A new political party and its manifesto Watch

The Mogg
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The first word of the title of this manifesto is all I needed to be able to disagree with it.
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Physikoi
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(Original post by Charlie4789)
It's only the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you're not lying in your own ****, dying at 43 with rotten teeth.
can i stay at ur flat , mark?
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Alt Tankie
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#43
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(Original post by kali8603)
The Nazis were imperialist, they used the common excuse of "protecting minorities" to annex the Sudetenland and other territorial gains. You still ignored my point that is that Nazis are about race war, whereas socialists are about class war.

By religous nutjobs, I meant that Syria would become filled with ISIS and other terrorist groups much like Iraq did if it wasn't for strong, authoritarian leadership. The Muslim world, especially the Arab world, is years, and years behind the western world. The same amount of books translated into Spanish in the last six years are the same amount of books translated into Arabic in the last 1,000 years.

The thing is is that there are so many divisions within the muslim world between sunnis and shias etc there will never be unity. The only way I can see is pan arabism, much like what Gadaffi wanted, a unified Arab state, from Aden to Aleppo, from Marakecch to Mosul, from Riyadh to Rabat. That would drastically change the situation, but even so, it would only be able to compete as a secular Ba'athist state.
The Nazis were not imperialist, which is why among other reasons s Stalin felt comfortable allying with them. They were regaining former territory taken away by imperialist powers. There was a deal Made with Poland to give back the German speaking parts of Poland back to Germany until the U.K. got involved and along with France declare war on Germany and attempted to invade them.

It was both a class war AND a race war with the Nazis who were actually far less white supremacist than colonial Britain or segregationist US. They even had Muslims and Indians in the SS: the idea that they genocided anyone who wasn’t pure 100% Aryan is a demonstrably false Hollywood myth. It was primarily war of national self determination.
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Sure. But our Zionist overlords won’t allow that to happen. The same way they didn’t with Germany in the 30s
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kali8603
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#44
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
The Nazis were not imperialist, which is why among other reasons s Stalin felt comfortable allying with them. They were regaining former territory taken away by imperialist powers. There was a deal Made with Poland to give back the German speaking parts of Poland back to Germany until the U.K. got involved and along with France declare war on Germany and attempted to invade them.

It was both a class war AND a race war with the Nazis who were actually far less white supremacist than colonial Britain or segregationist US. They even had Muslims and Indians in the SS: the idea that they genocided anyone who wasn’t pure 100% Aryan is a demonstrably false Hollywood myth. It was primarily war of national self determination.
——————

Sure. But our Zionist overlords won’t allow that to happen. The same way they didn’t with Germany in the 30s
I'm very aware of the Free Foreign Legions the Nazis had, it had nothing to do with them being less white supremacist. Let's be honest here. The only reason why they had Indians and Muslims in the SS was because of the whole concept of "our enemy's enemy is our friend" was very much true for the peoples of colonial North Africa, the Middle East and India. White europeans such as british, russians and ukranians also fought for the nazis.

And of course, they didn't genocide every one who was 100% aryan because no one actually is . I am English, so germanic, but very nordic (also germanic), but am also part Slavic, Spanish, Jewish, Irish and Finnish.

You still haven't come to the fact that the Nazis were anti communist and anti jewish.

Yes, undoubtedly they partly hated communism because it was seen as a "Jewish ideology". But they hated jews. It's one thing hating a minority, but to actually genocide them like the nazis did? Yes, britain did also carry out genocides, but not so systematically and not on the scale as nazi germany did it.

Don't try and play the whole thing about jews taking it out of proportion, or the whole jews deserved it because they control the world or something like that. Most socialists were originally jewish. Marx was a Jew. Trotsky was a jew. Lenin was half jewish. Antisemitism was a crime punishable by death in the USSR. The USSR had a jewish autonomous oblast to.

How can you support both the USSR and Nazi germany?

Stalin only sided with the Nazis because they wanted to annex parts of eastern europe without annoying the germans, and just in general preventing a war that would be destructive for the USSR. Some even suggest though that the USSR would invade nazi germany anyway without provocation.

I know of no actual tankie or any socialist for that matter that supports nazi germany.
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Alt Tankie
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#45
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(Original post by kali8603)
I'm very aware of the Free Foreign Legions the Nazis had, it had nothing to do with them being less white supremacist. Let's be honest here. The only reason why they had Indians and Muslims in the SS was because of the whole concept of "our enemy's enemy is our friend" was very much true for the peoples of colonial North Africa, the Middle East and India. White europeans such as british, russians and ukranians also fought for the nazis.

