't libreals or momentum members but they're certainly not alt right. I can see some similarities between the alt right and the far left, in fact many nazis were verhmently anti capitalist, but those nazis didn't last long. I'm definitely not a Nazi. I hate Nazis.
Why do you think liberals and those labour members do that?

Basically all Nazis and fascists were vehemently anti capitalist - most of the Italian fascist patty were ex communists. Hitler and Goebells particularly were radically socialist and abolished the stock exchange and had zero unemployment.

What similarities do you see with the Alt right and what disagreements do you see?

And most importantly, why do you hate Nazis but support or/and defend Assad’s Syria and Communist China when mainstream sources are accusing them of doing the same as the Nazis?

Feel free to PM me 👍🏻
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Archetypally
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#23
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#23
"We would also support President Assad"

This is a categorically terrible decision.
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Andrew97
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#24
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#24
Way to alert people who you are a dupe of.
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Alt Tankie
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Archetypally)
"We would also support President Assad"

This is a categorically terrible decision.
Better than supporting al Qaida which is what we have been doing
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Archetypally
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Better than supporting al Qaida which is what we have been doing
That use of aid money was certainly dubious but it was indirect and primarily the fault of the Syrian government. So for one, it's not as bad as publicly supporting a war criminal who holds more power than Al Qaida did.

Even if I'm wrong, and you are completely correct, it's sort of irrelevant, isn't it? Saying we've supported a terrorist group shouldn't be justification for supporting more crimes against humanity.
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Rakas21
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
You’re much more likely to end up like that in capitalist India rather than communist China
China is just a fascist version of pre-1990’s Europe.

It is a facist social democracy in effect (social democracy here being a highly regulated and taxed market economy rather than actually democratic) but to suggest that it is socialist, let alone communist belies a lack of understanding of what those things mean and I have seen enough of your posts to know you do.

Pre-06 Cuba is probably a good example of communism. A closed economy in which property rights were abolished but one in which there was compared to its rivals a relatively minimal command economy.

Equally Venezuela is a good example of a socialist state. An economy in which the state seized production from the private sector (and then complains when its currency is worthless) and controls almost every aspect of the legal economy.

While I am surprised Cuba was so rebellion free (abolition of property rights is effective impoverishment relative to the western world) Venezuela and the USSR nicely show that command economies are often unsustainable in a free democracy and so inherently you end up with a dictator like Maduro is becoming.
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Alt Tankie
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Archetypally)
That use of aid money was certainly dubious but it was indirect and primarily the fault of the Syrian government. So for one, it's not as bad as publicly supporting a war criminal who holds more power than Al Qaida did.

Even if I'm wrong, and you are completely correct, it's sort of irrelevant, isn't it? Saying we've supported a terrorist group shouldn't be justification for supporting more crimes against humanity.
It does actually. Assad is the popular and legitimate ruler of Syria and the ‘crimes’ he has committed have been against USIS and Western backed Al Qaida... if you were to do the same to literally any country including ours we would have little choice but to engage in similar breaches of international law which are of course imposed by the west who do not face such problems
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Andrew97
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
It does actually. Assad is the popular and legitimate ruler of Syria and the ‘crimes’ he has committed have been against USIS and Western backed Al Qaida... if you were to do the same to literally any country including ours we would have little choice but to engage in similar breaches of international law which are of course imposed by the west who do not face such problems
The fact there’s a civil war implies he’s not the most popular of fellows.
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Rakas21
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
It does actually. Assad is the popular and legitimate ruler of Syria and the ‘crimes’ he has committed have been against USIS and Western backed Al Qaida... if you were to do the same to literally any country including ours we would have little choice but to engage in similar breaches of international law which are of course imposed by the west who do not face such problems
Assad used chemical weapons in 2013 and then allied with Russia in their proxy war with the West. He is our enemy regardless of who else is involved.
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Archetypally
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
It does actually. Assad is the popular and legitimate ruler of Syria and the ‘crimes’ he has committed have been against USIS and Western backed Al Qaida... if you were to do the same to literally any country including ours we would have little choice but to engage in similar breaches of international law which are of course imposed by the west who do not face such problems
Again, I don't have great recall on this topic, but didn't women and children die in detention centres? Pretty sure they weren't active members of Al Qaida.

