Stigma around childless women
Why does society place this massive stigma against childless women?
Most are not childless because of infertility. Some are childless because they chose to be a long time ago. Others are childless due to the circumstances they have been in. For example having to move to a different city and ending their relationship. Some have been in relationships that failed, and as a result they made the best decision to not have a child with a man they are not happy with, or if the man isn't happy with her.
I mean if you were in a situation where you found out your partner cheated, you wouldn't want a child with him.
Some of them maybe just didn't meet anyone they mutually clicked with, and the years rolled on so they were so busy with work and it just didn't happen in time. Everyone's circumstances are different.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549297/Third-of-graduate-women-will-be-childless.html
This newspaper article says that a third of graduate women are childless. So it's really not uncommon.
Most are not childless because of infertility. Some are childless because they chose to be a long time ago. Others are childless due to the circumstances they have been in. For example having to move to a different city and ending their relationship. Some have been in relationships that failed, and as a result they made the best decision to not have a child with a man they are not happy with, or if the man isn't happy with her.
I mean if you were in a situation where you found out your partner cheated, you wouldn't want a child with him.
Some of them maybe just didn't meet anyone they mutually clicked with, and the years rolled on so they were so busy with work and it just didn't happen in time. Everyone's circumstances are different.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549297/Third-of-graduate-women-will-be-childless.html
This newspaper article says that a third of graduate women are childless. So it's really not uncommon.
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Original post by Carlo96
Why does society place this massive stigma against childless women?
Most are not childless because of infertility. Some are childless because they chose to be a long time ago. Others are childless due to the circumstances they have been in. For example having to move to a different city and ending their relationship. Some have been in relationships that failed, and as a result they made the best decision to not have a child with a man they are not happy with, or if the man isn't happy with her.
I mean if you were in a situation where you found out your partner cheated, you wouldn't want a child with him.
Some of them maybe just didn't meet anyone they mutually clicked with, and the years rolled on so they were so busy with work and it just didn't happen in time. Everyone's circumstances are different.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549297/Third-of-graduate-women-will-be-childless.html
This newspaper article says that a third of graduate women are childless. So it's really not uncommon.
Most are not childless because of infertility. Some are childless because they chose to be a long time ago. Others are childless due to the circumstances they have been in. For example having to move to a different city and ending their relationship. Some have been in relationships that failed, and as a result they made the best decision to not have a child with a man they are not happy with, or if the man isn't happy with her.
I mean if you were in a situation where you found out your partner cheated, you wouldn't want a child with him.
Some of them maybe just didn't meet anyone they mutually clicked with, and the years rolled on so they were so busy with work and it just didn't happen in time. Everyone's circumstances are different.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549297/Third-of-graduate-women-will-be-childless.html
This newspaper article says that a third of graduate women are childless. So it's really not uncommon.
I think stigma is only from certain people and these days its much less so because women have careers and provide for themselves. Deciding to have children can be a choice, so I dont see it as anyone elses business. Not something that would concern me.
I can remember being childless for a long time in my marriage before deciding to have children. Our friends used to keep joking about it and I just thought “it’s none of your business “. They had babies and I said why should I? And they said we don’t want to suffer alone. So they were secretly jealous because we kept going to fancy restaurants and had nice holidays.
If people don’t want children, that is their choice.
Imagine being a child whose parents resent you and don’t really want you. I say that because I was one of those children
If people don’t want children, that is their choice.
Imagine being a child whose parents resent you and don’t really want you. I say that because I was one of those children
I think, hopefully at least, the stigma is getting less and less as generations change. Some people find it difficult to respect women as actual, autonomous, human beings rather than just baby-making machines.
Original post by Oxford Mum
Imagine being a child whose parents resent you and don’t really want you. I say that because I was one of those children
Completely agree. But I will admit that I have questioned this in myself. Kids are really demanding and the sacrific on all levels is massive. But underlying it all is a deep sense of satisfaction and security. Something I never felt before kids.
Original post by josh75
Its an evolved function to propagate the species, also most women in general will want kids so society also evolved this mentality to protect them before they do something they will regret.