And of course, they didn't genocide every one who was 100% aryan because no one actually is . I am English, so germanic, but very nordic (also germanic), but am also part Slavic, Spanish, Jewish, Irish and Finnish.

You still haven't come to the fact that the Nazis were anti communist and anti jewish.

Yes, undoubtedly they partly hated communism because it was seen as a "Jewish ideology". But they hated jews. It's one thing hating a minority, but to actually genocide them like the nazis did? Yes, britain did also carry out genocides, but not so systematically and not on the scale as nazi germany did it.

Don't try and play the whole thing about jews taking it out of proportion, or the whole jews deserved it because they control the world or something like that. Most socialists were originally jewish. Marx was a Jew. Trotsky was a jew. Lenin was half jewish. Antisemitism was a crime punishable by death in the USSR. The USSR had a jewish autonomous oblast to.

How can you support both the USSR and Nazi germany?

Stalin only sided with the Nazis because they wanted to annex parts of eastern europe without annoying the germans, and just in general preventing a war that would be destructive for the USSR. Some even suggest though that the USSR would invade nazi germany anyway without provocation.

I know of no actual tankie or any socialist for that matter that supports nazi germany.
They were white nationalists rather than white supremacists. The difference being they were ethnopluralists that believed each race and culture should be self determined by its own people - Europe for the Europeans, Africa for the Africans and for the benefit of that people.

This is very different to the white supremacists if the British empire say who thought every bit of land should belong to Blighty and that their liberal values were universal. This still continues today with institutions such as the IMF, NATO etc telling countries how they should act and behave and sanctioning or invading those that resist.

They were anti capitalist. I would say they were anti Marxist but that does not necessarily mean anti communist as there are communists before Marx. They also admired and agreed with Marx about economics largely but disagreed with his liberalism and his materialist conception of history in particular which is also why they despised capitalism for turning everything into a commodity. Most of them were Christian.

They were anti jewish obviously, Germany following in the footsteps of 109 other countries who turned on the Jews for no rational reason whatsoever

All I will say about the Holocaust is that I do not deny it- because to do so would get me banned. The fact that it’s the only historical event to be illegal to question is also important. Churchill, Stalin and the Western press were/ are of course highly honest people who would never stoop to lies or propaganda about a defeated enemy.

I admire the USSR from 1945 onwards as it was preferable to what the west was becoming- this is why Eastern Europe is better off as a people than in Europe even if they are financially poorer- they have kept onto their identity and purpose.

in the west as Stalin took more control and made changes to the USSR - ending the mass slaughter of Christians, the destruction of the traditional family etc. During this point Russia became much more conservative as Jews began to leave with Prominent jewish trotskyists and Russian emigres became die hard neocons and objectivists almost instantaneously and realised that the US and Capitalism was more successful than the USSR.

The ussr indeed would have e invaded which is why Hitler struck first. A lot of Tankies are moving to the Alt Right, you should check out a pod caster called Eric Striker.
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kali8603
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
They were white nationalists rather than white supremacists. The difference being they were ethnopluralists that believed each race and culture should be self determined by its own people - Europe for the Europeans, Africa for the Africans and for the benefit of that people.

This is very different to the white supremacists if the British empire say who thought every bit of land should belong to Blighty and that their liberal values were universal. This still continues today with institutions such as the IMF, NATO etc telling countries how they should act and behave and sanctioning or invading those that resist.

They were anti capitalist. I would say they were anti Marxist but that does not necessarily mean anti communist as there are communists before Marx. They also admired and agreed with Marx about economics largely but disagreed with his liberalism and his materialist conception of history in particular which is also why they despised capitalism for turning everything into a commodity. Most of them were Christian.

They were anti jewish obviously, Germany following in the footsteps of 109 other countries who turned on the Jews for no rational reason whatsoever

All I will say about the Holocaust is that I do not deny it- because to do so would get me banned. The fact that it’s the only historical event to be illegal to question is also important. Churchill, Stalin and the Western press were/ are of course highly honest people who would never stoop to lies or propaganda about a defeated enemy.

I admire the USSR from 1945 onwards as it was preferable to what the west was becoming- this is why Eastern Europe is better off as a people than in Europe even if they are financially poorer- they have kept onto their identity and purpose.

in the west as Stalin took more control and made changes to the USSR - ending the mass slaughter of Christians, the destruction of the traditional family etc. During this point Russia became much more conservative as Jews began to leave with Prominent jewish trotskyists and Russian emigres became die hard neocons and objectivists almost instantaneously and realised that the US and Capitalism was more successful than the USSR.

