Democratic Party begin impeachment inquiry against Trump Watch

Ascend
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#21
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#21
(Original post by z-hog)
Asking for 'dirt' in public, with a lot of people listening in. I think he would have asked for it in a more covert way
Except he didn't. He clearly asked for a political favour from a foreign state "with a lot of people listening in" similar to how he asked Russia, on live television, to hack his political opponent during the election. In plain sight.

his supporters won't
Of course they won't. They have made it clear long ago that the rule of law, truth and decency do not factor in their support for the Dear Leader. That doesn't stop the rest from upholding those values, however.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Napp)
thus according to this rather dole concept of democracy he is an illegitimate president. Never mind the fact he cant even speak basic English...
By American politics he isn't, but it highlights the flaw of the electoral college system, not everyone's vote is equal - for instance Wyoming, population 578k, has 3 electoral college votes, or one per 193k. California meanwhile has 55 electoral college votes for a population of 39.56 million, one every 720k. It's absurd that a Wyoming citizen has 4 times the influence over the presidency than someone from California
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Ascend
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From Zelenskyy's statement to the UN General Assembly:

"[E]ach leader is responsible not only for the fate of his own country, but also for the fate of the whole world. In my opinion, we all need to realize that a strong leader is not the one who, without batting an eyelid, sends thousands of soldiers to death. A strong leader is the one who protects everyone's life.

Now let us answer ourselves - what do our meetings give to humanity? If for someone it is only a political theater where they play a role and declare light intentions, which are then crossed out by dark actions?"

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news...zagalnih-57477

Trump really is a piece of **** for abusing Ukraine's fragile situation in an extortion attempt.
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z-hog
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#24
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(Original post by Ascend)
Trump really is a piece of **** for abusing Ukraine's fragile situation in an extortion attempt.
Fair enough, what do you think of Biden's verified pre-conditioning of US dollars with the sacking of a Ukrainian prosecutor?
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Jebedee
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#25
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(Original post by _Wellies_)
You really need to grow up and develop a better understanding of politics beyond your simplistic right is good left is bad. This isn't about winning or losing. This is about whether a president adused his position of power, an allegation supported by the White House's own transcript.
Funnily enough, elections are exactly about winning or losing.

Maybe you should be the one to grow up and leave behind those fantasies of impeachment.
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Ascend
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#26
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(Original post by z-hog)
Fair enough, what do you think of Biden's verified pre-conditioning of US dollars with the sacking of a Ukrainian prosecutor?
Already addressed:

(Original post by Ascend)
Biden has been boasting about his efforts as part of the Obama admin to oust the corrupt prosecutor for doing exactly what he would want him to do (not prosecute corruption) if he and his son had anything to hide.
The irony is that Trump and Rudy were so desperate to find dirt on Biden that they engaged in an even bigger corruption than the one they are looking for (and have so far failed to substantiate).
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Ascend
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(Original post by Jebedee)
Funnily enough, elections are exactly about winning or losing.
In a constitutional republic, the masses don't have any right in "winning" against the constitution. Trump Populists seem to think that they live in some ****hole 'demagocracy' where they've elected a dictator.

Maybe you should be the one to grow up and leave behind those fantasies of impeachment.
It's happening.
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Jebedee
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#28
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(Original post by Ascend)
In a constitutional republic, the masses don't have any right in "winning" against the constitution. Trump Populists seem to think that they live in some ****hole 'demagocracy' where they've elected a dictator.


It's happening.
Good. Only a lunatic would support fighting against the constitution. But what's that got to do with people whining that they want to impeach someone because they can't win an election?

I'll happily take a bet with anyone here and eat a bowl of crap if I'm wrong. Which I'm not. There are no grounds for impeachment and the Ukraine call did not incriminate the president.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#29
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(Original post by Jebedee)
Good. Only a lunatic would support fighting against the constitution. But what's that got to do with people whining that they want to impeach someone because they can't win an election?

I'll happily take a bet with anyone here and eat a bowl of crap if I'm wrong. Which I'm not. There are no grounds for impeachment and the Ukraine call did not incriminate the president.

