What will actually happen if we stay in the EU? Watch

Burton Bridge
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The question remainers live to dodge, I found this on Facebook, copy paste from below.


WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.

There we go, unfortunately the writer of the above is not 100% accurate because we are already signed up to the Lisbon treaty I believe but the question of what will happen if we remain is a very important one m, every remainer is currently ducking
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RiaWombat
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https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-li...-treaty-wrong/
Yeah so most of that was nonsense
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by RiaWombat)
https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-li...-treaty-wrong/
Yeah so most of that was nonsense
Cheers mate I'll have a read if that
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Dez
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No wonder people are so deluded about Brexit if they get hoodwinked by this kind of claptrap.

Only a braindead simpleton could take a BS facebook post like this at face value. Just searching for Lisbon Treaty on Google will tell you it's actually been in force since 2009, not 2020. The rest of this stupid list is just as bad, and easily refuted. Gotta love that Project Fear eh?
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999tigger
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
The question remainers live to dodge, I found this on Facebook, copy paste from below.


WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.

There we go, unfortunately the writer of the above is not 100% accurate because we are already signed up to the Lisbon treaty I believe but the question of what will happen if we remain is a very important one m, every remainer is currently ducking

You should go through that list and point out which bits are incorrect or delete it.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by 999tigger)
You should go through that list and point out which bits are incorrect or delete it.
Looking at it mate that might be a big task lol!

I don't think that's necessary the first post was a good one which provides the full facts https://fullfact.org/europe/viral-li...-treaty-wrong/
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 weeks ago
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Dez)
No wonder people are so deluded about Brexit if they get hoodwinked by this kind of claptrap.

Only a braindead simpleton could take a BS facebook post like this at face value. Just searching for Lisbon Treaty on Google will tell you it's actually been in force since 2009, not 2020. The rest of this stupid list is just as bad, and easily refuted. Gotta love that Project Fear eh?
Only a simpleton throws insults around without fully reading the post. I said Unfortunately the writer of the above is not 100% accurate because we are already signed up to the Lisbon treaty.

I still believe but the question of what will happen if we remain is a very important one, that is currently being ducked.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Only a simpleton throws insults around without fully reading the post. I said Unfortunately the writer of the above is not 100% accurate because we are already signed up to the Lisbon treaty.

I still believe but the question of what will happen if we remain is a very important one, that is currently being ducked.
Neither side have covered themselves in glory over this issue; Leave because of "fake news" like the Facebook entry you found and Remain because this is a genuine live issue which Remain has failed to address.

Remain say (and I have said it numerous times) that no-one was misled in 1975. "Ever closer union" was there in the Treaty of Rome from the beginning long before we signed up to it. However the collorary of that is that it is not enough for Remain to justify the EU as it now is; Remain has to justify the EU as it will realistically evolve.

To replace your Facebook post, this is the EU's strategic agenda for the next five years

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/medi...-2019-2024.pdf

It is fair to say that it is written in the opaque language of Kremlinology.

What does it really mean? Some bits are intelligible to laymen:-

"A consensus needs to be found on
the Dublin Regulation to reform it based on a balance of
responsibility and solidarity, taking into account the persons
disembarked following Search and Rescue operations."


Means every EU has to pull their weight in taking Mediterrean refugees and can't leave it all to Italy, Malta and Greece.

Other bits are less clear:-

Does:-

"We will take the necessary steps to ensure
proper functioning of Schengen."

mean the French and the Swedes should stop playing silly beggars on the Italian and Danish frontiers or does it mean the EU will squeeze the pips out of the Germans or anyone else who tries to pull the stunt Merkel did in 2015 with the Turkish border.

And what does:

"The EU cannot afford to under-utilise the potential
of a market of half a billion people, particularly in the area
of services"


mean?
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Andrew97
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Although the OP is over dramatic, anyone thinking we can just revoke A50 and carry on as if the referendum never happened I think is deluded.

In my opinion, if we do leave, and then wish to rejoin. The demands will be unreasonable.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Although the OP is over dramatic, anyone thinking we can just revoke A50 and carry on as if the referendum never happened I think is deluded.

