Democratic Party begin impeachment inquiry against Trump Watch

Ascend
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
The impeachment process is because there is strong reason to suspect that Trump has abused the power of office for bribery and extortion, to pretend it's actually just about the 2016 election is to deal in a fictional world where Trump isn't a criminal.
That's exactly what the evidence is suggesting. Why on earth are the Democrats not using this language? Had the plimsoll been on the other foot, the Republicans would've cried BRIBERY HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANOURS!!!11!! on day zero.
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Trinculo
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#82
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(Original post by Ascend)
That's exactly what the evidence is suggesting. Why on earth are the Democrats not using this language? Had the plimsoll been on the other foot, the Republicans would've cried BRIBERY HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANOURS!!!11!! on day zero.
They can't, because it kills Biden.

Don't you get the mental gymnastics that are necessary to believe all this? What they are saying Trump may have done is exactly what Joe Biden has definitely done. On top of that, the conduct of this inquiry is utterly absurd - it's like Kavanaugh x10. They have found a whistleblower (whose identity they want to keep secret) who is almost certainly a hardcore Trump-hating Democrat - who colluded with the chairman of the inquiry *before* he stepped forward and blew the whistle on something he didn't actually know anything about.

Ask yourself - had the shoe been on the other foot, how absurd would you find this? Let's say back in the 90s, an anonymous whistleblower had come forward and said "Bill Clinton had sex with an intern. The intern said so on a phone call". Then you find out that this person will not make their name public, so you have no idea who is making this claim. Then you find out they don't actually know this first hand - they heard that this second hand from Linda Tripp- they have only been told there is a phone call. Then you find out that the whistleblower is a hardcore Republican. Then you find out that the whistleblower has been colluding with the Republicans for months. Then you find out that the whistleblower's lawyer has also been plotting this for *years*. Then you hear the actual phone call and (unlike in real life) it's not really conclusive. At what point do you say "ok, this is ridiculous"?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Trinculo)
They can't, because it kills Biden.

Don't you get the mental gymnastics that are necessary to believe all this? What they are saying Trump may have done is exactly what Joe Biden has definitely done. On top of that, the conduct of this inquiry is utterly absurd - it's like Kavanaugh x10. They have found a whistleblower (whose identity they want to keep secret) who is almost certainly a hardcore Trump-hating Democrat - who colluded with the chairman of the inquiry *before* he stepped forward and blew the whistle on something he didn't actually know anything about.

Ask yourself - had the shoe been on the other foot, how absurd would you find this? Let's say back in the 90s, an anonymous whistleblower had come forward and said "Bill Clinton had sex with an intern. The intern said so on a phone call". Then you find out that this person will not make their name public, so you have no idea who is making this claim. Then you find out they don't actually know this first hand - they heard that this second hand from Linda Tripp- they have only been told there is a phone call. Then you find out that the whistleblower is a hardcore Republican. Then you find out that the whistleblower has been colluding with the Republicans for months. Then you find out that the whistleblower's lawyer has also been plotting this for *years*. Then you hear the actual phone call and (unlike in real life) it's not really conclusive. At what point do you say "ok, this is ridiculous"?

Except again, none of that is true is it? In reality we've got testimonies from senior diplomats for the US in the EU and Ukraine saying that Trump looked to extort Zelensky by demanding he dig up compromising material about Biden or the US would withhold all financial aid, including defence.
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Cryoraptor
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#84
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(Original post by Trinculo)
There is something that flicked a switch in them and made them think that it was an existential question. Many Remainers honestly believe the insane rhetoric that Britain will become a Third World country outside the EU - and they will do anything, no matter how much it damages the discourse of the nation to win a battle that they felt *entitled* to win. They believe it isn't a question of opinion or "will of the people", but one of objective right and wrong. They believe that the only possible reason for voting Leave is racism, and that only people less intelligent than themselves could have done so - ergo democracy is an affront to reason and it must be set aside. They will use any tactic, any guile, any chicanery to restore what they believe should have been the correct result.