What are grounds for impeachment then if witholding agreed payments to another country to extort them for dirt on a potential opponent in the next election isn't?
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Jebedee
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#30
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
What are grounds for impeachment then if witholding agreed payments to another country to extort them for dirt on a potential opponent in the next election isn't?
Quote the exact words from the transcript where you think he said that.
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z-hog
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#31
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(Original post by Jebedee)
Quote the exact words from the transcript where you think he said that.
Don't be cruel...
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Ascend
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(Original post by Jebedee)
Good. Only a lunatic would support fighting against the constitution. But what's that got to do with people whining that they want to impeach someone because they can't win an election?
Quote the exact words from those people where you think they said that.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Jebedee)
Quote the exact words from the transcript where you think he said that.
(Original post by Criminal in Chief)
A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.

I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.

Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
So right there we have a clear implied threat as part of extortion: "we've been really good to you, do us a favour" - no-one brings up how good they've been immediately before asking for a favour without the implication being that you owe us and we're calling it in (i.e. if you don't do it, we won't help you any more), and the favour he asks for is to investigate the son of an opposing candidate. Not to mention that he's literally describing shutting down corruption as a horrible thing and very unfair
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Ascend
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
So right there we have a clear implied threat as part of extortion: "we've been really good to you, do us a favour" - no-one brings up how good they've been immediately before asking for a favour without the implication being that you owe us and we're calling it in (i.e. if you don't do it, we won't help you any more), and the favour he asks for is to investigate the son of an opposing candidate. Not to mention that he's literally describing shutting down corruption as a horrible thing and very unfair
More damning is the fact that Trump froze military assistance* days prior to the call for reasons that left everyone, including Republicans, baffled. It's now clear.

*this is a deal the USA and the UK made with Ukraine in 1994 and it's now a matter of life and death that Ukranians need the assist aganist Russian aggression.

He's playing with people's lives**, undermining both the national interest and foreign policy for personal gain.

**Barney Frank went as far as calling it accessory to murder. He's not wrong.
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Jebedee
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#35
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
So right there we have a clear implied threat as part of extortion: "we've been really good to you, do us a favour" - no-one brings up how good they've been immediately before asking for a favour without the implication being that you owe us and we're calling it in (i.e. if you don't do it, we won't help you any more), and the favour he asks for is to investigate the son of an opposing candidate. Not to mention that he's literally describing shutting down corruption as a horrible thing and very unfair
That's pretty weak, and for you to suggest that is justification of impeachment is beyond insane. If you were so concerned about political favours then trump certainly wouldn't be your main concern.

Then again like every thing else, this is just a desperate attempt to clutch at straws to fulfil an anti Trump agenda.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Jebedee)
That's pretty weak, and for you to suggest that is justification of impeachment is beyond insane. If you were so concerned about political favours then trump certainly wouldn't be your main concern.

Then again like every thing else, this is just a desperate attempt to clutch at straws to fulfil an anti Trump agenda.
It's not weak at all, it's a clear demand for quid pro quo, him using the office of President and it's diplomatic channels for his personal gain.
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Jebedee
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#37
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
It's not weak at all, it's a clear demand for quid pro quo, him using the office of President and it's diplomatic channels for his personal gain.
You said it was an implication in your previous post, that by definition is not clear. Even if what you are suggesting is true, why are you only choosing to care when it's Trump? That tells me your gripe is not genuine and just a way to get at him, in leiu of any genuine reasons.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#38
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(Original post by Jebedee)
You said it was an implication in your previous post, that by definition is not clear. Even if what you are suggesting is true, why are you only choosing to care when it's Trump? That tells me your gripe is not genuine and just a way to get at him, in leiu of any genuine reasons.
He's implying it, but everyone can see in context what it is unless they're wilfully choosing not to, because they've chosen to back the carrot Caligula above the rule of law, truth and decency (and sadly, since this describes a great deal of the republican party, impeachment will fail).

Care to point out who else has openly tried to use government funds to extort foreign powers to help interfere with an upcoming election? Whoever does such a thing is unsuited for office, but I've just not heard of anyone doing that besides the obergropenfuhrer.
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Ascend
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t-job-gone-bad

Trump tried to replicate Bannon's hit job against the Clintons by doing the same to Biden.

"Clinton’s subsequent loss in the 2016 election was proof of concept: You could spot a Democratic frontrunner years out and tarnish that person badly enough to ruin their candidacy."

The difference is he's not in his criminal-friendly Trump Towers anymore. The White House actually has some people with a conscience. The other difference is that Giuliani is no Bannon.
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Ascend
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#40
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#40
"[Trump] is the most powerful victim in the world."

- Stephen Colbert (via John Cleese)
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