In my opinion, if we do leave, and then wish to rejoin. The demands will be unreasonable.
There are two different situations there; revoking Article 50 is not the same as leaving and rejoining.
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Andrew97
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
There are two different situations there; revoking Article 50 is not the same as leaving and rejoining.
I know.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Although the OP is over dramatic, anyone thinking we can just revoke A50 and carry on as if the referendum never happened I think is deluded.

In my opinion, if we do leave, and then wish to rejoin. The demands will be unreasonable.
It was a copy/paste I did say the text was not 100% accurate.

If we revoke now the impact on the British will be so damaging, the real winners will be the minority of looney leavers who actually do have the racist undertones.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Although the OP is over dramatic, anyone thinking we can just revoke A50 and carry on as if the referendum never happened I think is deluded.

In my opinion, if we do leave, and then wish to rejoin. The demands will be unreasonable.
I think the only way we'd revoke Article 50 is if they refused an extension. Yellowhammer suggests some MSs are trying to be difficult. Revocation takes the whole threat of refusing extension off the cards.
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Retired_Messiah
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(Original post by Dez)
No wonder people are so deluded about Brexit if they get hoodwinked by this kind of claptrap.

Only a braindead simpleton could take a BS facebook post like this at face value. Just searching for Lisbon Treaty on Google will tell you it's actually been in force since 2009, not 2020. The rest of this stupid list is just as bad, and easily refuted. Gotta love that Project Fear eh?
How people even get such nonsense to appear in their feeds rather than the tirade of memes I get is beyond my understanding.

(Original post by Andrew97)
Although the OP is over dramatic, anyone thinking we can just revoke A50 and carry on as if the referendum never happened I think is deluded.

In my opinion, if we do leave, and then wish to rejoin. The demands will be unreasonable.
If we revoke article 50 we don't 'leave' at all, so 'rejoining' isn't an issue. Possible damage to future negotiating position if we want favourable terms on specific treaties maybe? It's revoking article 50 without any kind of democratic mandate that'd turn politics into a shambles, hence most "REMOANERS" advocating for people's vote on some form of final deal

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Only a simpleton throws insults around without fully reading the post. I said Unfortunately the writer of the above is not 100% accurate because we are already signed up to the Lisbon treaty.

I still believe but the question of what will happen if we remain is a very important one, that is currently being ducked.
The answer to what happens if we remain boils down to "basically nothing", as we have enough veto power to avoid buying into any initiatives that are stupid. Or at least that's as far as my understanding goes: anything I've seen about negatives of staying have either been overblown paranoia (MUH EU ARMY/UNITED STATES OF EUROPE) or fake af lists like the one in your OP.

It's possible I'd be proved wrong, but most of the experts on EU stuff I know are remainers. Coincidence? Perhaps, but it might also be telling.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
The question remainers live to dodge, I found this on Facebook, copy paste from below.


WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.

There we go, unfortunately the writer of the above is not 100% accurate because we are already signed up to the Lisbon treaty I believe but the question of what will happen if we remain is a very important one m, every remainer is currently ducking
But conversely, on 31st of October many import prices will rise by 20+%. Assuming they clear customs.

All project fear I hear. Except that is the assessmentof our do or die government.

Surely you didn't vote for that?

Its the economy stupid!
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Dez
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Only a simpleton throws insults around without fully reading the post. I said Unfortunately the writer of the above is not 100% accurate because we are already signed up to the Lisbon treaty.
I don't really care what you have to say, to be honest. The FB post is probably 10% accurate at best, given most of it is just emotive crap designed to make people angry and fearful.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I still believe but the question of what will happen if we remain is a very important one, that is currently being ducked.
It is a big unknown at this point, like every other course of action available to the UK. The country has long gone past the point of avoiding any negative impact from Brexit I think. Even if we were to cancel A50 tomorrow, we'd probably still be cleaning up the mess of this government's stupidity a decade from now.

(Original post by Retired_Messiah)
How people even get such nonsense to appear in their feeds rather than the tirade of memes I get is beyond my understanding.
:dontknow: I stopped using Facebook years ago cause it was basically just chock-full of ads, even the stuff supposed to be from my friends was basically just ads they'd interacted with somehow. Complete waste of time.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Dez)
I don't really care what you have to say, to be honest. The FB post is probably 10% accurate at best, given most of it is just emotive crap designed to make people angry and fearful.



