Let's give a big thank you to Gina Miller Watch

DSilva
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Time will tell, you may be correct but I dont think so.

See how things plan out mate, see you around
I really urge you to read the judgement - https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/do...2-judgment.pdf

It's only 25 pages and clear. It deals with the points you raise comprehensively.

I know it's easy to get tribal with the current political climate but it's incredibly dangerous for all of us when people start attacking the our judiciary just because they don't like the judgement. We even have tory party MPs talking about electing judges, which is utterly ridiculous.
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Burton Bridge
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#42
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(Original post by DSilva)
I really urge you to read the judgement - https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/do...2-judgment.pdf

It's only 25 pages and clear. It deals with the points you raise comprehensively.

I know it's easy to get tribal with the current political climate but it's incredibly dangerous for all of us when people start attacking the our judiciary just because they don't like the judgement. We even have tory party MPs talking about electing judges, which is utterly ridiculous.
I have skim read it, not fully read it.

I'm honestly not getting tribal, I couldn't care less what happens to Birris Johnson and his tax break for the wealthy party. I'm just scared of the implications as I said, I'll read it properly tomorrow. Got a slacker day tomorrow.
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Dez
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Oh dear you just dont get it do you, I'm sick of dealing with people who can't debate without namecall.
I'm guessing it happens to you a lot, given how weak you are at debating anything.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Of course people voted for remain, I dont know how to simplify my words further so you understand so I'm out.
Have fun back on Breitbart.
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Burton Bridge
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Dez)
I'm guessing it happens to you a lot, given how weak you are at debating anything.



Have fun back on Breitbart.
Ok ...
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Fullofsurprises
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
So what's my true colours then and how am I showing them?
It wasn't a comment aimed at you, I don't think of you as someone who says things that haven't been thought out.
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Fullofsurprises
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#46
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#46
(Original post by DSilva)
I know it's easy to get tribal with the current political climate but it's incredibly dangerous for all of us when people start attacking the our judiciary just because they don't like the judgement. We even have tory party MPs talking about electing judges, which is utterly ridiculous.
Although it's all of a piece with Boris's apparent belief that he is Life President of this country and not a Parliamentary Prime Minister. Even the US Right might blanch at the idea of Trump being there for ever and having no Congress sitting, even if they do elect their judges.
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Burton Bridge
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#47
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It wasn't a comment aimed at you, I don't think of you as someone who says things that haven't been thought out.
I actually know you wasn't, I was highlighting how you're words could be devisive. I don't want to see a political court, and this is the first step.

I'm appalled to hear of how parliament are acting and treating each other, using Jo Cox to score points is awful including Johnson last night. I watched parliament for 2 hours this morning, all they concentrating on is securing the extension - frustration of Brexit and cause more uncertainty and business closures.

I'm starting to think a binding second referendum desolving the parliamentary democracy that is failing, I agree with the attorney general yesterday. He said 'This is a dead parliament and it's got no moral right to sit on those green benches.'

I'd be happy for a binding ref revoke vs leave deal or no deal within a year and immediately followed by a general election so I can vote those useless parliamentarians out.
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prenticebaines
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#48
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
For reminding us about our own Parliamentary democracy and the values we supposedly live by.

One heck of a British woman and Guyanan black lady.

A big thank you to Gina Miller, who has persisted against repeated threats of violence, slurs and abuse from the right wing media, lies and slander and against all odds, has twice won significant victories in law against a corrupt and devious fanatic Brexit machine that would prefer to have no scrutiny and no Parliament.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-and-won-twice

:clap2: :woo: :cheers::party2:

One brave woman who knows how to win and shows us how to stand up to power.
What about Joanne Cherry who first brought the case to the Scottish courts???
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Fullofsurprises
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I actually know you wasn't, I was highlighting how you're words could be devisive. I don't want to see a political court, and this is the first step.

I'm appalled to hear of how parliament are acting and treating each other, using Jo Cox to score points is awful including Johnson last night. I watched parliament for 2 hours this morning, all they concentrating on is securing the extension - frustration of Brexit and cause more uncertainty and business closures.

I'm starting to think a binding second referendum desolving the parliamentary democracy that is failing, I agree with the attorney general yesterday. He said 'This is a dead parliament and it's got no moral right to sit on those green benches.'

I'd be happy for a binding ref revoke vs leave deal or no deal within a year and immediately followed by a general election so I can vote those useless parliamentarians out.
I think it's overwhelmingly clear that we need another referendum, which would be on a deal - vs - remain - the only problem is which deal? Boris is just going through the motions of pretending to get a deal and therein lies the problem. Yes, the current Parliament is a lame duck, but unless we are to become a fascist state in the next few weeks, it's all we've got.
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prenticebaines
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#50
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#50
Scots forgotten about again...
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Fullofsurprises
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#51
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#51
(Original post by prenticebaines)
Scots forgotten about again...
I hate to say it, because personally I love Scotland and am happy for the Scots to have as much freedom as possible, but right now they voted to be in the UK and they make up just 8% of the population of the UK, so the extent to which everything that happens should be directed by Scotland is quite properly limited. Really, the Scots who voted Remain and support Remain are just a part of the overall Remain-supporting community, which is what matters.
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Burton Bridge
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#52
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I think it's overwhelmingly clear that we need another referendum, which would be on a deal - vs - remain - the only problem is which deal? Boris is just going through the motions of pretending to get a deal and therein lies the problem. Yes, the current Parliament is a lame duck, but unless we are to become a fascist state in the next few weeks, it's all we've got.
I disagree and agree at the same time.

Second ref 2 cannot be deal or remain. Its got to be an honest and fair referendum and that's not fair or truthful. I'll explain why:

1) Remain under Camerons renegotiated deal is not an option. To pretend the last 3-years can just be swept under the carpet and Disappeared in a magic puff of smoke is a fallacy and not one that should be being spoke about as a realistic way forward.

2) without no deal on the table a deal is impossible

3) a deal is too vague as you point out, what deal? You cannot put deals in the referendum because it breaks referendums act and gives our hand away.

4) people have voted for no deal just as people have voted for Camerons renegotiated deal.

5) the reality of a leave vote is the possibility of no deal and that needs to be clear as clear as the costs of revoke likelihood of loosing rebate etc.

This has to be an open and honest, so the people can desides because Parliament cannot.

Regards borris I believe he'd of got a deal, I believe parliament know this that's the reason for the Benn act. That scuppers the chance a passable deal, parliment are against Brexit, no deal is just the code for that.


The question be be simple

Revoke vs leave under the proviso it's deal or no deal within a time frame. Legally binding which cannot be overridden by Parliament.
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DSilva
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#53
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I disagree and agree at the same time.

Second ref 2 cannot be deal or remain. Its got to be an honest and fair referendum and that's not fair or truthful. I'll explain why:

1) Remain under Camerons renegotiated deal is not an option. To pretend the last 3-years can just be swept under the carpet and Disappeared in a magic puff of smoke is a fallacy and not one that should be being spoke about as a realistic way forward.

2) without no deal on the table a deal is impossible

3) a deal is too vague as you point out, what deal? You cannot put deals in the referendum because it breaks referendums act and gives our hand away.

4) people have voted for no deal just as people have voted for Camerons renegotiated deal.

5) the reality of a leave vote is the possibility of no deal and that needs to be clear as clear as the costs of revoke likelihood of loosing rebate etc.

This has to be an open and honest, so the people can desides because Parliament cannot.

Regards borris I believe he'd of got a deal, I believe parliament know this that's the reason for the Benn act. That scuppers the chance a passable deal, parliment are against Brexit, no deal is just the code for that.
MPs have received threats. In light of the Jo Cox murder they should be taken extremely seriously and not passed off as humbug.
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Burton Bridge
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#54
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#54
(Original post by DSilva)
MPs have received threats. In light of the Jo Cox murder they should be taken extremely seriously and not passed off as humbug.