The ussr indeed would have e invaded which is why Hitler struck first. A lot of Tankies are moving to the Alt Right, you should check out a pod caster called Eric Striker.
Then why did the Nazis reference "Aryan Supremacy" in just about every other subject. Questioning the holocaust is stupid. Its only illegal in some countries.

You're saying the US and capitalism is more successful than socialism?

Hitler was not a christian, and most christian traditions were either Nazified or outright banned. Christmas was banned under Hitler.

Jewish people in Germany were pretty European. They are the same skin colour, and most of them had the same values as fellow Germans.

Are you a strasserist or something? You sound like one, and your profile pic looks similar to the symbol generally assosciated with strasserist.s I know someone who was a strasserist, then a leftnat and now they're a leftcom.

You're wrong, socialism and Nazism are very different. Every aspect of Nazism is based on race. Socialism is class, and is an egalitarian ideology.

Anyone who believes Nazism is a form of socialism is deluded. Usually its dumb conservatives, but I'm very surprised to see someone who is supportive of socialism and the Nazi policies.

If you're such a great believer in your views, get yourself banned. I've been banned several times. Supposedly for antisemitism, but that was just criticising Israel.

Holocaust denial is stupid, the evidence is all there.
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kali8603
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#47
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#47
Just because in theory the Nazis may have been "anti capitalist", that doesn't mean an anti capitalist should support them. You could in theory argue that groups like ISIS are "anti imperialist" (maybe not specifically ISIS given that they effectively want to create an islamic empire, but maybe say the Taliban). Yet I don't see any actual anti imperialists supporting terrorist groups.
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kali8603
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#48
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#48
(Original post by naem071)
"As mentioned, the SFGB is committed to a hybrid socialist system that incorporates economic centralisation along with the free market."

- That just sounds like the Chinese 'communist' model, about as socialist as investment banking.

"The government will ban gender changing treatments or hormone stopping treatments on the NHS for anyone under the age of 30."

- What?

"We would create a new type of prison. Prisoners would be housed in the open air or in cabins on areas of land, doing tasks such as farming and working in factories."

- This isn't new, these are called labour camps and their track record isn't so great.

"Their tenants will be given full right to complain, and if the landlord does not provide an adequate response to these claims, the property may be seized by the local authorities."

- A tad extreme to seize property that the landlord rightfully owns.

"Abortions will continue to be governed by the same laws, but parents will only be entitled to 1 abortion, unless in exceptional circumstances."

- Restricting abortion doesn't play out well, regardless of how you go about it.

"In terms of religion, the SFGB will pursue a secular Christian nation."

- Marx said religion was the opiate of the people, a generator of inequality and the inhibitor of social change. Seems odd for a socialist party to want to uphold religious traditions at a state level.

"We would also support President Assad."

- Christ on a bike.
Maybe they are like "labour camps", but at least they will be an effective detterent. There's a reason why the soviet union had one of the lowest crime records. That, and the socialist model meant that people didnt' need to steal. They wouldn't be gulags though. They'd just be an effective way of hosuing large prisoners.

I would ban transgenderism completely, but I realise that some people will be unhappy about that. My policy seems very reasonable. Teens are incapable of making such decisions due to their age, and changing gender should be a serious issue rather than something done just because you feel something.
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kali8603
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#49
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#49
(Original post by The Mogg)
The first word of the title of this manifesto is all I needed to be able to disagree with it.
Okay liberal
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The Mogg
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#50
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(Original post by kali8603)
Okay liberal
Liberal :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You've got to be kidding me.
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kali8603
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#51
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#51
(Original post by The Mogg)
Liberal :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You've got to be kidding me.
it's just something socialists say to anyone regarding of whether they're actually a liberal or not. of course i know you're not a liberal
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The Mogg
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(Original post by kali8603)
it's just something socialists say to anyone regarding of whether they're actually a liberal or not. of course i know you're not a liberal
I'd have thought socialists would say something like "Okay conservative" or something else on the opposite wing of the spectrum.
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Alt Tankie
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#53
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(Original post by kali8603)
Then why did the Nazis reference "Aryan Supremacy" in just about every other subject. Questioning the holocaust is stupid. Its only illegal in some countries.

You're saying the US and capitalism is more successful than socialism?

Hitler was not a christian, and most christian traditions were either Nazified or outright banned. Christmas was banned under Hitler.