It is a big unknown at this point, like every other course of action available to the UK. The country has long gone past the point of avoiding any negative impact from Brexit I think. Even if we were to cancel A50 tomorrow, we'd probably still be cleaning up the mess of this government's stupidity a decade from now.
Paragraph 1
Likewise, so don't throw stones from glass houses

Paragraph 2
This is the real topic I wanted too discuss. Well for months now but TSR don't like it. As you rightly point out the country has long since traveled past the point of no return on brexit. Revoke and remain is not a realistic option. I think the remainers in parliament really messed up by not voing in may deal mk1, that would of slicenced the xenophobic few and satisfied the politically disinterested majority of the country. Only the tiny minority leavers and remainers would still still cry, but they will cry regardless. Someone needs to get this brexit bomb sent to bed, make referendums illegal and start talking about real life issues.

I've just sat in a 3 hour meeting at work about Brexit, I'm sick to the back teeth of it. Best of it is every person in the room (including me)thought we was wasting company money and just want a bloody answer. No deal us better than no answer, it amazing we have any business left with our politicians
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Retired_Messiah)
How people even get such nonsense to appear in their feeds rather than the tirade of memes I get is beyond my understanding.


If we revoke article 50 we don't 'leave' at all, so 'rejoining' isn't an issue. Possible damage to future negotiating position if we want favourable terms on specific treaties maybe? It's revoking article 50 without any kind of democratic mandate that'd turn politics into a shambles, hence most "REMOANERS" advocating for people's vote on some form of final deal


The answer to what happens if we remain boils down to "basically nothing", as we have enough veto power to avoid buying into any initiatives that are stupid. Or at least that's as far as my understanding goes: anything I've seen about negatives of staying have either been overblown paranoia (MUH EU ARMY/UNITED STATES OF EUROPE) or fake af lists like the one in your OP.

It's possible I'd be proved wrong, but most of the experts on EU stuff I know are remainers. Coincidence? Perhaps, but it might also be telling.
Well it no that's not true, like many thing on the cut n paste, The answer to what happens if we remain is clearly not "basically nothing".


The obvious change Is the rise of the farage style threat led to a still harsher line on Europe? It's not like he wont have powerful and willing ally in many sections of the media. In the right-wing red tops for example. The voice of the people as they would claim.


Also our stature what kind of Britain would rejoin around the EU table? This would be a Britain that had voted to leave, and would be remaining on terms worse than those it had rejected by Cameron. Or would they still honour the the agreement negotiated by Cameron, would the other members allow this, the spoilt child returns home and keeps his/her toys and privileges over their siblings.


Then theres the cost. Most leavers already feel that the Eu is a expensive club to be in,but revoke remaining in that club would make it even more expensive. EU’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger last year made it clear that Britain would lose this rebate worth billions. There are quite simply people in the eu that want to make an example of Britain. I think the whole process from the EU side has been to make an example of Britain. If the 5th largest economy in the world can't leave the EU anybody else is quite simply screwed.


With this diminished power and lack of ability to leave the club. What realistic power would we have of controlling anything or exercising any of our supposed vetos? Any referendum result on any future changes that the EU decided to make as it moves into its more federalist direction. Which it is clearly going to make within the next few decades, that's obvious. This literally makes a mockery of any veto or referendum that we will have regarding future changes in the EU and whether to accept them or not, because if we vote not accept them we're effectively voting to leave. This is because the entire world knows we cant leave, so we will have to accept any scraps which get thrown our way.


Not leaving has a cost too, to suggest otherwise is naive and shortsighted. So If all negatives of staying have either been overblown paranoia (MUH EU ARMY/UNITED STATES OF EUROPE) or fake af lists like the one in your OP, try that list.
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Alt Tankie
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I’m ambivalent over we remain or stay, I think the mass revolt (which I support) against liberalism is coming either inside or out. Remaining in the EU is only delaying the inevitable.

Remainers are essentially like reactionary monarchists fighting for the divine right of kings in the early 20th century.

This century will be when liberalism dies as an ideology as it falls apart under its own contradictions.
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Ahh more of your crack pot propaganda i see.
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