If we were in the same position, we would not be using chemical weapons.
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Alt Tankie
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Rakas21)
China is just a fascist version of pre-1990’s Europe.

It is a facist social democracy in effect (social democracy here being a highly regulated and taxed market economy rather than actually democratic) but to suggest that it is socialist, let alone communist belies a lack of understanding of what those things mean and I have seen enough of your posts to know you do.

Pre-06 Cuba is probably a good example of communism. A closed economy in which property rights were abolished but one in which there was compared to its rivals a relatively minimal command economy.

Equally Venezuela is a good example of a socialist state. An economy in which the state seized production from the private sector (and then complains when its currency is worthless) and controls almost every aspect of the legal economy.

While I am surprised Cuba was so rebellion free (abolition of property rights is effective impoverishment relative to the western world) Venezuela and the USSR nicely show that command economies are often unsustainable in a free democracy and so inherently you end up with a dictator like Maduro is becoming.
PRSOM

I agree with your point on China.

I have always said that I am a non Marxist Communist and support actually existing communism - which is I actually think real communism in the same way that most people rightly view the U.K. as a capitalist country despite anarcho capitalists and libertarians screaming that it’s a statist racket.

.........

On Venezuela and USSR two points/

-you have nicely left out the continuous attempts to undermine both countries by the US. If the US attempts to destroy a country even a liberal democratic one it will obviously suffer. North Korea has the distinction of surviving this and this is a state run economy. Under such assault this makes a dictator of sorts unavoidable.

- Norway has far more state owned assets than Venezuela
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Alt Tankie
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Napp)
You do know these two statements are diametrically opposed right?
I am militantly pro free speech but there is a difference between free speech and serious actual calls for violence.

Eg I think somebody should be allowed to say ‘all black people should be forcibly deported from the country’ which would be regarded as a hate crime and get you in trouble.

What I don’t support is somebody calling on their followers to violently kill any black people they see on the street, which should never and HAS never been acceptable except in circumstances which any right thinking person can understand eg if it’s in parody or in a film etc .,
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Alt Tankie
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#34
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#34
(Original post by kali8603)
Maybe keep grammar schools but I'd rather see teh same effort go into all schools. And I'm not a huge fan of marijuana, it would just be popular amongst younger voters, and would provide an important source of income for the country if it could be taxed. Would also end a lot of the culture around it and free up police time
Disagree with all of that but ok. Read some peter Hitchens on marijuana policy
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Archetypally
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Eg I think somebody should be allowed to say ‘all black people should be forcibly deported from the country’ which would be regarded as a hate crime and get you in trouble.
May I ask what you think the benefit of allowing those sorts of comments to be made would have?
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Rakas21
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Archetypally)
May I ask what you think the benefit of allowing those sorts of comments to be made would have?
There’s a fair argument for free speech being a civil matter rather than criminal. The African should be able to sue you for those comments if he can prove its impact on his life but the police should not be wasting their time protecting people’s feelings rather than investigating actual crimes.
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Alt Tankie
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Archetypally)
May I ask what you think the benefit of allowing those sorts of comments to be made would have?
1: it is better that these view are discussed openly as it means they can be potentially addressed sooner. Banning such views from being expressed only further fuels resentment. Because mainstream parties have essentially delegitimised any serious criticism of immigration as beyond the pale they have allowed previous fringe movements to dominate. If we had had a more frank conversation sooner this could have been avoided.

2: who gets to decide which comments are and are not acceptable? In practise this means the ADL bit I believe they have an extreme and biased agenda.

3: the above laws and rules are also selectively applied. For instance white people are fair game to say whatever you want about.
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kali8603
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Why do you think liberals and those labour members do that?

Basically all Nazis and fascists were vehemently anti capitalist - most of the Italian fascist patty were ex communists. Hitler and Goebells particularly were radically socialist and abolished the stock exchange and had zero unemployment.

What similarities do you see with the Alt right and what disagreements do you see?

And most importantly, why do you hate Nazis but support or/and defend Assad’s Syria and Communist China when mainstream sources are accusing them of doing the same as the Nazis?

Feel free to PM me 👍🏻
China is not genociding the Uighurs, it is a cultural genocide yes, but they're not actually killing them. That doesn't make it right, but its not like Nazi germany. Assad, well i support him just because he's a Ba'Athist and a secularist in a part of the world where there are religous nutjubs everywhere. I don't believe the mainstream media.

Are you actually a socialist/communist or are you actually some kind of weird alt right type, because the thing is hitler wasn't a socialist. Yes zero unemployment. yes no stock exchange. yes, he did nationalise a few industries but the term privatisation comes from the term of the nazis. Hitler worked with all the big companies. Ernst rohm, yes, maybe he wasn't as bad, but they didn't see it as a class war, they saw it as a race war.

Italian fascism is different from nazism, although i don'/t support either+
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Alt Tankie
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#39
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#39
(Original post by kali8603)
China is not genociding the Uighurs, it is a cultural genocide yes, but they're not actually killing them. That doesn't make it right, but its not like Nazi germany. Assad, well i support him just because he's a Ba'Athist and a secularist in a part of the world where there are religous nutjubs everywhere. I don't believe the mainstream media.

Are you actually a socialist/communist or are you actually some kind of weird alt right type, because the thing is hitler wasn't a socialist. Yes zero unemployment. yes no stock exchange. yes, he did nationalise a few industries but the term privatisation comes from the term of the nazis. Hitler worked with all the big companies. Ernst rohm, yes, maybe he wasn't as bad, but they didn't see it as a class war, they saw it as a race war.

Italian fascism is different from nazism, although i don'/t support either+
Well it kinda is actually what the Nazis were doing at first, until they started losing the war when they began exterminating (I believe that’s what the mainstream narrative says what happened). .. my thoughts on world war 2 would get me banned here so I’ll stay quiet on that front

The problems in the Middle East are t really to do with religion that’s a NeoCon narrative. Iran is a religious state and is a very rational state actor for instance. The problem is Israel and it’s western lackeys undermining any attempt to make a successful Arab democracy which could compete with them.

I view myself as both. The Russian Communist Party would be seen as fascist by most western liberals for instance. I think Hitler not being a socialist is revisionism and not the good kind. China today deals with big business... even Lenin did! The Nazis saw it as battle for national self determination against imperialist powers.
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kali8603
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Well it kinda is actually what the Nazis were doing at first, until they started losing the war when they began exterminating (I believe that’s what the mainstream narrative says what happened). .. my thoughts on world war 2 would get me banned here so I’ll stay quiet on that front

The problems in the Middle East are t really to do with religion that’s a NeoCon narrative. Iran is a religious state and is a very rational state actor for instance. The problem is Israel and it’s western lackeys undermining any attempt to make a successful Arab democracy which could compete with them.

I view myself as both. The Russian Communist Party would be seen as fascist by most western liberals for instance. I think Hitler not being a socialist is revisionism and not the good kind. China today deals with big business... even Lenin did! The Nazis saw it as battle for national self determination against imperialist powers.
The Nazis were imperialist, they used the common excuse of "protecting minorities" to annex the Sudetenland and other territorial gains. You still ignored my point that is that Nazis are about race war, whereas socialists are about class war.

By religous nutjobs, I meant that Syria would become filled with ISIS and other terrorist groups much like Iraq did if it wasn't for strong, authoritarian leadership. The Muslim world, especially the Arab world, is years, and years behind the western world. The same amount of books translated into Spanish in the last six years are the same amount of books translated into Arabic in the last 1,000 years.

The thing is is that there are so many divisions within the muslim world between sunnis and shias etc there will never be unity. The only way I can see is pan arabism, much like what Gadaffi wanted, a unified Arab state, from Aden to Aleppo, from Marakecch to Mosul, from Riyadh to Rabat. That would drastically change the situation, but even so, it would only be able to compete as a secular Ba'athist state.
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