Boris to prorogue again - rule by government without Parliament Watch

Fullofsurprises
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Boris's lawyers are telling the Supreme Court that he will simply prorogue Parliament again if he doesn't get his legal way this time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-case.html

Things are shaping up into a right wing coup d'etat. A PM nobody elected is planning to rule without Parliament. I have little doubt that this is the intention now.
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Archetypally
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Keen simply say he couldn't comment, there is no explicit statement of intent to do so, despite both your thread title and description leading me to believe otherwise.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Archetypally)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Keen simply say he couldn't comment, there is no explicit statement of intent to do so, despite both your thread title and description leading me to believe otherwise.
Refusing to rule out is pretty much a green light in politics speak.
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Archetypally
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Refusing to rule out is pretty much a green light in politics speak.
Seems like a weak excuse to justify blatantly misquoting an article.
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the bear
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since Parliament is refusing to carry out the Will of the People it is definitely sensible to sideline Parliament as a temporary measure.

once the UK has left the EU we can get back to normal operations.
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Andrew97
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No such announcement was made.
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josh75
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Boris's lawyers are telling the Supreme Court that he will simply prorogue Parliament again if he doesn't get his legal way this time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-case.html

Things are shaping up into a right wing coup d'etat. A PM nobody elected is planning to rule without Parliament. I have little doubt that this is the intention now.
I hate this remainder bs. Boris was elected, this is legal and your dishonest or heavily ignorant to our political system. You can argue this is unorthodox and yeah i would agree, but tbh so is so many of our MP's actively trying to stop brexit. Boris has never held no deal as his preferable option, but you remoaners in the media; parliament and in the rest of the country have made the air around the negations so toxic and defeatist in an attempt to stop brexit that this is our best option.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Refusing to rule out is pretty much a green light in politics speak.
But it isn’t in a courtroom.

The reason is simple. A politician can rule something out one day and do it the next: “Read My Lips: No New Taxes” “there will be no early general election under my leadership”.

Once an undertaking is given to a court, breach of it is a contempt of court.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
But it isn’t in a courtroom.

The reason is simple. A politician can rule something out one day and do it the next: “Read My Lips: No New Taxes” “there will be no early general election under my leadership”.

Once an undertaking is given to a court, breach of it is a contempt of court.
Given how political this case is, I wonder.

Anyway, even accepting what you say about this specific case, the writing is on the wall and it's increasingly looking like the Johnson cabal of Tory extremists intends to govern without recourse to Parliament, as we shall see in the coming weeks.
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Guru Jason
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Johnson is possibly the greatest hypocrite to hold such a position. How anyone can support him is beyond me.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Given how political this case is, I wonder.

Anyway, even accepting what you say about this specific case, the writing is on the wall and it's increasingly looking like the Johnson cabal of Tory extremists intends to govern without recourse to Parliament, as we shall see in the coming weeks.
I think it is unlikely that Boris, if he loses, would play silly beggars but in any event he may be faced with a choice between three options:-

1 continuing the moribund session semi-indefinately
2 having a short prorogation and bring forward the date of the state opening (inconveniencing the Queen)
3 continuing the moribund session until early October, then having a short prorogation followed by a new session on 14 October

One of the things the Supreme Court is going to consider is whether 1 and 3 are viable. The Court of Session seemed to think that the prorogation was void and Parliament would simply reassemble as though nothing had happened.

Personally that strikes me as a constitutional abomination. In my opinion Parliament has been prorogued. If that has happened because of the wrongdoing of the "Queen's evil counsellors", the Court should order them to reverse their advice to the Queen and tell her to summon Parliament to a new session on an early day. If that is right, only option 2 is possible. It is a constitutional axiom that the Queen can do no wrong; it is always the fault of her advisers.

