econhelp525
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Hello all,

Our school is quite strict with predictions, and there is very little to no room for flexibility in terms of predictions, as they're derived from our end of year exams only. I'm slightly disappointed, but I guess they're still pretty good predictions.

I was wondering which universities would be the best to apply to for BSc Economics. I want to ideally go to a Russell Group or Russell Group equivalent.

My predictions are A* in History, A in Economics and B in Mathematics.
I've put in an appeal and I think that I can get my predictions up to A*A*B,- but mathematics cannot be changed due to the department being incredibly strict. The school uses internal grade boundaries which is a bit annoying, especially considering that the grade boundaries are skewed towards the higher end as we're grammar school students, so of course the bell curve will be skewed.

The university I really want to apply to is Bath, which is A*AA, but I'm unsure if it's worth it as I fall short of their requirements, so I don't know if I'll get an offer.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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swanseajack1
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The difficulty is that most leading universities require grade A Maths and this is the case with Bath. It might be worth trying there even though you might be rejected as long as you have other good options. Exeter requires grade B Maths and even though they ask for A*AA might well make you an offer. Lancaster doesnt require A level Maths and wants AAB so that appears a good choice. Cardiff again might be another worth thinking about. Other options for you to consider are East Anglia, Reading, Sussex and Swansea. I havent checked them but Liverpool and Newcastle might be others you can consider.
The ucas offer calculator suggests you have a 71% chance of an offer from Bath and a 90% chance of an offer off Exeter with your subjects and grades
https://www.ucas.com/advisers/offer-rate-calculator
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econhelp525
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bump??
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by econhelp525)
bump??
I dont know why you have bumped this. The reality is that most Russell Group universities want a grade A in A level Maths and without it wont accept you. I have given you the best options available without it. You cannot expect people to make things up. Unless you can somehow get your school to up your Maths grade your options will be limited. Even if they were to make you an offer if you dont get grade A in Maths you will get turned down next year on results day. Your other option is to look at a less mathematical course like Politics or Business instead of Economics
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econhelp525
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
I dont know why you have bumped this. The reality is that most Russell Group universities want a grade A in A level Maths and without it wont accept you. I have given you the best options available without it. You cannot expect people to make things up. Unless you can somehow get your school to up your Maths grade your options will be limited. Even if they were to make you an offer if you dont get grade A in Maths you will get turned down next year on results day. Your other option is to look at a less mathematical course like Politics or Business instead of Economics
Okay, I just wanted to see if there were some other opinions and advice, there really wasn't a need to be that rude. I wasn't asking any one to make anything up.

Also, I contacted Bath directly, and they said that they have in the past few cycles made offers to strong candidates predicted A*AB, to A*A*B prior, so really, I don't know where you go the idea that universities simply "don't take you" if you fall a bit short of their requirements. Most make offers to most applicants that apply.
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ajj2000
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(Original post by econhelp525)
Also, I contacted Bath directly, and they said that they have in the past few cycles made offers to strong candidates predicted A*AB, to A*A*B prior, so really, I don't know where you go the idea that universities simply "don't take you" if you fall a bit short of their requirements. Most make offers to most applicants that apply.
Hey, well done on contacting Bath directly. Did they indicate whether they would be likely to accept a B grade in maths on results day? That may be the big issue you face, rather than an issue with getting an offer.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by ajj2000)
Hey, well done on contacting Bath directly. Did they indicate whether they would be likely to accept a B grade in maths on results day? That may be the big issue you face, rather than an issue with getting an offer.
Have to agree with this that the biggest problem people normally face is not getting the offers but rather with hitting higher grades than their school have predicted.

econhelp525 there is nothing wrong with you applying to Bath and even Firming it if you feel that you can achieve the grades but make sure you also have a decent insurance choice that is more in line with what the school have predicted you. Swansea Jack has suggested some good options like Exeter, Lancaster and Cardiff.
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by econhelp525)
Okay, I just wanted to see if there were some other opinions and advice, there really wasn't a need to be that rude. I wasn't asking any one to make anything up.