Jewish people in Germany were pretty European. They are the same skin colour, and most of them had the same values as fellow Germans.

Are you a strasserist or something? You sound like one, and your profile pic looks similar to the symbol generally assosciated with strasserist.s I know someone who was a strasserist, then a leftnat and now they're a leftcom.

You're wrong, socialism and Nazism are very different. Every aspect of Nazism is based on race. Socialism is class, and is an egalitarian ideology.

Anyone who believes Nazism is a form of socialism is deluded. Usually its dumb conservatives, but I'm very surprised to see someone who is supportive of socialism and the Nazi policies.

If you're such a great believer in your views, get yourself banned. I've been banned several times. Supposedly for antisemitism, but that was just criticising Israel.

Holocaust denial is stupid, the evidence is all there.
They had pride in being european sure. That’s no bad thing as long as it’s kept to european countries or countries settled by Europeans.

For Zionist interests yes absolutely.

Lol. They didn’t try and ban Christmas they wantEd to make it less commercialised. They also wanted to make the church more unified rather than have many different sects.

Lol nope. If you think race is about skin colour then I don’t know what to tell you frankly. Albino black people are still African 😂

This is a symbol from North Korea 😂 i’m A third positionist or national communist.

Sure. But every race and culture practises socialism differently. Look at say Maoism -this is informed by Chinese culture and values.

Oh your definitely a huge anti Semite for criticising Israel you deserve to get banned.,
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AstronautID
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#54
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Perhaps, a number of questions answered in this thread could be added to the Manifesto as the answers refine your stance.
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Alt Tankie
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#55
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Tankie have s choice

Embrace third positionist ideas - anti war and anti capitalism

Or they can join the liberal ‘left’ And embrace neoliberalism and attack anyone who doesn’t support trans surgeries for kids
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Napp
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
I am militantly pro free speech but there is a difference between free speech and serious actual calls for violence.

Eg I think somebody should be allowed to say ‘all black people should be forcibly deported from the country’ which would be regarded as a hate crime and get you in trouble.

What I don’t support is somebody calling on their followers to violently kill any black people they see on the street, which should never and HAS never been acceptable except in circumstances which any right thinking person can understand eg if it’s in parody or in a film etc .,
My point was more you can’t be for pure free speech yet then say you don’t like certain people expressing opinions. With a more subtextual point being the government has labelled all sort of people who aren’t terrorists as terrorists (most recently Hezbollah) ergo I will happily ignore the governments guides in such.
Free speech is only free speech if it has no hind stance to it though, partially free speech is thus ipso facto not free
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naem071
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#57
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(Original post by kali8603)
Maybe they are like "labour camps", but at least they will be an effective detterent. There's a reason why the soviet union had one of the lowest crime records. That, and the socialist model meant that people didnt' need to steal. They wouldn't be gulags though. They'd just be an effective way of hosuing large prisoners.

I would ban transgenderism completely, but I realise that some people will be unhappy about that. My policy seems very reasonable. Teens are incapable of making such decisions due to their age, and changing gender should be a serious issue rather than something done just because you feel something.
Those shifty transgenders, the sworn enemy of the socialist!

You're entering the highway through to loony land, it's time to turn back or lose your marbles entirely.
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kali8603
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Tankie have s choice

Embrace third positionist ideas - anti war and anti capitalism

Or they can join the liberal ‘left’ And embrace neoliberalism and attack anyone who doesn’t support trans surgeries for kids
You can be anti war and anti capitalist as a Marxist or socialist. Did Stalin support gays? No, he didn't, yet he definitely wasn't a fascist. In fact, most socialist countries are still socially conservative. I'm against transgenderism, and the main communist party in Britain, the CPGB-ML is too. It's only western marxists who seem to think that these radlib ideas are acceptable
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kali8603
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#59
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(Original post by naem071)
Those shifty transgenders, the sworn enemy of the socialist!

You're entering the highway through to loony land, it's time to turn back or lose your marbles entirely.
Transgenderism is dangerous, and is a bourgeousis concept. When have you ever seen a working class transgender?. I don't think it should be banned completey, but under 21s at least should be banned from changing gender. Seems veyr reasonable.
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kali8603
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#60
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#60
(Original post by The Mogg)
I'd have thought socialists would say something like "Okay conservative" or something else on the opposite wing of the spectrum.
Well it's not really as catchy, and we kind of did it because conservatives and libertarians used to just say "okay liberal", so we've kind of reclaimed it
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