How do you know they'll regret it? Having children is alright for some but not for others. Why would you want something which cries, screams, ****s all the time and costs thousands of pounds? Not to mention the years of wasted youth and stress. If anything it's a wonder that people actually do want children.
It’s part of living in a society. Any society worth its salt exists to continue its own existence. Part of that involves the making and raising of children. People who choose not to take on that role voluntarily are viewed as not properly engaging in society.
We live in very luxurious times where you are perfectly free to choose not to do that. You are however choosing not to engage in a crucial aspect of society and that will result in some ostracisation. Deal with it.
We live in very luxurious times where you are perfectly free to choose not to do that. You are however choosing not to engage in a crucial aspect of society and that will result in some ostracisation. Deal with it.
Original post by James23121
How do you know they'll regret it? Having children is alright for some but not for others. Why would you want something which cries, screams, ****s all the time and costs thousands of pounds? Not to mention the years of wasted youth and stress. If anything it's a wonder that people actually do want children.
Because human beings are built for responsibility. An easy life with no responsibility is protracted adolescence. It’s not fulfilling, it doesn’t actually give meaning or contentment that sustains a person. That’s why most people actually want and are satisfied by having children.
Original post by limetang
Because human beings are built for responsibility. An easy life with no responsibility is protracted adolescence. It’s not fulfilling, it doesn’t actually give meaning or contentment that sustains a person. That’s why most people actually want and are satisfied by having children.
And having children gives meaning? Nope. We'll die. They'll die. Eventually no-one will even remember humans even existed. As far as I can see the only point to life is in fact to enjoy it. Responsibility is overrated.Working until you drop to provide for offspring isn't fulfilling either.
Original post by limetang
It’s part of living in a society. Any society worth its salt exists to continue its own existence. Part of that involves the making and raising of children. People who choose not to take on that role voluntarily are viewed as not properly engaging in society.
We live in very luxurious times where you are perfectly free to choose not to do that. You are however choosing not to engage in a crucial aspect of society and that will result in some ostracisation. Deal with it.
We live in very luxurious times where you are perfectly free to choose not to do that. You are however choosing not to engage in a crucial aspect of society and that will result in some ostracisation. Deal with it.
Not really. A society is formed of many components. It needs scientists as much as it needs warriors. If a woman is not engaged in making babies it just means she has some other role to play in society.
Original post by James23121
How do you know they'll regret it? Having children is alright for some but not for others. Why would you want something which cries, screams, ****s all the time and costs thousands of pounds? Not to mention the years of wasted youth and stress. If anything it's a wonder that people actually do want children.
Correction, alright for the vast majority of people and not for the minority. The reason why people want kids is because family's offer real meaning and purpose to your life that most people cannot attain from their career because what they do is not important enough. Your adult youth will only last for about 20 years but you will have to live for another 40, if you arent hyper focused on your work, like a CEO of fortune 500 company focused; that wakes up at 6 and works till 10; has no friends or social life; but is ok with it, you will most likely not be satisfied with your life without kids. Family brings real purpose to life that other things do not for most people.
Original post by josh75
Correction, alright for the vast majority of people and not for the minority. The reason why people want kids is because family's offer real meaning and purpose to your life that most people cannot attain from their career because what they do is not important enough. Your adult youth will only last for about 20 years but you will have to live for another 40, if you arent hyper focused on your work, like a CEO of fortune 500 company focused; that wakes up at 6 and works till 10; has no friends or social life; but is ok with it, you will most likely not be satisfied with your life without kids. Family brings real purpose to life that other things do not for most people.
Not really. Even if you don't have kids yourself you can still have nephews/nieces and partners. You can still have friends. If your only meaning in life comes from kids that says more about you than other people. There are tons of interesting things to do in this world. There are plenty of things to see. Indeed there is more to do and see than can ever be done. To suggest life is meaningless without kids is nonsense.Many careers can give life meaning as well. Not just finance. I'm sure being a doctor or a scientist is plenty meaningful for instance.
Original post by Carlo96
Why does society place this massive stigma against childless women?
