Curious as to why UK universities have ridiculously low medical places
Note: This is from the perspective of non UK person and non medical person.
I have friends and extended family living in London who have all told me how competitive medicine in the UK is. A year on TSR has confirmed that. Medicine really is very competitive in the UK. The standard of most medicine applicants is also quite good from what I've seen. A bit of looking through confis that in general UK universitiess have a very low acceptance rate for medicine. I'm also under the impression that UK has a shortage of doctors, nurses and GPs. If the NHS (I think that's what it's called?) really does have a shortage of medical staff (I just read an article where a hospital has to turn patients away because of a lack of staff), doesn't it make sense to slightly increase the acceptance rate for medicine? I'm aware that medicine is something that holds the life if other people but it's not like everyone who gets rejected is incapable of becoming a doctor. It almost looks like the problems isn't a lack of funding (which is what usually the problem always is) but a lack of manpower. But the UK does have the potential to fulfil that. Doesn't it make sense for the medical intake to increase a bit?
Or is the cost of training someone to become a doctor higher than the benefit they bring once they become doctors?
Am I missing something here?
I have friends and extended family living in London who have all told me how competitive medicine in the UK is. A year on TSR has confirmed that. Medicine really is very competitive in the UK. The standard of most medicine applicants is also quite good from what I've seen. A bit of looking through confis that in general UK universitiess have a very low acceptance rate for medicine. I'm also under the impression that UK has a shortage of doctors, nurses and GPs. If the NHS (I think that's what it's called?) really does have a shortage of medical staff (I just read an article where a hospital has to turn patients away because of a lack of staff), doesn't it make sense to slightly increase the acceptance rate for medicine? I'm aware that medicine is something that holds the life if other people but it's not like everyone who gets rejected is incapable of becoming a doctor. It almost looks like the problems isn't a lack of funding (which is what usually the problem always is) but a lack of manpower. But the UK does have the potential to fulfil that. Doesn't it make sense for the medical intake to increase a bit?
Or is the cost of training someone to become a doctor higher than the benefit they bring once they become doctors?
Am I missing something here?
It’s a very important job that requires top quality people to do. I think it’s good that they have high requirements because it’s not for everyone. E.g doctors need to be able to identify issues etc which requires lots of previous work
Original post by OR321
It’s a very important job that requires top quality people to do. I think it’s good that they have high requirements because it’s not for everyone. E.g doctors need to be able to identify issues etc which requires lots of previous work
There's no evidence that restricting the number of places in medical schools improves the quality of subsequent doctors in the NHS. If anything, the opposite would be true by limiting the number of available incoming doctors, you're reducing the scalability and training of future doctors and forcing the system to put resources into fewer individuals with a higher drop-out rate. One of the merits in the US system is the lengthened courses, greater flexibility and increased cohort sizes makes it very clear for medical students to commit to their career as their priority.
Furthermore, you could also argue a case that quality should improve should more students be trained in the UK, since the overwhelming majority of doctors that get struck from the register were foreign-trained.
Original post by ferrus_manus
There's no evidence that restricting the number of places in medical schools improves the quality of subsequent doctors in the NHS. If anything, the opposite would be true by limiting the number of available incoming doctors, you're reducing the scalability and training of future doctors and forcing the system to put resources into fewer individuals with a higher drop-out rate. One of the merits in the US system is the lengthened courses, greater flexibility and increased cohort sizes makes it very clear for medical students to commit to their career as their priority.
Furthermore, you could also argue a case that quality should improve should more students be trained in the UK, since the overwhelming majority of doctors that get struck from the register were foreign-trained.
Furthermore, you could also argue a case that quality should improve should more students be trained in the UK, since the overwhelming majority of doctors that get struck from the register were foreign-trained.
ok.
Because of costs ultimately. It costs on average £200000-£250000 to train a doctor. The balancing is between places and the quality of training. If the number of places increases, the cost would still have to be the £250000 so huge increases might mean budgeting for this amount per student might not be possible.
Also, bear in mind the number of places is increasing albeit by small amounts every year so that the government can manage to keep up with the demand of doctors whilst keeping the costs per student the same as to not compromise the quality of learning.
Increasing the acceptance rate isn't how to tackle a shortage. We want doctors/students who are passionate about the vocation with both good academic and decent communication skills. Chances will increase inevitably with the higher number of places but remember people applying has also seen an upward trend in the last 3 years too so competition rates may stay similar to previous years.
In an ideal world, I wish there could be more medical students and doctors but financial constraints, as well as multiple other factors, means that competition will always be high. American medical school applications are still very competitive to regardless of the high number of places so it is intentionally a tough process so the most suitable candidates are selected.
Perhaps a current doctor like can explain why more clearly
Also, bear in mind the number of places is increasing albeit by small amounts every year so that the government can manage to keep up with the demand of doctors whilst keeping the costs per student the same as to not compromise the quality of learning.
Increasing the acceptance rate isn't how to tackle a shortage. We want doctors/students who are passionate about the vocation with both good academic and decent communication skills. Chances will increase inevitably with the higher number of places but remember people applying has also seen an upward trend in the last 3 years too so competition rates may stay similar to previous years.
In an ideal world, I wish there could be more medical students and doctors but financial constraints, as well as multiple other factors, means that competition will always be high. American medical school applications are still very competitive to regardless of the high number of places so it is intentionally a tough process so the most suitable candidates are selected.
Perhaps a current doctor like can explain why more clearly
(edited 4 years ago)
Not everyone can be a doctor, but I doubt the accurate number of people who would make good doctors is currently what it is.
Let's not kid ourselves that medicines arbitrarily high entry requirements are for anything less than being an arbitrary filter for choosing people to do something that is expensive for the nation.
We need more doctors. We are not putting the money into training them. Therein is the issue.
NHS workforce planning is a case study in disaster
Let's not kid ourselves that medicines arbitrarily high entry requirements are for anything less than being an arbitrary filter for choosing people to do something that is expensive for the nation.
We need more doctors. We are not putting the money into training them. Therein is the issue.
NHS workforce planning is a case study in disaster
Bring back the apprenticeship model of medical education maybe? :')
I think the current system we have is the best of what we could get, but I do think we should loosen grade requirements to allow applicants to make up points elsewhere to maintain competitive. The best doctors aren't necessarily the people getting A*AA, nomsayin.
I think the current system we have is the best of what we could get, but I do think we should loosen grade requirements to allow applicants to make up points elsewhere to maintain competitive. The best doctors aren't necessarily the people getting A*AA, nomsayin.
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