Burton Bridge
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#61
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#61
(Original post by AW_1983)
Your suggestion that Remainers have frustrated Brexit is absolute rubbish. At worst, they've forced the government to deliver something that in some way resembles what Leave voters opted for in 2016 instead of the absolute shambles that was the Withdrawal Deal and - prior to that - May's efforts for a Brexit in Name Only that, after being told where to go by Juncker, turned into the silly Lancaster House speech that left May with no room for manouvre in the negotiations.

The problem is Brexit is a stupid idea with no detailed plans for implementation. That's why we are at this impasse, because when three Brexiters were appointed to the key roles to deliver, all three failed to come up with anything workable.

And one final point. You advocate for democracy whilst ignoring freedom. That's a dangerous path to go down, letting the majority decide on matters by plebiscite. Brexit as a policy, because all the promises of 'they need us more than we need them' and the fanciful claims that we could keep access to the single market without freedom of movement and all the other nonsense have obviously not come to pass, now does nothing except erode the freedoms of British people for no tangible benefit. Do you really want to live in a country where people fuelled by envy can hold plebiscites to curtail the freedoms of others for no other reason than spite, which is what Brexit has become?
Well at least we have cleared up regards wales.

What have remainers done if not frustrated Brexit? Could I ask if you have read May's deal? In many ways its exactly what the country voted for, it was exactly mk1 what the labour party wanted, mv2 maybe not. Why reject a permanent customs union,regulatory alignment, taffif free trade and access to the single market when you have been campaigning for those very things just called different names if they are not acting machiavellian?

Corbyn, We want a permanent customs union. May, we want a permanent backstop. It's the same thing and some people are too politically unaware to understand this!

You're last paragraph is just weird and down right incorrect. I'm not and have never advocated for direct democracy within parliamentary democracy, it dont work so the last thing I want is a series of plebiscites! In my view the 2016 referendum shouldn't have happened I campaigned passionate about not elected david Camerons conservatives in 2015, if ed Miliband would of won the country would have been so much richer, stronger and fairer today. However the past did happen the can of worms is open and parliamentarians in general need to take their blindfold off and deal with they have caused. So you are completely wrong about me there and you continue to be wrong by saying quote

" promises of 'they need us more than we need them' and the fanciful claims that we could keep access to the single market without freedom of movement and all the other nonsense have obviously not come to pass"

I think you are being blinded by you're political heros so much you cannot see what is actually happening.
1) if they dont need us more than we need them, they have took a strange decision to move drastically to rip up red lines they have had for years in a matter of a few weeks, until parliamentarians scuppered the progress with the benn act.
2) Parliamentarians (mainly remain) have just rejected a deal 2 times which gives us access to the single market without freedom of movement, you clearly do not fully understand what you are saying, which ironically is what naive remainers say to me!
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QE2
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
1) What is you're solution to unite the country and get on with real life policies. If you had control to do so but was answerable to the uk electorate.
It's like Lord of the Rings. Brexit can only be destroyed where it was forged - in the terrible fires of Mount Referendoom!
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QE2
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Vinny C)
May we examine facts? Who still wants Brexit? A small group of Tory extremists and the rebranded UKIP racists. I infiltrate their ranks and get ridiculous comments such as 98% of people I talked to just want to get it over with and leave with no deal! How much longer must we put up with total *******s and bull**** from these liars? It was a campaign of lies and deception, the leaders are exposed as charlatans and still they follow the chant of democracy? They care nothing of democracy... they care only about getting their own way.
Darn. Just used my rep on your "annexe Ireland" comment.
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QE2
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Andrew97)
Wales also voted to leave.
Apparently only because of English immigrants, according to a recent study. Oh, the delicious irony!
Amongst native Welsh, the vote was majority Remain.
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QE2
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Of course it is, a life outside the European union is not ridiculous at all its perfectly viable
Life without the internet/beer/foreign holidays is not ridiculous at all its perfectly viable. Does that mean it is therefore desirable?

Reality is wales gains money from the United kingdom and without it would be significantly worse off, to the contrary the European union costs wales money.
More nonsense. Wales benefits massively from EU funding. Cash that the government has said it will not be replacing.

Furthermore, the decision in wales by the electorate in Wales was to Leave the European Union. This was won Leave 52.5% 854,572 Votes vs Remain 47.5%772,347 Votes. I afraid you are talking out your hat
Only because of English immigrants.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rexit-research
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Burton Bridge
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#66
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#66
(Original post by QE2)
Life without the internet/beer/foreign holidays is not ridiculous at all its perfectly viable. Does that mean it is therefore desirable?