Boris seems to be in trouble in the Supreme Court. It is difficult to see how he has got into this mess. It shouldn't have been difficult for him to win this case.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Boris's lawyers are telling the Supreme Court that he will simply prorogue Parliament again if he doesn't get his legal way this time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-case.html

Things are shaping up into a right wing coup d'etat. A PM nobody elected is planning to rule without Parliament. I have little doubt that this is the intention now.
In this case the right wing coup d'etat is fully sponsored by the main opposition parties who having had a chance to test his mandate declined in an attempt to play politics (it may work if we extend or just as likely it will make leavers even angrier).

(Original post by nulli tertius)
I think it is unlikely that Boris, if he loses, would play silly beggars but in any event he may be faced with a choice between three options:-

1 continuing the moribund session semi-indefinately
2 having a short prorogation and bring forward the date of the state opening (inconveniencing the Queen)
3 continuing the moribund session until early October, then having a short prorogation followed by a new session on 14 October

One of the things the Supreme Court is going to consider is whether 1 and 3 are viable. The Court of Session seemed to think that the prorogation was void and Parliament would simply reassemble as though nothing had happened.

Personally that strikes me as a constitutional abomination. In my opinion Parliament has been prorogued. If that has happened because of the wrongdoing of the "Queen's evil counsellors", the Court should order them to reverse their advice to the Queen and tell her to summon Parliament to a new session on an early day. If that is right, only option 2 is possible. It is a constitutional axiom that the Queen can do no wrong; it is always the fault of her advisers.

Boris seems to be in trouble in the Supreme Court. It is difficult to see how he has got into this mess. It shouldn't have been difficult for him to win this case.
Given the lack of a parliamentary majority with which to pass a Queens Speech and the inability of the Labour Party to command the confidence of the Liberal Democrats i would suggest that options 2 and 3 are incredibly messy, not least if they mean Boris is not leading the executive at the time of the EU summit.
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Le Male
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Boris's lawyers are telling the Supreme Court that he will simply prorogue Parliament again if he doesn't get his legal way this time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-case.html

Things are shaping up into a right wing coup d'etat. A PM nobody elected is planning to rule without Parliament. I have little doubt that this is the intention now.
You and your disgusting ilk have disobeyed the will of the people and treason gets what treason deserves. I hope we leave with no deal and we can crash the house prices in Londonistan by 40% so real British people can move back in rather than Arab billionaires and the low classes in social housing.
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barnetlad
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This is about the law and whether or not it allows Mr Johnson to go to the Queen. On this point I think he will be successful sadly, whatever the reasons for him proroguing the House. He is not willing to make a statement to the Court which I assume is so he cannot be held in contempt and be sent to prison (which would be unkind to other prisoners).

I would support the Queen sacking Mr Johnson as is permitted, especially as he has no majority in the House of Commons. Perfectly legal in my view, even though it has not been done for about 200 years.

Mr Johnson is the worst person to hold the office of Prime Minister at least since Lord North in the 18th century, if not of all time.
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Le Male
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(Original post by barnetlad)
This is about the law and whether or not it allows Mr Johnson to go to the Queen. On this point I think he will be successful sadly, whatever the reasons for him proroguing the House. He is not willing to make a statement to the Court which I assume is so he cannot be held in contempt and be sent to prison (which would be unkind to other prisoners).

I would support the Queen sacking Mr Johnson as is permitted, especially as he has no majority in the House of Commons. Perfectly legal in my view, even though it has not been done for about 200 years.

Mr Johnson is the worst person to hold the office of Prime Minister at least since Lord North in the 18th century, if not of all time.
She should just suspend parliament and force an election. It's hypocritical we have individuals such as yourself claiming the Queen agreeing to suspend parliament is anti-democratic, but in the same breath you want the Queen to just fire the prime minister because you don't like him.

Remain would have won the referendum if it kept the festering human excriment of the new middle class from shooting themselves in the foot every time they oppened their disgusting mouths.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by Le Male)
She should just suspend parliament and force an election. It's hypocritical we have individuals such as yourself claiming the Queen agreeing to suspend parliament is anti-democratic, but in the same breath you want the Queen to just fire the prime minister because you don't like him.