Also, I contacted Bath directly, and they said that they have in the past few cycles made offers to strong candidates predicted A*AB, to A*A*B prior, so really, I don't know where you go the idea that universities simply "don't take you" if you fall a bit short of their requirements. Most make offers to most applicants that apply.
Universities often accept dropped grades. What they dont accept is dropped grades in a required subject eg Maths grade A at A level. There a whole list of RG universities that wont accept you without it. You were given an answer and the universities that WILL accept you without a grade A at A level Maths. Unfortunately you didnt want to accept the facts and decided to bump it in the hope that somebody will give you another answer ie a made up answer that suited what you wanted to hear.

The basic problem is that you are trying to enter a very Mathematical course without an excellent Maths A level. I even suggested alternative courses you could get into to overcome this problem.

This is what Durham say For all Single and Joint Honours degrees involving Economics, including Philosophy, Politics and Economics, we require you to obtain a Grade A at A level Mathematics or its equivalent.

The universities I suggested to you are your best options. Exeter for example want A*AA with at least grade B in A level Maths. They are likely to accept lower but they will not accept lower than grade B in Maths. Lancaster is a top university who do not require A level Maths. As I already stated Bath could be your aspirational offer but they will turn you down without an A in A level Maths. They might make you an offer but you WILL be required to get the Maths grade. If you want to go to places like Durham, Bristol or Manchester with a grade B in A level Maths then you need to take a different subject such as Politics which doesnt have the same Mathematical condition attached to it as Economics.

Every year we get students come on here who havent taken A level Maths and wanting to get into universities to study Economics. There are a group of very good universities who will accept students with grade B GCSE Maths and it is the best of those that make up the suggestions I have given to you to try and help you. Bumping what was a very serious effort to try and get a different answer because you dont like the answer provided wont change anything. You have the option of checking all the universities yourself if you believe otherwise.
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econhelp525
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
Universities often accept dropped grades. What they dont accept is dropped grades in a required subject eg Maths grade A at A level. There a whole list of RG universities that wont accept you without it. You were given an answer and the universities that WILL accept you without a grade A at A level Maths. Unfortunately you didnt want to accept the facts and decided to bump it in the hope that somebody will give you another answer ie a made up answer that suited what you wanted to hear.

The basic problem is that you are trying to enter a very Mathematical course without an excellent Maths A level. I even suggested alternative courses you could get into to overcome this problem.

This is what Durham say For all Single and Joint Honours degrees involving Economics, including Philosophy, Politics and Economics, we require you to obtain a Grade A at A level Mathematics or its equivalent.

The universities I suggested to you are your best options. Exeter for example want A*AA with at least grade B in A level Maths. They are likely to accept lower but they will not accept lower than grade B in Maths. Lancaster is a top university who do not require A level Maths. As I already stated Bath could be your aspirational offer but they will turn you down without an A in A level Maths. They might make you an offer but you WILL be required to get the Maths grade. If you want to go to places like Durham, Bristol or Manchester with a grade B in A level Maths then you need to take a different subject such as Politics which doesnt have the same Mathematical condition attached to it as Economics.

Every year we get students come on here who havent taken A level Maths and wanting to get into universities to study Economics. There are a group of very good universities who will accept students with grade B GCSE Maths and it is the best of those that make up the suggestions I have given to you to try and help you. Bumping what was a very serious effort to try and get a different answer because you dont like the answer provided wont change anything. You have the option of checking all the universities yourself if you believe otherwise.
My post was about whether or not I was able to get an offer. I was under no point under the illusion that I would be admitted with lower entry requirements, that is something you have interpreted. I wouldnt be applying to A*AA universities if I wasnt confident on getting an A, and I did mention the schools prediction policy. I mean an 80% average throughout the year is unreasonable for a B, dont you think?