Most are not childless because of infertility. Some are childless because they chose to be a long time ago. Others are childless due to the circumstances they have been in. For example having to move to a different city and ending their relationship. Some have been in relationships that failed, and as a result they made the best decision to not have a child with a man they are not happy with, or if the man isn't happy with her.
I mean if you were in a situation where you found out your partner cheated, you wouldn't want a child with him.
Some of them maybe just didn't meet anyone they mutually clicked with, and the years rolled on so they were so busy with work and it just didn't happen in time. Everyone's circumstances are different.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549297/Third-of-graduate-women-will-be-childless.html
This newspaper article says that a third of graduate women are childless. So it's really not uncommon.
Most are not childless because of infertility. Some are childless because they chose to be a long time ago. Others are childless due to the circumstances they have been in. For example having to move to a different city and ending their relationship. Some have been in relationships that failed, and as a result they made the best decision to not have a child with a man they are not happy with, or if the man isn't happy with her.
I mean if you were in a situation where you found out your partner cheated, you wouldn't want a child with him.
Some of them maybe just didn't meet anyone they mutually clicked with, and the years rolled on so they were so busy with work and it just didn't happen in time. Everyone's circumstances are different.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549297/Third-of-graduate-women-will-be-childless.html
This newspaper article says that a third of graduate women are childless. So it's really not uncommon.
Traditionally, the focus in society has been on women's role as child-bearers. Women were seen as mothers and wives and nothing else. I think that perhaps there is a remnant of this mentality, particularly (though by no means exclusively) amongst older people, that is still working it's way through our society, and which still has a surprising amount of power to shape perceptions. Raising children was one of the most important stages in anyone's life, and many are still struggling to adjust to a world where people no longer feel the same need to have kids, more traditional people perhaps feel as if childless women are 'missing a step' in their lives, and are not completing an important process. They don't understand that children necessarily mean as much to younger generations as they did in the past. Hopefully, more tolerant attitudes will prevail in the future, as the younger more liberal generations start to come of age.
Also why do people never refer to men as childless men, but they always refer to women as childless women?
Why is it that the man who chose to not have kids is seen as independent and career driven, rather than the woman who is seen as shame in society?
Also as the data suggests, it's rapidly increased in this generation and over one in three graduate women will not have kids. It's not like a tiny minority.
Why is it that the man who chose to not have kids is seen as independent and career driven, rather than the woman who is seen as shame in society?
Also as the data suggests, it's rapidly increased in this generation and over one in three graduate women will not have kids. It's not like a tiny minority.
Original post by James23121
Not really. Even if you don't have kids yourself you can still have nephews/nieces and partners. You can still have friends. If your only meaning in life comes from kids that says more about you than other people. There are tons of interesting things to do in this world. There are plenty of things to see. Indeed there is more to do and see than can ever be done. To suggest life is meaningless without kids is nonsense.Many careers can give life meaning as well. Not just finance. I'm sure being a doctor or a scientist is plenty meaningful for instance.
Yes really most people choose to have children and most of those that don't regret it. Childless women:"81 percent plan or hope to have children one day." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22803225. The science is clear. Having nephews or neices or partners is not the same as starting a family, becuase its not about having people in your life that love you specifically its about the deep primal responsibility starting a family brings.
"There are tons of interesting things to do in this world. There are plenty of things to see. Indeed there is more to do and see than can ever be done." this stuff is like desert, yes its nice but it wont bring you real fulfillment and if you spend your life doing all this stuff instead of seeking out responsibility like having a family or performing some high intensity and high value job you will end up depressed.
"To suggest life is meaningless without kids is nonsense" I didn't say this at all, do not rephrase my sentences; my word choices are specific for a reason.
"Many careers can give life meaning as well. Not just finance. I'm sure being a doctor or a scientist is plenty meaningful for instance." The CEO thing was an example, yes being a scientist can give your life meaning if your Einstein or Steven hawking or Newton; but for most of them no. Most scientist write papers that are never cited by anyone, and are at best employed to maintain an air of academia and a buffer so that when the next Newton comes along they will have enough academic freedom to do what they need to do to change the world.
