CatusStarbright
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Baron of Sealand)
How much independence do independents feel like they have in government? This applies to also the the independent Deputy Speaker who was in government last term. Aph as far as I remember was never an independent within a government, but if I misremember, you are welcome to answer this too.
Being an independent in government is a weird experience. On the one hand, you are free of party influence and have your own singular voice, but on the other hand you have to adhere to the government whip and can find that your voice is a little drowned out at times; which is due to the significant imbalance of power between yourself and your fellow government members who form the vast majority of the government.

For a perhaps more in-depth (and less simplified) discussion of my time in government as an independent, I would refer you to the latest edition of AdHoC where I contributed an article which engaged with this topic.
(Original post by 04MR17)
How easy was it to become an independent and would you recommend new users to MHoC start as independents, or should join a party first to try before going indie?
Well I became an independent (almost a year ago now!) because I was frankly a bit fed up with my party at the time and wanted a change. I sat down, thought about what I believed in and made my manifesto - not the one in the OP as that was my most recent one, but they're not that different except in design. I stood in a by-election a failed to win a seat, which I was expecting since by-elections are not favourable to independents as generally they use first-past-the-post to assign seats (though this may be changing in the future, who knows).

I then won my seat by standing in the December 2018 General Election, and then the June 2019, in which I won a seat both times. As I say, GEs are more independent-friendly and this is because they use proportional representation (using the d'Hondt method). Therefore, becoming an independent can take some time if you have to wait a while for a GE to win a seat.

I think it's certainly possible to begin with being an independent while you figure out how the House dynamics work and where you may fit in best. I believe JMR (the current Labour leader) began his career as an indie. However I don't think I would recommend this because learning how the House works and how to make legislation, etc. can be hard if you have nobody to guide you. I'd even extend this to knowing what kind of relationships exist between the parties of the House - watching internal conversations between more experienced members are very useful.

I think that on the whole the benefits of beginning within a party and having that support network cannot be denied.

Of course, if anyone is reading this and thinking they'd like to be an independent but I'm scaring them off, I'd say that I'm happy to act as that support and you can PM me any time if you want to begin as an independent but don't know how to go about it it all!
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Aph
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#22
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#22
(Original post by 04MR17)
How easy was it to become an independent and would you recommend new users to MHoC start as independents, or should join a party first to try before going indie?
I have stood as an independent a couple of times now. My first, I think, was when I had just left the Lib Dem’s for the first time, joined labour, got kicked out of labour within less than a day and decided I didn’t want to join the socialists. I didn’t win a seat then and that record continued until a few days ago when I won my first Independent seat by default. I believe I have stood as an independent candidate for MP 4-6 times now (although I’m not sure) so that tells you how hard I found it.

The difficulty in getting elected as an indie is that you are completely reliant on outside votes. Everyone in the house will be voting for themselves which means that somehow you need to convince people who aren’t involved and don’t care that you are worth voting for. If you hadn’t guessed that is quite hard, especially when you have a weird ideology like myself.

As for new people I’d suggest joining a party first. You need to know how things work, how to write a bill and how to not mess up in the house. Currently the only support systems for new players are in parties so as a newbie you can try to become independent but I imagine you’d probably fail at changing much. Especially when this house doesn’t analyse bills based on what they do but who submitted them.
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SoggyCabbages
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#23
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#23
The Right Honourable Aph

Upon joining the Libertarian Party you were widely ridiculed by many who did not perceive you as a Libertarian at all.

Time has moved on since then and you are now independent, others have also criticised your recent piece of legislation for being mass-nationalisation (let's not get into that on this post).

Out of 10 how Libertarian do you currently view yourself?
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Aph
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#24
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#24
(Original post by SoggyCabbages)
The Right Honourable Aph

Upon joining the Libertarian Party you were widely ridiculed by many who did not perceive you as a Libertarian at all.

Time has moved on since then and you are now independent, others have also criticised your recent piece of legislation for being mass-nationalisation (let's not get into that on this post).

Out of 10 how Libertarian do you currently view yourself?
That depends on how one defines libertarian-ness. I am to the Center right and socially liberal but I’m an unapologetic statist. I believe that libertarian means Center-right to right and being mostly socially liberal but believing in the state, in which case I would say 7-8. If you think that the current libertarian party exemplifies libertarian-ness then you think that to be libertarian is to be a socially conservative, statist ancap, in that case 0, maybe 1 at a push.
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Baron of Sealand
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#25
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#25
(Original post by CatusStarbright)
Being an independent in government is a weird experience. On the one hand, you are free of party influence and have your own singular voice, but on the other hand you have to adhere to the government whip and can find that your voice is a little drowned out at times; which is due to the significant imbalance of power between yourself and your fellow government members who form the vast majority of the government.

For a perhaps more in-depth (and less simplified) discussion of my time in government as an independent, I would refer you to the latest edition of AdHoC where I contributed an article which engaged with this topic.

Well I became an independent (almost a year ago now!) because I was frankly a bit fed up with my party at the time and wanted a change. I sat down, thought about what I believed in and made my manifesto - not the one in the OP as that was my most recent one, but they're not that different except in design. I stood in a by-election a failed to win a seat, which I was expecting since by-elections are not favourable to independents as generally they use first-past-the-post to assign seats (though this may be changing in the future, who knows).

