moneymanJPM
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Yes, i know the target unis make up ~70% of any analyst class. But surely thats just because more people from these unis apply and all wannabe bankers are told to go to these unis.
But i simply dont see where the uni you go to helps you out.
At the first stage- the numericals a target uni gives you no advantage. Ok your unis brand name helps you out on your cv.
But on the video or phone interview your unis name doesnt help you out.
And at your AC or face to face interview your uni doesnt matter, so why is there this constant target uni bias talk.
Do unis filter you out just because you didn't go to a certain uni and where does the target uni give you a signifcant advantage?
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MagnumKoishi
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It's because the cause and effect are the other way round. Your question is proposing "went to certain uni -> is a better candidate", and wondering how university makes them more competitive in certain areas.

It's the other way. "Is a good candidate -> went to a good university". It's just natural that the better people are going to more rigorous, well known universities
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Princepieman
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(Original post by moneymanJPM)
Yes, i know the target unis make up ~70% of any analyst class. But surely thats just because more people from these unis apply and all wannabe bankers are told to go to these unis.
But i simply dont see where the uni you go to helps you out.
At the first stage- the numericals a target uni gives you no advantage. Ok your unis brand name helps you out on your cv.
But on the video or phone interview your unis name doesnt help you out.
And at your AC or face to face interview your uni doesnt matter, so why is there this constant target uni bias talk.
Do unis filter you out just because you didn't go to a certain uni and where does the target uni give you a signifcant advantage?
initial awareness (believe it or not most people aren't TSR/WSO tryhards) from peers and on campus presence of firms

help and tips applying from older students, more robust support networks via well funded finance societies, more alumni to draw on for advice

CVs are reviewed by target university piles at most places so you're only really competing with people at your uni, much more likely to be spaces set aside proportionally for people from target universities

then once you get to the AC it's easier to bond with your interviewer if you went to the same uni and have shared memories from that uni

after the AC, people who went to certain unis in the selection committee might favour candidates from their own uni more when assessing who to pass on to the next round or offer

it's an entire system of bias really from even before any applications are sent, doesn't mean you can't beat it though. and "target uni" will include semi-targets that are also targeted by specific firms.

plus of course there's the overarching idea that students at better universities (target/semi/weak semi etc) are just better anyway.
Last edited by Princepieman; 3 weeks ago
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moneymanJPM
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(Original post by Princepieman)
initial awareness (believe it or not most people aren't TSR/WSO tryhards) from peers and on campus presence of firms

help and tips applying from older students, more robust support networks via well funded finance societies, more alumni to draw on for advice

CVs are reviewed by target university piles at most places so you're only really competing with people at your uni, much more likely to be spaces set aside proportionally for people from target universities

then once you get to the AC it's easier to bond with your interviewer if you went to the same uni and have shared memories from that uni

after the AC, people who went to certain unis in the selection committee might favour candidates from their own uni more when assessing who to pass on to the next round or offer

it's an entire system of bias really from even before any applications are sent, doesn't mean you can't beat it though. and "target uni" will include semi-targets that are also targeted by specific firms.

plus of course there's the overarching idea that students at better universities (target/semi/weak semi etc) are just better anyway.
I hear your points. But still the only really significant one seems to be the CV part. Soft-skills will play a much bigger role than uni in bonding with the interviewer/being a favoured candidates. Most applicants wont draw on alumni for advice or just use WSO/TSR instead. I would agree that students at targets are probably better than non-targets overall. But if you compare the UCL/Warwick types v Bristol/Durham types the intelligence levels are pretty much the same. I reckon its just hard to break in from wherever even at LSE more students go into the big 4 than IB.
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xtrembob
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(Original post by moneymanJPM)
I hear your points. But still the only really significant one seems to be the CV part. Soft-skills will play a much bigger role than uni in bonding with the interviewer/being a favoured candidates. Most applicants wont draw on alumni for advice or just use WSO/TSR instead. I would agree that students at targets are probably better than non-targets overall. But if you compare the UCL/Warwick types v Bristol/Durham types the intelligence levels are pretty much the same. I reckon its just hard to break in from wherever even at LSE more students go into the big 4 than IB.
There were a lot of Durham students at my BB this summer, more than UCL and Oxbridge kids actually.
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moneymanJPM
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(Original post by xtrembob)
There were a lot of Durham students at my BB this summer, more than UCL and Oxbridge kids actually.
Maybe BAML just heavily targets durham students.
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xtrembob
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(Original post by moneymanJPM)
Maybe BAML just heavily targets durham students.
or just that overall banks stopped hiring people from UCL history or Oxbridge PPE/Classics just because of the name. Durham kids very much have the old school banking vibe that UK coverage teams and UK people have in other teams so interviewers/MDs like. LSE kids are usually just a bunch of super nerdy asians that are smart for grades but you can't put them in front of clients - this is usually true across london unis hence why I see banks diversifying away from these schools into schools further that are still full of brits - ie Notts is doing very well for Lazard. The target school/semi target school thingy is becoming blurry if you want my opinion. Interviews for UK people are getting more technical than they were and it weeds out more untraditional candidates. This is surely due to the over supply of very qualified European masters student that have a lot more experience and technical knowledge and pressure banks too hire brits that will be able to hit the ground running faster. This is applicable across banks - be it JPM, BAML, GS or event MS in IB across divisions. Surely due to the uncertainty around brexit as well wereby UK folks may have to be relocated to continental Europe hence they prefer European languages speakers. MS converted 13/50 interns this summer in S&T, none of my 3 brit friends converted so there's that.