At the end of the day life fulfillment come from responsibility and for most there is no more important responsibility than starting a family and having kids.
As someone who is infertile and gay the stigma gets me down tbh.
In the day and age when everyone is banging on about plastic straws and saving the planet it's ridiculous that women are ridiculed for not having kids when it's one of the most eco friendly things you can do.
In the day and age when everyone is banging on about plastic straws and saving the planet it's ridiculous that women are ridiculed for not having kids when it's one of the most eco friendly things you can do.
Original post by Carlo96
Also why do people never refer to men as childless men, but they always refer to women as childless women?
Why is it that the man who chose to not have kids is seen as independent and career driven, rather than the woman who is seen as shame in society?
Also as the data suggests, it's rapidly increased in this generation and over one in three graduate women will not have kids. It's not like a tiny minority.
Why is it that the man who chose to not have kids is seen as independent and career driven, rather than the woman who is seen as shame in society?
Also as the data suggests, it's rapidly increased in this generation and over one in three graduate women will not have kids. It's not like a tiny minority.
But 2 in 3 graduate women will have children that not a small number.
Original post by josh75
Yes really most people choose to have children and most of those that don't regret it. Childless women:"81 percent plan or hope to have children one day." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22803225. The science is clear. Having nephews or neices or partners is not the same as starting a family, becuase its not about having people in your life that love you specifically its about the deep primal responsibility starting a family brings.
"There are tons of interesting things to do in this world. There are plenty of things to see. Indeed there is more to do and see than can ever be done." this stuff is like desert, yes its nice but it wont bring you real fulfillment and if you spend your life doing all this stuff instead of seeking out responsibility like having a family or performing some high intensity and high value job you will end up depressed.
"To suggest life is meaningless without kids is nonsense" I didn't say this at all, do not rephrase my sentences; my word choices are specific for a reason.
"Many careers can give life meaning as well. Not just finance. I'm sure being a doctor or a scientist is plenty meaningful for instance." The CEO thing was an example, yes being a scientist can give your life meaning if your Einstein or Steven hawking or Newton; but for most of them no. Most scientist write papers that are never cited by anyone, and are at best employed to maintain an air of academia and a buffer so that when the next Newton comes along they will have enough academic freedom to do what they need to do to change the world.
At the end of the day life fulfillment come from responsibility and for most there is no more important responsibility than starting a family and having kids.
"There are tons of interesting things to do in this world. There are plenty of things to see. Indeed there is more to do and see than can ever be done." this stuff is like desert, yes its nice but it wont bring you real fulfillment and if you spend your life doing all this stuff instead of seeking out responsibility like having a family or performing some high intensity and high value job you will end up depressed.
"To suggest life is meaningless without kids is nonsense" I didn't say this at all, do not rephrase my sentences; my word choices are specific for a reason.
"Many careers can give life meaning as well. Not just finance. I'm sure being a doctor or a scientist is plenty meaningful for instance." The CEO thing was an example, yes being a scientist can give your life meaning if your Einstein or Steven hawking or Newton; but for most of them no. Most scientist write papers that are never cited by anyone, and are at best employed to maintain an air of academia and a buffer so that when the next Newton comes along they will have enough academic freedom to do what they need to do to change the world.
At the end of the day life fulfillment come from responsibility and for most there is no more important responsibility than starting a family and having kids.
See you keep saying fulfillment comes from responsibility but I don't see any evidence that's the case. Yes some people with responsibility are filled but many others are not. There are plenty of people living meaningless unfulfilled lives who have kids and plenty without kids who live meaningful lives. You are just making unsupported assertions here.
(edited 4 years ago)
Society holds stigmas on practically everything and anything at one point or other. I don't understand why it's anyone's business whether a woman wants to have children or not. Honestly, I don't - they are stressful, full one and they wreck your body too throughout the pregnancy. Yes humans have to keep the species going but, there are enough people in this world (seeing as we are majorly overpopulated) so isn't it a good thing that some do not want to have any? Less people suffering from hunger or poverty etc.
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