And monkey see, monkey do. The Democrats can see that paralysing the government and constantly doing nothing but slinging anything whatsoever at your opponent has worked (up until now, anyway) and so they do it too. Rather than run the country and present the laws that they want (given their House majority) all Dems want to do is "get Trump", and the way to do that is to jam government up with lawsuits and kangaroo court cases.
PRSOM, as a person of psychology I completely agree with this perspective
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Drewski
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Trinculo)
The Democrats can see that paralysing the government and constantly doing nothing but slinging anything whatsoever at your opponent has worked (up until now, anyway) and so they do it too. Rather than run the country and present the laws that they want (given their House majority) all Dems want to do is "get Trump", and the way to do that is to jam government up with lawsuits and kangaroo court cases.
That would be great.

If it even vaguely represented reality.

In actuality, the House has passed a number of bills and passed them on to the senate - because that's how the US system works - however the senate has refused to even vote on any of them.

Who runs the senate?
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Napp
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Except again, none of that is true is it? In reality we've got testimonies from senior diplomats for the US in the EU and Ukraine saying that Trump looked to extort Zelensky by demanding he dig up compromising material about Biden or the US would withhold all financial aid, including defence.
Don't forget one of Trumps allies and campaign backers.
A rather tasty bit of irony that Trump has a long and ignoble history of dropping his supporters in it, it seems the shoe in now on the other foot.
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4moreyears
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
What utter nonsense. The impeachment process is because there is strong reason to suspect that Trump has abused the power of office for bribery and extortion, to pretend it's actually just about the 2016 election is to deal in a fictional world where Trump isn't a criminal. Not to mention that it's different parts of the party that are gearing up for 2020; none of those involved in carrying out proper process and investigating the presidents crimes (almost like the job of the house and senate is to provide checks and balances against the executive) are involved in the primaries.
Wrong. The house investigates to see if there is evidence of abuse of power which rise to the level.of a high crime or misdemeaner. If they do they send it to the Senate which conducts the trial. If nothing else comes out of the investigation the majority leader has already proclaimed it " dead on arrival".
But in this case its far from dead.
The FBI and CIA, and probably a gaggle of lawyers have been busted with dirty hands. The Republicans are not going to let it lie. Not after all the crap they've put Trump through for the last 3 yrs.
Trump has a reputetion for hating corruption.
The aid was frozen long before the phone call.
Now, when Trump asked Zelensky for a favor was he asking it as part of an unofficial, Personal type "look-see" to get an overall idea on the level of corruption, which would have been perfectly proper before sending aid or was he asking to get dirt on Joe Biden as a political rival?
Any dirt he would have gotten on Biden may have been difficult to share publicly because of the nature of how it was obtained so it wouldnt have been worth the risk of asking for it with 15 other people in the room.
Also, Trump rightly or wrongly, does not view Biden as a threat to his second term.
Lets not forget, zelensky didnt feel pressured, he never conducted the investigation, and the aid flowed.
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Napp
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#88
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(Original post by 4moreyears)
Wrong. The house investigates to see if there is evidence of abuse of power which rise to the level.of a high crime or misdemeaner. If they do they send it to the Senate which conducts the trial. If nothing else comes out of the investigation the majority leader has already proclaimed it " dead on arrival".
But in this case its far from dead.
The FBI and CIA, and probably a gaggle of lawyers have been busted with dirty hands. The Republicans are not going to let it lie. Not after all the crap they've put Trump through for the last 3 yrs.
Trump has a reputetion for hating corruption.
The aid was frozen long before the phone call.
Now, when Trump asked Zelensky for a favor was he asking it as part of an unofficial, Personal type "look-see" to get an overall idea on the level of corruption, which would have been perfectly proper before sending aid or was he asking to get dirt on Joe Biden as a political rival?
Any dirt he would have gotten on Biden may have been difficult to share publicly because of the nature of how it was obtained so it wouldnt have been worth the risk of asking for it with 15 other people in the room.
Also, Trump rightly or wrongly, does not view Biden as a threat to his second term.
Lets not forget, zelensky didnt feel pressured, he never conducted the investigation, and the aid flowed.
Are you quite done being a criminal apologist yet?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#89
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#89
(Original post by 4moreyears)
Wrong. The house investigates to see if there is evidence of abuse of power which rise to the level.of a high crime or misdemeaner. If they do they send it to the Senate which conducts the trial. If nothing else comes out of the investigation the majority leader has already proclaimed it " dead on arrival".
So in other words the house and the senate are both responsible for holding the executive (the president) to account in the tripartite system America has. