Burton Bridge
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Vinny C)
Better than constantly running off to Brussels, beating your chest like Tarzan chanting 17.4 million, then running back again. How Boris can compare himself to the Hulk... rofl. Boris the Blob would be closer.
Back to brilliance again. I guess you don't have any detail?
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Rakas21
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#22
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#22
At this stage it is too late to unify the country behind a form of Brexit such as we should have in 2017 when Norway would have been accepted.

Today the Remoaners have seen too much hope and no longer care about the referendum while leavers view something as soft as Norway as impure and something the Remoaners want to trap us with.

Since the EU cannot give up the backstop without shafting Ireland we have reached the point at which it is No Deal or Revoke. A compromise solution is unlikely to be sustained because the good will is gone.

This won’t be a post World War Two style consensus where all parties agree on the future path, this I am afraid is a Peel or Thatcher type reshaping of the consensus. One forced upon the other side by the electorate giving one side or the other large majorities as either a reward or condemnation of what comes in the next weeks.
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L i b
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Rakas21)
At this stage it is too late to unify the country behind a form of Brexit such as we should have in 2017 when Norway would have been accepted.

Today the Remoaners have seen too much hope and no longer care about the referendum while leavers view something as soft as Norway as impure and something the Remoaners want to trap us with.

Since the EU cannot give up the backstop without shafting Ireland we have reached the point at which it is No Deal or Revoke. A compromise solution is unlikely to be sustained because the good will is gone.

This won’t be a post World War Two style consensus where all parties agree on the future path, this I am afraid is a Peel or Thatcher type reshaping of the consensus. One forced upon the other side by the electorate giving one side or the other large majorities as either a reward or condemnation of what comes in the next weeks.
The problem with Norway is presumably that it doesn't answer the Irish border question - and Norway + Customs Union is a new relationship so close to membership that it gets silly.

I do think we need some sort of bespoke deal. The EEA arrangement has necessarily evolved to accommodate the countries involved, who have quite different economies from the UK.
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Rakas21
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#24
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#24
(Original post by L i b)
The problem with Norway is presumably that it doesn't answer the Irish border question - and Norway + Customs Union is a new relationship so close to membership that it gets silly.

I do think we need some sort of bespoke deal. The EEA arrangement has necessarily evolved to accommodate the countries involved, who have quite different economies from the UK.
I agree that Norway is a flawed model (though I think submitting to the single market would have required only small customs amendments for NI since we’d be agreeing to regulation on say hormonal beef) but my point was to say that before the 2017 election a consensus across politics was there to honour a Leave vote and so a more or less off the shelf model like Norway would have been acceptable for some time.

I agree and bar the lack of a unilateral exit mechanism May’s deal is close enough despite its own flaws however I just don’t think the conditions are present to sustain an agreement any more. If we sign it today then the next leader post Boris May well argue that it should be ripped up while the next labour leader may well argue for going back into the EU. As I suggest, the good will is simply gone.
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Vinny C
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Back to brilliance again. I guess you don't have any detail?
The detail would be dependant on others, even I can't predict a boxing match blow by blow. Concessions would have to be focussed around what most reflected public concerns, eg. immigration. The Vote Leave campaign exposed as a sham, the Be Leave leaders exposed as liars and charlatans. You're right about one thing, elites have been exposed and discredited... they're called the ERG!
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Vinny C
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#26
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#26
Warned you not to invite me...
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Burton Bridge
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Vinny C)
The detail would be dependant on others, even I can't predict a boxing match blow by blow. Concessions would have to be focussed around what most reflected public concerns, eg. immigration. The Vote Leave campaign exposed as a sham, the Be Leave leaders exposed as liars and charlatans. You're right about one thing, elites have been exposed and discredited... they're called the ERG!
Well they are going to tell you to F off mate, that's obvious. You are not getting any concessions the only way we are remaining is on worse conditions than Cameron negotiated. We will be lucky to keep our rebate, theres plenty in the EU that want that removed.
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Vinny C
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well they are going to tell you to F off mate, that's obvious. You are not getting any concessions the only way we are remaining is on worse conditions than Cameron negotiated. We will be lucky to keep our rebate, theres plenty in the EU that want that removed.
You may say f off... but not all leave voters. Well... we've finally found a way to stop the Hulk... a handful of middle aged hippies in blue berets and he runs a mile.
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imlikeahermit
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#29
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#29
I'd abandon this sorry mess once and for all. Revoke Article 50, and then actually start focusing on trying to improve what is left of this sorry state of a country, and on the issues that affect normal working people. For what it's worth, I'd start with a much tougher stance on crime.
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Napp
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Rakas21)
At this stage it is too late to unify the country behind a form of Brexit such as we should have in 2017 when Norway would have been accepted.