More nonsense. Wales benefits massively from EU funding. Cash that the government has said it will not be replacing.


Only because of English immigrants.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rexit-research
You are taking my words out if context as usual, what is desirable and what is possible are two different things, I was talking to another poster who claimed a life outside the EU was ridiculous more ridiculous than an inpendantant wales, It isn't! Furthermore what desirable to you is not necessarily desirable to others.

You must have great psychic abilities, to know what every person in Wales was thinking when they made their vote, also to know the travel history of voters.

Why is it on every topic you speak of immigration gets brought up, by you?
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Burton Bridge
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#67
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#67
(Original post by QE2)
It's like Lord of the Rings. Brexit can only be destroyed where it was forged - in the terrible fires of Mount Referendoom!
Brilliance, instead of smarty pant non constructive comments breaking forum rules, why dont you post an on topic post and enlighten us with you're brexit solution?

As the OP I'd like to keep this thread friendly and on topic, thank you very much
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Andrew97
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#68
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#68
(Original post by QE2)
Apparently only because of English immigrants, according to a recent study. Oh, the delicious irony!
Amongst native Welsh, the vote was majority Remain.
Your point being?
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Vinny C
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Load of total nonsense, you can spout a lie a thousand times but its doesn't make it any more true.
Rofl... you may argue that not all Brexiteers were motivated by age, bigotry and stupidity but if only 2% were... that swung it! I suspect the real figure to be closer to 20%. I see Cummings is still pulling the strings... divide and conquer! Art of War scenario no.5. They just dare not turn on him, he knows too much! Btw... shouldn't you have said humbug?
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Burton Bridge
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Vinny C)
Rofl... you may argue that not all Brexiteers were motivated by age, bigotry and stupidity but if only 2% were... that swung it! I suspect the real figure to be closer to 20%. I see Cummings is still pulling the strings... divide and conquer! Art of War scenario no.5. They just dare not turn on him, he knows too much! Btw... shouldn't you have said humbug?
What a nonsense argument, if leavers 2% were looney then that makes the vote void. Forgetting there are an equal (if not higher) a amount of looney remainers making up their vote.

The art of compromise is absent from modern politics
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Vinny C
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
What a nonsense argument, if leavers 2% were looney then that makes the vote void. Forgetting there are an equal (if not higher) a amount of looney remainers making up their vote.

The art of compromise is absent from modern politics
Agreed... Cummings, Farage and the Leave campaign removed it. They turned it into bigotry, lies and deception! The recent comments from Johnson were worthy of Enoch Powell himself.
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Burton Bridge
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Vinny C)
Agreed... Cummings, Farage and the Leave campaign removed it. They turned it into bigotry, lies and deception! The recent comments from Johnson were worthy of Enoch Powell himself.
Semi agree regarding Farage, however you are deliberatly missing the fact you're side are equally as incapable of compromise.

Regarding the language recently, I think humbug was the wrong word to use and he was wrong to use it. A better word to use may be hypocrite!

Last night the bench in the commons shouting 'liar' 'Fascist' at johnson on the same day while complaining about derogatory campaign words like 'traitor' and 'surrender' sounds a tad hypocritical to me, no?

That's with out even mentioning the year of degoratory campaign lies about 'brexit bombs', 'cliff edges' 'crash the plane into the cliff' and even the 'end if western democracy'.

It does not make Johnson right, but if you are throwing stones unanswered for a year, expect the tolance of the victim to run out and throw a few back at. If that happens dont cry the blues.
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barnetlad
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Vinny C)
Agreed... Cummings, Farage and the Leave campaign removed it. They turned it into bigotry, lies and deception! The recent comments from Johnson were worthy of Enoch Powell himself.
He made racist comments, and effectively ended debate on migration for 40 years, but Enoch Powell would never have sought to shut down Parliament in the way that Mr Johnson tried to. He also would not have used language such as the Surrender Act.
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barnetlad
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Semi agree regarding Farage, however you are deliberatly missing the fact you're side are equally as incapable of compromise.

Regarding the language recently, I think humbug was the wrong word to use and he was wrong to use it. A better word to use may be hypocrite!

Last night the bench in the commons shouting 'liar' 'Fascist' at johnson on the same day while complaining about derogatory campaign words like 'traitor' and 'surrender' sounds a tad hypocritical to me, no?

That's with out even mentioning the year of degoratory campaign lies about 'brexit bombs', 'cliff edges' 'crash the plane into the cliff' and even the 'end if western democracy'.