I would say that you have a good shot as long as you attend one of the following (see list below) - ie target like chances. Yes maybe one bank wont come to your campus but that's just because HR had to weed campuses out. I go to a non oxbridge school of the list below and when I compare some schools in the list there are schools whereby there is an oversupply of candidates and hence people struggle landing positions (ie LSE). On the other hand, people at Edin will easily get looks because the sheer number of applicants is much lower there as the culture is much less banking focused - they may not get interviews at every banks just like your stellar LSE kid would but they would easily get 2/3 interviews and wouldn't have to compete against 30 of their mates and if you do a bit of networking on the internship your alums will push for you way more than a if you are from say UCL and cannot relate to each other given how big the school is and different experiences are.

Oxbridge
LSE
UCL
ICL
Warwick
Bristol
Notts
Edin
KCL
St Andrews
Durham
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timif1
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(Original post by xtrembob)
or just that overall banks stopped hiring people from UCL history or Oxbridge PPE/Classics just because of the name. Durham kids very much have the old school banking vibe that UK coverage teams and UK people have in other teams so interviewers/MDs like. LSE kids are usually just a bunch of super nerdy asians that are smart for grades but you can't put them in front of clients - this is usually true across london unis hence why I see banks diversifying away from these schools into schools further that are still full of brits - ie Notts is doing very well for Lazard. The target school/semi target school thingy is becoming blurry if you want my opinion. Interviews for UK people are getting more technical than they were and it weeds out more untraditional candidates. This is surely due to the over supply of very qualified European masters student that have a lot more experience and technical knowledge and pressure banks too hire brits that will be able to hit the ground running faster. This is applicable across banks - be it JPM, BAML, GS or event MS in IB across divisions. Surely due to the uncertainty around brexit as well wereby UK folks may have to be relocated to continental Europe hence they prefer European languages speakers. MS converted 13/50 interns this summer in S&T, none of my 3 brit friends converted so there's that.

I would say that you have a good shot as long as you attend one of the following (see list below) - ie target like chances. Yes maybe one bank wont come to your campus but that's just because HR had to weed campuses out. I go to a non oxbridge school of the list below and when I compare some schools in the list there are schools whereby there is an oversupply of candidates and hence people struggle landing positions (ie LSE). On the other hand, people at Edin will easily get looks because the sheer number of applicants is much lower there as the culture is much less banking focused - they may not get interviews at every banks just like your stellar LSE kid would but they would easily get 2/3 interviews and wouldn't have to compete against 30 of their mates and if you do a bit of networking on the internship your alums will push for you way more than a if you are from say UCL and cannot relate to each other given how big the school is and different experiences are.

Oxbridge
LSE
UCL
ICL
Warwick
Bristol
Notts
Edin
KCL
St Andrews
Durham
Manchester? Bath ?
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moneymanJPM
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#9
(Original post by xtrembob)
or just that overall banks stopped hiring people from UCL history or Oxbridge PPE/Classics just because of the name. Durham kids very much have the old school banking vibe that UK coverage teams and UK people have in other teams so interviewers/MDs like. LSE kids are usually just a bunch of super nerdy asians that are smart for grades but you can't put them in front of clients - this is usually true across london unis hence why I see banks diversifying away from these schools into schools further that are still full of brits - ie Notts is doing very well for Lazard. The target school/semi target school thingy is becoming blurry if you want my opinion. Interviews for UK people are getting more technical than they were and it weeds out more untraditional candidates. This is surely due to the over supply of very qualified European masters student that have a lot more experience and technical knowledge and pressure banks too hire brits that will be able to hit the ground running faster. This is applicable across banks - be it JPM, BAML, GS or event MS in IB across divisions. Surely due to the uncertainty around brexit as well wereby UK folks may have to be relocated to continental Europe hence they prefer European languages speakers. MS converted 13/50 interns this summer in S&T, none of my 3 brit friends converted so there's that.

I would say that you have a good shot as long as you attend one of the following (see list below) - ie target like chances. Yes maybe one bank wont come to your campus but that's just because HR had to weed campuses out. I go to a non oxbridge school of the list below and when I compare some schools in the list there are schools whereby there is an oversupply of candidates and hence people struggle landing positions (ie LSE). On the other hand, people at Edin will easily get looks because the sheer number of applicants is much lower there as the culture is much less banking focused - they may not get interviews at every banks just like your stellar LSE kid would but they would easily get 2/3 interviews and wouldn't have to compete against 30 of their mates and if you do a bit of networking on the internship your alums will push for you way more than a if you are from say UCL and cannot relate to each other given how big the school is and different experiences are.

