M558 – Motion on same sex marriage in Northern Ireland. Watch

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Andrew97
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M558 – Motion on Same-Sex Marriage in Northern Ireland, Barnetlad MP

This House notes that there is no provision for same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland, unlike in the Republic of Ireland, Wales, England and Scotland. This House notes that the Northern Ireland Assembly is suspended and not sitting and so cannot discuss this matter.

This House believes that the lack of an Assembly should not prevent matters of social policy such as this being considered. Should the Assembly not be re-convened by the end of 2019, this House believes that a referendum of the people in Northern Ireland on whether to have same-sex marriage should be held.
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Aph
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God please no. We're sick and tired of referenda.
Also why did the member not use the canon amendment to let this house sit as Stormont and act?
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barnetlad
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The reason for a referendum is so that the people of Northern Ireland decide. This is what happened in the Republic. The DUP and other unionist parties have had a veto on almost all decisions over the last 100 years, and seem only ever to say 'no'. There has been growing support for non-sectarian and cross-community parties, and to have a decision which the DUP cannot veto would also show that the people of Northern Ireland are not all stuck in the 18th century.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Aph)
God please no. We're sick and tired of referenda.
Also why did the member not use the canon amendment to let this house sit as Stormont and act?
This wouldn't affect you unless you happen to be an NI resident?
Why would we want to do that?
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CatusStarbright
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I'll be supporting this motion unless there are any convincing reasons why I should not.
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Connor27
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Nay - the petition of concern system that the DUP uses to block same sex marriage exists for a reason; to maintain the peace enforced by the Good Friday Agreement.

Let us not forget that loyalists AND republicans both undertook paramilitary action in the troubles, it was not just the IRA.

For Westminster to enforce this measure I fear could lead to a rise in loyalist paramilitarism and the return of the UDA.

If the member is willing to submit this as a bill under the canon amendment with this House sitting as the Stormont assembly I am happy to reconsider my vote; but I cannot in good conscience force this on the people of Ulster with my Westminster parliamentarian hat on.
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Connor27
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(Original post by CatusStarbright)
I'll be supporting this motion unless there are any convincing reasons why I should not.
Please refer to my post above. This is a sensitive sectarian issue and could lead to more paramilitary violence if imposed by Westminster.
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04MR17
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I abstain on most things concerning Northern Ireland as I'm not sure whether Westminster should have any control there at all.

Consider this an abstention for now.

(Please don't start a war with me on the Irish question here, I am genuinely unsure on my stance and will not be elaborating further in this thread.)
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Aph
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(Original post by CatusStarbright)
This wouldn't affect you unless you happen to be an NI resident?
Why would we want to do that?
I know but I’m opposed to referenda in general.
Because it’s legitimate? This motion asks people what they think o abortion and couples it with the NI problem. Instead we could tackle one or the other.
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Saracen's Fez
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I thought a bill was passed in Westminster to do this already if Stormont isn't restored soon?
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Baron of Sealand
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I think we should never have had the devolved parliament/assemblies at all, but since there's the Good Friday Agreement (which I think has done more good than bad things) and the referendum, we cannot change this.

If this was in Scotland, I would question whether marriage law should be a devolved power, but this is Northern Ireland, so yes, I think unfortunately everything is, in order to avoid violence and unrests.

I would rather there's a reform of the NI political system to avoid the situation all together. I think we can look into Bosnia, Lebanon, Germany, Switzerland and see what we can take from them. I have my thoughts, but I don't know how reception my party or the house is of an executive presidential system.
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LiberOfLondon
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I don't think messing with the GFA is a good idea.
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shadowdweller
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Aye.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Aph)
I know but I’m opposed to referenda in general.
Because it’s legitimate? This motion asks people what they think o abortion and couples it with the NI problem. Instead we could tackle one or the other.
Why are you opposed to *referendums?
It's actually about same-sex marriage.... What do you mean by 'we could tackle one or the other'?
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Rakas21
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Mr Speaker, I will be voting against this motion. While I have no objection to abolishing or overruling the assembly a change in the law should be made through an act of parliament. I will not support another divisive referendum.
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Aph
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(Original post by CatusStarbright)
Why are you opposed to *referendums?
It's actually about same-sex marriage.... What do you mean by 'we could tackle one or the other'?
Mixing representative and direct democracy is hard.
This is a question about same sex marriage as imposed by Westminster on NI. So the question is not just about same-sex marriage but also the right of Westminster to impose it and the issues of sectarian divides.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
I thought a bill was passed in Westminster to do this already if Stormont isn't restored soon?
No, it gives the government the power to impost via secondary legislation, it does not automatically impose.

Regardless, it is a matter for NI and Stormont.
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Saracen's Fez
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
No, it gives the government the power to impost via secondary legislation, it does not automatically impose.

Regardless, it is a matter for NI and Stormont.
Hmm, I was under the impression that it required the government to impose it via secondary legislation if a Stormont administration is not reformed by 21st October.

I would usually agree if we didn't have a situation where we're able to not have an devolved administration in NI.
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SoggyCabbages
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Nay, this is clearly more 4am stuff from the author which shouldn't have been released to the wider house.
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CatusStarbright
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(Original post by Aph)
Mixing representative and direct democracy is hard.
This is a question about same sex marriage as imposed by Westminster on NI. So the question is not just about same-sex marriage but also the right of Westminster to impose it and the issues of sectarian divides.
It's not that difficult.
Yes I know.
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