Thank you for your advice on offers, that is what I was enquiring about, and I appreciate your further intervention on lower entry requirements universities, but I don't believe, nor do my tutor or teachers believe that I will score below an A to miss the entry requirements.
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econhelp525
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Have to agree with this that the biggest problem people normally face is not getting the offers but rather with hitting higher grades than their school have predicted.

econhelp525 there is nothing wrong with you applying to Bath and even Firming it if you feel that you can achieve the grades but make sure you also have a decent insurance choice that is more in line with what the school have predicted you. Swansea Jack has suggested some good options like Exeter, Lancaster and Cardiff.
Thanks for your reply, I would definitely be looking at universities such as York or Exeter as insurance options.
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econhelp525
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(Original post by ajj2000)
Hey, well done on contacting Bath directly. Did they indicate whether they would be likely to accept a B grade in maths on results day? That may be the big issue you face, rather than an issue with getting an offer.
Bath said that they usually want their candidates to achieve no less than an A on results day, which is something I am not worried about at this stage.
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ajj2000
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(Original post by econhelp525)
Bath said that they usually want their candidates to achieve no less than an A on results day, which is something I am not worried about at this stage.
Cool. You are properly informed to make decisions. Are you able to apply as a two year process so if anything goes wrong in your a level or with getting the offers you want you can apply again the next year?
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by econhelp525)
My post was about whether or not I was able to get an offer. I was under no point under the illusion that I would be admitted with lower entry requirements, that is something you have interpreted. I wouldnt be applying to A*AA universities if I wasnt confident on getting an A, and I did mention the schools prediction policy. I mean an 80% average throughout the year is unreasonable for a B, dont you think?

Thank you for your advice on offers, that is what I was enquiring about, and I appreciate your further intervention on lower entry requirements universities, but I don't believe, nor do my tutor or teachers believe that I will score below an A to miss the entry requirements.
In answer to your last paragraph your Maths teacher is predicting that you will get a B. That is what they believe you will get whatever you think. As far as thr 80% it is borderline and clearly your school dont support your belief. Whether Russell Group universities will make you offers only then can say but as I have said previously even if you get offers if when you get your results next year you have a B in Maths they will reject you. Many leading universities will have plenty of candidates who are predicted grade A at A level Maths and if you dont have that you will be at a disadvantage and face rejections. As Harrysbar has said the evidence shows that something like 60% get less than their predicted grades. Apply to one or 2 subjects you dont meet the entry requirements for eg Bath and Exeter but ensure the others you can meet the requirements otherwise you are likely to be facing rejections next year.
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econhelp525
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
In answer to your last paragraph your Maths teacher is predicting that you will get a B. That is what they believe you will get whatever you think. As far as thr 80% it is borderline and clearly your school dont support your belief. Whether Russell Group universities will make you offers only then can say but as I have said previously even if you get offers if when you get your results next year you have a B in Maths they will reject you. Many leading universities will have plenty of candidates who are predicted grade A at A level Maths and if you dont have that you will be at a disadvantage and face rejections. As Harrysbar has said the evidence shows that something like 60% get less than their predicted grades. Apply to one or 2 subjects you dont meet the entry requirements for eg Bath and Exeter but ensure the others you can meet the requirements otherwise you are likely to be facing rejections next year.
As I've repeatedly said, I was only asking about whether or not I would be able to get offers. No, my teachers don't believe I will get a B, it is the Head of Maths who sets the predicted grades based solely on raw data, skewed disproportionately. I'm aware that universities have strict rules regarding actual intake, I never questioned that, but I won't apply to a string of AAB-ABB universities when my teachers believe that is unrealistic I would perform that lowly in my final exam.
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by econhelp525)
As I've repeatedly said, I was only asking about whether or not I would be able to get offers. No, my teachers don't believe I will get a B, it is the Head of Maths who sets the predicted grades based solely on raw data, skewed disproportionately. I'm aware that universities have strict rules regarding actual intake, I never questioned that, but I won't apply to a string of AAB-ABB universities when my teachers believe that is unrealistic I would perform that lowly in my final exam.
It is in schools interests that they get as many students as possible into the better universities as it reflects well on the school. For that reason they dont under predict and the Head of Maths is fully aware of that. He/she is also aware of your performance and having studied the facts isnt prepared to back you to achieve an A. He is probably an experienced teacher who is able to draw on that experience to make accurate predictions. Whilst you clearly believe you know better than him and you are going to achieve an A he is in a far better position than you to make judgement. This is why 60% of predicted grades are underachieved and only 7% over achieve.