Do you really trust Boris?
I agree I thought I'd said that? Likewise we should not bring Jo into politics to make a political point, borris was wrong yesterday he should not of used to words he did.

And

No not really but I trust him to deliver Brexit more than anyone else.
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Kitten in boots
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#55
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
No not really but I trust him to deliver Brexit more than anyone else.
We’ve seen Johnson lurch from one self-inflicted crisis to another during his short Premiership.

Still having trust in a man of such limited competence is an indication of how desperate Brexiters have become.
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Burton Bridge
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#56
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I

(Original post by Kitten in boots)
We’ve seen Johnson lurch from one self-inflicted crisis to another during his short Premiership.

Still having trust in a man of such limited competence is an indication of how desperate Brexiters have become.
I don't think he's had a fair trial so far Parliament as been against him to the ridiculous. His own party would not back him, but despite this the EU has significantly moved its red lines in 9nly a few weeks thanks to his hardline stance and no deal preparations. So much so has been sabotaged by Parliament whom knew a deal was coming and simply did not want one, they want to frustrate Brexit and use it against johnson .

Did you notice Corbyn's face last night when johnson asked him if he would ask for an extension? That's the last thing Corbyn wants, it's all about of a game they are playing with our lives and welfare.
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QE2
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Absolutely unbelievable, are you actually happy with Americanisation of our political system without the political constitutions in place to regulate the courts.

The legal profession has been trying to get their teeth into poltics for a while. Gina Miller may of made it easier but thanking her really?

You just wait till brexit is over, and the can of worms spread out, we will see how happy you are with Gina miller then
Again, what are you on about? The judiciary have always been a check and balance on the executive. Please try and understand the basics of our political system if you want to be taken seriously (although I think that applecart has long since left the station).
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QE2
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
He's done nothing that's not been done in the past. Should other prorogations of undergone this type of scrutiny then many historic prorogations would have been overturned.
In which case, you will be able to cite all those instances where a PM has prorogued parliament for an inordinately long period during a time of political turmoil, against the wishes of parliament, in order to sneak through legislation that would otherwise be blocked.
(TBH, I'm not holding my breath)

Dont kid yourself this is standard and without future implications.
Of course it's not "standard". It is unheard of for a PM to unlawfully suspend parliament in order to force through unpopular legislation. That is why the courts got involved - as is their right, duty and purpose.
The future implication is that PMs might think twice about employing such underhand and unlawful tactics.

At least in America they have written constitutions to regulate the courts, we dont because upto Miller in 2017 there has been no need.
Again, WTF are you on about? The courts are designed to be independent of the government. That is the whole point! Otherwise, how could they be a check and balance on the government?
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Sam1999__
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We voted to leave in a democratic vote and you are praising a woman who has been pulling out all the stops to prevent the result of that vote being delivered. The EU is a completely unpatriotic organisation and young people don't seem to understand this. Forget the economics and everything else for a minute and just remember one thing, above all else, we are a nation. If you are a member of the European Union, you surrender many of the faculties that constitute being a nation and that's what we voted to take back. Trade deals are 100% the way to go but the EU has unfortunately gone beyond that in attempting to create a political union, something the British people never asked for. We can be friends and trading partners with European countries but we will do this as a nation, not a satellite of this mutated and failed political project.
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QE2
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#60
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Yes and you are talking like parliaments prorogation was until November the first, it wasn't and parliamentarians still had their voice.
It's a shame that you weren't able to get yourself down to the Supreme Court and correct the faulty legal advice provided to and by the 11 judges.

Hell they have just outlawed no deal something that people have voted for FFS!
No one voted for No Deal because No Deal was specifically ruled out by Leave campaigners. Current polls show around 70% of people are against No Deal. You are talking out of your arse. Again.
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