Remain would have won the referendum if it kept the festering human excriment of the new middle class from shooting themselves in the foot every time they oppened their disgusting mouths.
Firing Mr Johnson because of his behaviour and lack of a majority does not automatically mean a general election. Another Conservative Prime Minister could well restore membership to the 21 who were expelled (or the 19 who would want to be restored) and have an effective majority.

Michael Gove may be a rude man at times but he would not have done what Mr Johnson has done, and Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher definitely not. Neither would any of them dodge scrutiny- Michael Gove was prepared to face teachers at their annual conference when Education Secretary, for example.
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Zoqua
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(Original post by josh75)
I hate this remainder bs. Boris was elected, this is legal and your dishonest or heavily ignorant to our political system. You can argue this is unorthodox and yeah i would agree, but tbh so is so many of our MP's actively trying to stop brexit. Boris has never held no deal as his preferable option, but you remoaners in the media; parliament and in the rest of the country have made the air around the negations so toxic and defeatist in an attempt to stop brexit that this is our best option.
Wow. Talk about bs. If by 'toxic and defeatist' you mean using common sense and a basic understand of economics to tell you what is going to happen when we crash out of the EU without a deal, ruining the country and the prospects of my generation and generations to come, which will be entirely the fault of people like you, then yes. It's so funny to see Brexiteers calling remainers 'remoaners', which is not only just a petty insult that makes those who use it look even more immature than they appear beforehand, but is also rather ironic considering how they proceed to then whine, or some would say 'moan' about how it is all the fault of the 'remoaners' and so called 'liberal elite', in other words well educated people who have the audacity to disagree with the angry Brexiteer hoard.

'Boris has never held no deal as his preferable option' yeah right, proceeds to attempt to prevent any opposition to it. 'Boris was elected' yes, he was, by less than 1% of the population, very representative I have to say. There is no way that leaving without a deal is our 'best option', literally any other option would be better (preferably staying in the EU and deleting the Brexit mess created by Brexiteers over the past few years but life sucks like that and we don't live in a perfect world) than basically doing the equivalent of jumping off a cliff without a parachute and saying that your 'British spirit' will save you from the fall.

If the current political situation wasn't real, it would make a good comedy.
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Zoqua
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Boris's lawyers are telling the Supreme Court that he will simply prorogue Parliament again if he doesn't get his legal way this time.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exit-case.html

Things are shaping up into a right wing coup d'etat. A PM nobody elected is planning to rule without Parliament. I have little doubt that this is the intention now.
Very good insight, I wish there were more people who are actually politically aware in this world.
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username1421435
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(Original post by barnetlad)
Firing Mr Johnson because of his behaviour and lack of a majority does not automatically mean a general election. Another Conservative Prime Minister could well restore membership to the 21 who were expelled (or the 19 who would want to be restored) and have an effective majority.

Michael Gove may be a rude man at times but he would not have done what Mr Johnson has done, and Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher definitely not. Neither would any of them dodge scrutiny- Michael Gove was prepared to face teachers at their annual conference when Education Secretary, for example.
The 21 who were expelled had the whip removed after the defied party orders in the parliamentary vote... Johnson had already lost his majority when a Tory MP defected to the Lib Dems, so I fail to see how restoring membership to even all 21 of those would reinstate an effective majority
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Le Male
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(Original post by barnetlad)
Firing Mr Johnson because of his behaviour and lack of a majority does not automatically mean a general election. Another Conservative Prime Minister could well restore membership to the 21 who were expelled (or the 19 who would want to be restored) and have an effective majority.

Michael Gove may be a rude man at times but he would not have done what Mr Johnson has done, and Winston Churchill or Margaret Thatcher definitely not. Neither would any of them dodge scrutiny- Michael Gove was prepared to face teachers at their annual conference when Education Secretary, for example.
Gove, as bumbling and as feckless as he may have been was a gentlemen, but having dealt with the left and their scheming ways for decades the right has finally clocked on to the reality that they are gonna have to field streetfighters at every election. So until the left learns to display reason and civility, it will be streetfighters like Trump, Bibi, Johnson and Bolsonaro.
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