Today the Remoaners have seen too much hope and no longer care about the referendum while leavers view something as soft as Norway as impure and something the Remoaners want to trap us with.
I like how you talk about uniting the country yet you blame and belittle half of the population whilst elevating the other half of them, whom are a bunch of swivel eyed extremists.
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Vinny C
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Napp)
I like how you talk about uniting the country yet you blame and belittle half of the population whilst elevating the other half of them, whom are a bunch of swivel eyed extremists.
Much more fun to consider the Hulk run a mile from a handful of hippies in blue berets. Starting to feel sorry for him...
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Burton Bridge
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#32
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#32
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I'd abandon this sorry mess once and for all. Revoke Article 50, and then actually start focusing on trying to improve what is left of this sorry state of a country, and on the issues that affect normal working people. For what it's worth, I'd start with a much tougher stance on crime.
Thanks for the honest reply.

Before you go right wing on crime you need to make sure abilty to survive without it is available for everyone, that's the underbelly nobody wishes to view. However I agree with you but simply just getting tougher on crime will only make things worse, look at America.

Revoking A50 doesn't come without a price, it's a steep price and that, we are too far down the road for that. If remainer parliamentarians had got their act together we'd of had the BINO years ago, the ERG and would of cried and now everyinthing would be back to a new normal. But they have frustrated brexit and acted against the national interest.
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AW_1983
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#33
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#33
Instead of a second referendum, I would take the more democratic route and hold plebiscites in England and Wales where voters would be asked whether or not they wished to remain in the UK. The understanding would be that the UK is a member of the EU and in Scotland and Northern Ireland the matter is settled. England and Wales should be forced to choose whether they are in or out in a vote that reflects reality rather than the airy fairy bull**** that was voted for in 2016.
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Burton Bridge
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#34
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#34
(Original post by AW_1983)
Instead of a second referendum, I would take the more democratic route and hold plebiscites in England and Wales where voters would be asked whether or not they wished to remain in the UK. The understanding would be that the UK is a member of the EU and in Scotland and Northern Ireland the matter is settled. England and Wales should be forced to choose whether they are in or out in a vote that reflects reality rather than the airy fairy bull**** that was voted for in 2016.
Lord that's going to open up serious worm cans, haven't we done enough damage to our country with referendums?
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AW_1983
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Lord that's going to open up serious worm cans, haven't we done enough damage to our country with referendums?
Well, I think it would contain the problem to where it exists, in England. It's time to stop dragging the rest of the union into England's identity crisis.
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Burton Bridge
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#36
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#36
(Original post by AW_1983)
Well, I think it would contain the problem to where it exists, in England. It's time to stop dragging the rest of the union into England's identity crisis.
That's a little bit of a misleading statement, there was millions of people who voted leave in NI,Wales and Scotland.
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Vinny C
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#37
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#37
Annexe the Irish Republic... backstop solved!
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AW_1983
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
That's a little bit of a misleading statement, there was millions of people who voted leave in NI,Wales and Scotland.
Yes, but the rules that the Brexiters follow is that the losing side doesn't count and no one gives a toss what they want. So in Scotland and Northern Ireland, Leavers don't count in the same way as I don't count as a Remainer in England.
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Vinny C
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#39
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#39
May we examine facts? Who still wants Brexit? A small group of Tory extremists and the rebranded UKIP racists. I infiltrate their ranks and get ridiculous comments such as 98% of people I talked to just want to get it over with and leave with no deal! How much longer must we put up with total *******s and bull**** from these liars? It was a campaign of lies and deception, the leaders are exposed as charlatans and still they follow the chant of democracy? They care nothing of democracy... they care only about getting their own way.
Last edited by Vinny C; 4 weeks ago
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Burton Bridge
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Vinny C)
May we examine facts? Who still wants Brexit? A small group of Tory extremists and the rebranded UKIP racists. I infiltrate their ranks and get ridiculous comments such as 98% of people I talked to just want to get it over with and leave with no deal! How much longer must we put up with total *******s and bull**** from these liars? It was a campaign of lies and deception, the leaders are exposed as charlatans and still they follow the chant of democracy? They care nothing of democracy... they care only about getting their own way.
Load of total nonsense, you can spout a lie a thousand times but its doesn't make it any more true.
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