It does not make Johnson right, but if you are throwing stones unanswered for a year, expect the tolance of the victim to run out and throw a few back at. If that happens dont cry the blues.
Mr Johnson has used offensive language or comments for years, even if some of the comments I think he may not believe.
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Vinny C
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#75
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#75
(Original post by barnetlad)
Mr Johnson has used offensive language or comments for years, even if some of the comments I think he may not believe.
His script is still written by Cummings, such is obvious. Sooner they get rid of the toxic dwarf, the better... but they dare not. He knows too much!
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Burton Bridge
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#76
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#76
(Original post by barnetlad)
He made racist comments, and effectively ended debate on migration for 40 years, but Enoch Powell would never have sought to shut down Parliament in the way that Mr Johnson tried to. He also would not have used language such as the Surrender Act.
Johnson did not shut it down to stop parliament doing their job or the surrender benm act would not be passed and calling that the surrender act us no different to the 'cliff edges' 'crash the plane into the cliff' 'end of western democracy' and other fallacious catchphrases. In fact in my eyes it's far more accurate than them.

I do agree that language needs to be controlled, parliamentarians should not be shouting lair, fascist or using a murder of an MP to political point score or call victims of hate crimes "humbug".

But again it seems the selectively of the outrage of remainers is being highlighted here again, what's good for the goose is good ...
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barnetlad
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Vinny C)
His script is still written by Cummings, such is obvious. Sooner they get rid of the toxic dwarf, the better... but they dare not. He knows too much!
Please have some respect for shorter persons- the only short people I know of are good people. Though Dominic Cummings I agree should be sacked.
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Vinny C
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#78
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#78
(Original post by barnetlad)
Please have some respect for shorter persons- the only short people I know of are good people. Though Dominic Cummings I agree should be sacked.
Ty... but they dare not upset him. If he went to the Telegraph... he knows enough to blow the lid off the ERG! Expect him to meet with an unfortunate accident... much like Lady Di.
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AW_1983
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well at least we have cleared up regards wales.

What have remainers done if not frustrated Brexit? Could I ask if you have read May's deal? In many ways its exactly what the country voted for, it was exactly mk1 what the labour party wanted, mv2 maybe not. Why reject a permanent customs union,regulatory alignment, taffif free trade and access to the single market when you have been campaigning for those very things just called different names if they are not acting machiavellian?

Corbyn, We want a permanent customs union. May, we want a permanent backstop. It's the same thing and some people are too politically unaware to understand this!

You're last paragraph is just weird and down right incorrect. I'm not and have never advocated for direct democracy within parliamentary democracy, it dont work so the last thing I want is a series of plebiscites! In my view the 2016 referendum shouldn't have happened I campaigned passionate about not elected david Camerons conservatives in 2015, if ed Miliband would of won the country would have been so much richer, stronger and fairer today. However the past did happen the can of worms is open and parliamentarians in general need to take their blindfold off and deal with they have caused. So you are completely wrong about me there and you continue to be wrong by saying quote

" promises of 'they need us more than we need them' and the fanciful claims that we could keep access to the single market without freedom of movement and all the other nonsense have obviously not come to pass"

I think you are being blinded by you're political heros so much you cannot see what is actually happening.
1) if they dont need us more than we need them, they have took a strange decision to move drastically to rip up red lines they have had for years in a matter of a few weeks, until parliamentarians scuppered the progress with the benn act.
2) Parliamentarians (mainly remain) have just rejected a deal 2 times which gives us access to the single market without freedom of movement, you clearly do not fully understand what you are saying, which ironically is what naive remainers say to me!
No, I think you're too damn frit to demand what you voted for. This is what pisses me off the most about Brexiters. They all claim to have known what they voted for, but they never demand the delivery of what was promised in 2016! Where are all those trade deals? Why are we still negotiating a deal with the EU that was meant to take 24 hours? Where is that £350m a week for the NHS? Why haven't Germany capitulated to carry on selling us cars?

Etc etc etc. Brexiters have so little backbone that if they bought a chocolate icecream, they'd sooner accept a turd in a Tupperware masquerading as such than humiliate themselves by accepting vanilla. Pathetic, each and every one of them.
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QE2
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
You must have great psychic abilities, to know what every person in Wales was thinking when they made their vote, also to know the travel history of voters.
Erm, you clearly didn't read the link about the study by an Oxford professor. Duh! Remember that some of us actually provide evidence for our claims rather than just pulling stuff out of our
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