Been as you attitude clearly is that you know better than others perhaps it be best you ignore advice and go ahead and act as you see fit. If it all goes wrong and you end up with rejections then you only have yourself to blame.
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econhelp525
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(Original post by swanseajack1)
It is in schools interests that they get as many students as possible into the better universities as it reflects well on the school. For that reason they dont under predict and the Head of Maths is fully aware of that. He/she is also aware of your performance and having studied the facts isnt prepared to back you to achieve an A. He is probably an experienced teacher who is able to draw on that experience to make accurate predictions. Whilst you clearly believe you know better than him and you are going to achieve an A he is in a far better position than you to make judgement. This is why 60% of predicted grades are underachieved and only 7% over achieve.

Been as you attitude clearly is that you know better than others perhaps it be best you ignore advice and go ahead and act as you see fit. If it all goes wrong and you end up with rejections then you only have yourself to blame.
You don't know my school, you don't know our Head of Maths (woman, by the way), and you don't know me. Your tone has frankly been rude and disrespectful, suggesting that I'm somehow going to not do well in maths, when you know nothing about my mathematical ability. Our school's policy is to give a prediction based on whatever you score in the end of year exam. That's it. It's not a holistic approach. And as stated, grade boundaries are skewed due to the grammar school environment. I won't have you tell me that 80% is realistically a B any day of the week, and I most certainly won't have you tell me that I'll end up with a slew of rejections on results day.
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mnot
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(Original post by econhelp525)
Hello all,

Our school is quite strict with predictions, and there is very little to no room for flexibility in terms of predictions, as they're derived from our end of year exams only. I'm slightly disappointed, but I guess they're still pretty good predictions.

I was wondering which universities would be the best to apply to for BSc Economics. I want to ideally go to a Russell Group or Russell Group equivalent.

My predictions are A* in History, A in Economics and B in Mathematics.
I've put in an appeal and I think that I can get my predictions up to A*A*B,- but mathematics cannot be changed due to the department being incredibly strict. The school uses internal grade boundaries which is a bit annoying, especially considering that the grade boundaries are skewed towards the higher end as we're grammar school students, so of course the bell curve will be skewed.

The university I really want to apply to is Bath, which is A*AA, but I'm unsure if it's worth it as I fall short of their requirements, so I don't know if I'll get an offer.

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
So your grades are good enough to apply to anywhere, they are not so good as to say pile straight into 4 A*AA+ unis.

I would say 2 'elite tier', 2 competitive Unis (ie top-ish RG but be reasonable, based on subject requirements), 1 safety probably ABB-BBB ish (have a look on whichuni, Unistats to verify Unis grade requirements match up to what they will take)
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swanseajack1
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(Original post by econhelp525)
You don't know my school, you don't know our Head of Maths (woman, by the way), and you don't know me. Your tone has frankly been rude and disrespectful, suggesting that I'm somehow going to not do well in maths, when you know nothing about my mathematical ability. Our school's policy is to give a prediction based on whatever you score in the end of year exam. That's it. It's not a holistic approach. And as stated, grade boundaries are skewed due to the grammar school environment. I won't have you tell me that 80% is realistically a B any day of the week, and I most certainly won't have you tell me that I'll end up with a slew of rejections on results day.
As far as I am concerned I do not intend trying to help a person who thinks they know better than their head of Maths and thinks they are above AAB universities. A person who admits not getting an A prediction because of the result in an end of year exam. Just think your Maths grade will be based on an exam next year and if it is an English school it will be based over 2 years. Apply to where you think will give you offers and see what happens. It is clear you are beyond advice.
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