Oxbridge
LSE
UCL
ICL
Warwick
Bristol
Notts
Edin
KCL
St Andrews
Durham
That seems fair when you compare semi target econ requirements v weak subjects requirements at target uni I.e. A*AA in hard subjects v ABB in soft subjects.
26% conversion rate? Damn, thats rough. How were IBD conversion rates this summer?
So your suggesting that firms have set quotas for each university or just dont like too many similar candidates, so students at prestigious unis such as LSE, where ~75% of students are applying for internships are missing out and that top semi targets( I.e Bristol/Notts), where the banking culture isn't as strong may stand out? Because theres still a strong IB culture at unis like notts - at the NEEFS freshers fair people were allegedlly
sitting on the floor:Name:  IMG_0118.jpg
Views: 14
Size:  243.9 KB
BTW whats the relationship between notts and Nomura?
LSE/UCL V Bristol/Notts is a decision i will have to make later this year and what you have said above, combined with the dire london student nightlife, im leaning towards the latter option.
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RioIBD
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#10
(Original post by moneymanJPM)
That seems fair when you compare semi target econ requirements v weak subjects requirements at target uni I.e. A*AA in hard subjects v ABB in soft subjects.
26% conversion rate? Damn, thats rough. How were IBD conversion rates this summer?
So your suggesting that firms have set quotas for each university or just dont like too many similar candidates, so students at prestigious unis such as LSE, where ~75% of students are applying for internships are missing out and that top semi targets( I.e Bristol/Notts), where the banking culture isn't as strong may stand out? Because theres still a strong IB culture at unis like notts - at the NEEFS freshers fair people were allegedlly
sitting on the floor:Name:  IMG_0118.jpg
Views: 14
Size:  243.9 KB
BTW whats the relationship between notts and Nomura?
LSE/UCL V Bristol/Notts is a decision i will have to make later this year and what you have said above, combined with the dire london student nightlife, im leaning towards the latter option.
Heard of a 10% conversion rate at a certain BB for ibd.
Unis dont have set quotas. Im not sure what that Xtremebob don is smoking. Targets make it easier to get there, you obvviously have to have good people skills to get the job every1 knows that, thats why IBD isnt just full of asian neeks with 4A*S and oxbvridge/imperial maths degrees.
Choose LSE or risk a life of mediocre money and sexual partners in the big 4.
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Princepieman
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(Original post by xtrembob)
or just that overall banks stopped hiring people from UCL history or Oxbridge PPE/Classics just because of the name. Durham kids very much have the old school banking vibe that UK coverage teams and UK people have in other teams so interviewers/MDs like. LSE kids are usually just a bunch of super nerdy asians that are smart for grades but you can't put them in front of clients - this is usually true across london unis hence why I see banks diversifying away from these schools into schools further that are still full of brits - ie Notts is doing very well for Lazard. The target school/semi target school thingy is becoming blurry if you want my opinion. Interviews for UK people are getting more technical than they were and it weeds out more untraditional candidates. This is surely due to the over supply of very qualified European masters student that have a lot more experience and technical knowledge and pressure banks too hire brits that will be able to hit the ground running faster. This is applicable across banks - be it JPM, BAML, GS or event MS in IB across divisions. Surely due to the uncertainty around brexit as well wereby UK folks may have to be relocated to continental Europe hence they prefer European languages speakers. MS converted 13/50 interns this summer in S&T, none of my 3 brit friends converted so there's that.

I would say that you have a good shot as long as you attend one of the following (see list below) - ie target like chances. Yes maybe one bank wont come to your campus but that's just because HR had to weed campuses out. I go to a non oxbridge school of the list below and when I compare some schools in the list there are schools whereby there is an oversupply of candidates and hence people struggle landing positions (ie LSE). On the other hand, people at Edin will easily get looks because the sheer number of applicants is much lower there as the culture is much less banking focused - they may not get interviews at every banks just like your stellar LSE kid would but they would easily get 2/3 interviews and wouldn't have to compete against 30 of their mates and if you do a bit of networking on the internship your alums will push for you way more than a if you are from say UCL and cannot relate to each other given how big the school is and different experiences are.

Oxbridge
LSE
UCL
ICL
Warwick
Bristol
Notts
Edin
KCL
St Andrews
Durham
you're forgetting exeter and cass.. exeter is pretty much the same stereotypically as a durham or edin or st as. lots of kids smashing the scene here in general (obviously most of them are pretty privileged but that's expected given the demo), lots of love from a range of banks including rbc, baml, citi, jpm, db, laz, ms, barclays, roths and a few others. i sort of split it into golden triangle (oxbridge plus lse/imperial) + warwick, then "posh unis/oxbridge reject unis" + cass.

also target/semi-target isn't "becoming blurry", a semi-target by definition is a target but for fewer banks so obviously there will be some strong relationships/pulls to certain banks. still will produce way less overall volume to the city than the full targets.
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