Labour Party delegates vote against adopting remain position in 2nd referendum. Watch

Andrew97
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49789938

Well for now it seems.

It beggars belief that you could even consider negotiating a new deal and then voting against it.
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Neilos
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(Original post by Andrew97)
It beggars belief that you could even consider negotiating a new deal and then voting against it.
Can't be any worse than their current public position, which is going to an organisation that would rather Brexit just went away, telling them 'we'll have a referendum on your deal vs remain', and expecting* to be offered anything other than the worst possible deal.

* - obviously they know they'll be offered the worst possible deal, but publicly they can't say that.
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DSilva
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(Original post by Andrew97)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49789938

Well for now it seems.

It beggars belief that you could even consider negotiating a new deal and then voting against it.
How?

It's perfectly logical to say 'we'll see what the best deal we can get from the EU is and then decide if that deal is better than staying in. In the same way that people see what the best deal they can get on a house is, and then decide whether or not to go through with it.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by DSilva)
How?

It's perfectly logical to say 'we'll see what the best deal we can get from the EU is and then decide if that deal is better than staying in. In the same way that people see what the best deal they can get on a house is, and then decide whether or not to go through with it.
theres a problem with your analogy..

When your buying a house, usually your negotiating with a seller who wants to sell it. They want the deal to happen, its the best outcome for them, they just want to make sure its in their favour as much as possible. In that case, yes negotiate first, and make your decision later is a very very good stratagy, because firstly its sensible, and secondly the fact that you haven't made your mind up motivates the seller to give you a reasonable deal because they don't want you to back out.. they want to sell the house.

The problem with your analogy in the EU case, is that they don't want to sell the house. They never wanted to sell the house in the first place, and the best option for them is to not sell the house. If you gave the EU a choice right now, and said 'you decide, should we cancel brexit, proceed with Mays deal, or have a no deal.. its up to you'. What do you think the EU would do? I think its pretty clear, based on their current opinion, and based on past nations referendums to leave the EU.. they would vastly prefer we remained in, and vote for us to do so.

So in your analogy, what would the seller of the house do? They don't actually want you to buy the house.. and you say 'ok, were going to negotiate, and then make our minds up after'... so you as the seller say 'sure, 10 billion pounds or nothing', knowing that they will never say yes when making their decision and you get to keep your house.

The EU, wanting us to remain... will know that if Labour is in power, they can offer them the worst deal possible, or likely just keep insisting on May's deal.. and that eventually labour will hold a referendum on a bad deal or Mays deal, where a majority of Labour MPs will campaign against the deal the EU offers and for remain.

Remain supporting MPs will then say "Well, the deal the leavers wanted to get was never possible... so lets back remain" - ignoring that their negotiating possition was set up in such a way that a deal was never possible anyway.

And Labour knows this 100%. Corbyn isn't stupid. He knows that this policy is remain, in every way but name. Hes doing this in the hope that he can hold on to the middle ground and still attract both remain and leave voters. His working class leave voters still get a party that technically supports leaving.. and his remain voters get a second referendum. Personally for me though its a huge mistake.. his leave voters will head off to the boris, or farage as they will see the nonsense of this aproach (look at how it went down in the recent question times) and his remain voters will go for a party that actually just wants to remain like the lib dems or the greens. He will be left just with hardcore labour voters, but that's not enough.

If his approach doesn't change, look forward to a hard-brexit lead by the tories+farage after the next election.
Last edited by fallen_acorns; 4 weeks ago
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Dez
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(Original post by Neilos)
Can't be any worse than their current public position, which is going to an organisation that would rather Brexit just went away, telling them 'we'll have a referendum on your deal vs remain', and expecting* to be offered anything other than the worst possible deal.

* - obviously they know they'll be offered the worst possible deal, but publicly they can't say that.
The withdrawal agreement has already been decided, and it's unlikely to substantially change now no matter what. It doesn't make a jot of difference what the UK government does at this point, the outcome on the EU side will basically be the same. And if we ever do get to the point of actually starting to negotiate a trade deal, the UK will get treated like any other country does - agonisingly slowly. Don't expect any agreement for the first decade at least.
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