I then won my seat by standing in the December 2018 General Election, and then the June 2019, in which I won a seat both times. As I say, GEs are more independent-friendly and this is because they use proportional representation (using the d'Hondt method). Therefore, becoming an independent can take some time if you have to wait a while for a GE to win a seat.

I think it's certainly possible to begin with being an independent while you figure out how the House dynamics work and where you may fit in best. I believe JMR (the current Labour leader) began his career as an indie. However I don't think I would recommend this because learning how the House works and how to make legislation, etc. can be hard if you have nobody to guide you. I'd even extend this to knowing what kind of relationships exist between the parties of the House - watching internal conversations between more experienced members are very useful.

I think that on the whole the benefits of beginning within a party and having that support network cannot be denied.

Of course, if anyone is reading this and thinking they'd like to be an independent but I'm scaring them off, I'd say that I'm happy to act as that support and you can PM me any time if you want to begin as an independent but don't know how to go about it it all!
Are there benefits to being in government as an independent then? Would you do it again?
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Baron of Sealand
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#26
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#26
(Original post by barnetlad)
There is a programme that I have agreed to as part of joining the government, and have had an input too. There are things that are not party political such as views on the death penalty or euthanasia, separate from government.
What are the benefits to being a part of a government as an independent?
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barnetlad
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Baron of Sealand)
What are the benefits to being a part of a government as an independent?
The ability to influence policy and have much of your manifesto supported.
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CatusStarbright
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Aph)
I have stood as an independent a couple of times now. My first, I think, was when I had just left the Lib Dem’s for the first time, joined labour, got kicked out of labour within less than a day and decided I didn’t want to join the socialists.
How on earth did you get kicked out of Labour in less than a day?
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CatusStarbright
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Baron of Sealand)
What are the benefits to being a part of a government as an independent?
I agree with what barnetlad said. Being in government is a change to amplify your voice as the policy you shape will have the near-guaranteed backing of at least, say, 14 seats, whereas without that you have the guaranteed support of just yourself.
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Aph
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#30
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#30
(Original post by CatusStarbright)
How on earth did you get kicked out of Labour in less than a day?
I was admitted by the leader, Ray apparently then complained to them (see what I did there ) so much that the leader at the time QQ acquiesced and kicked me subject to a confirmatory vote, I lost that... basically labour had personal issues with me.
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CatusStarbright
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Aph)
I was admitted by the leader, Ray apparently then complained to them (see what I did there ) so much that the leader at the time QQ acquiesced and kicked me subject to a confirmatory vote, I lost that... basically labour had personal issues with me.
I do see what you did there. Shame that happened, but I guess you shouldn't have really been admitted in the first place if that was the case.
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Rakas21
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#32
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#32
(Original post by barnetlad)
There is a programme that I have agreed to as part of joining the government, and have had an input too. There are things that are not party political such as views on the death penalty or euthanasia, separate from government.
Do you support the death penalty?
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The Mogg
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#33
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#33
May I ask barnetlad why he thinks Scotland should have another referendum on their independence? They had a referendum in 2014 and voted to stay, it was advertised by both sides as "a once in a generation vote" Correct me if I'm wrong but generations last longer than 5 years.
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barnetlad
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Rakas21)
Do you support the death penalty?
No I do not. Aside from any moral question, no justice system is perfect and we have seen miscarriages of justice over the years. I don't think it will deter terrorists, and I would be concerned that some juries would not convict murderers because some of them did not want to send someone to their death.
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barnetlad
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#35
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#35
(Original post by The Mogg)
May I ask barnetlad why he thinks Scotland should have another referendum on their independence? They had a referendum in 2014 and voted to stay, it was advertised by both sides as "a once in a generation vote" Correct me if I'm wrong but generations last longer than 5 years.
I think a second Scottish Independence referendum should happen assuming the UK leaves the EU, as this is a significant change. If by some unexpected turn there is a second EU referendum and the UK votes to remain, then I don't think there should be 'IndyRef 2'.
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Connor27
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#36
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#36
To ask CatusStarbright if she believes that the Citizens’ Party proposal still has potential to be formed?
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CatusStarbright
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Connor27)
To ask CatusStarbright if she believes that the Citizens’ Party proposal still has potential to be formed?
Technically yes. As far as I'm concerned it's a dormant project which could be revived when the time is right and we have the numbers.
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Jammy Duel
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#38
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#38
Which parties don't want you, and which parties don't you want (to be a part of)?
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Aph
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Which parties don't want you, and which parties don't you want (to be a part of)?
Labour and the libertarians probably both don’t want me but that’s because I’m not a commie and not a far-right extremist. I don’t want to join the Lib Dem’s or the conservatives.
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Connor27
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Aph)
Labour and the libertarians probably both don’t want me but that’s because I’m not a commie and not a far-right extremist. I don’t want to join the Lib Dem’s or the conservatives.
You’re an absolute meme if you think we want you xD
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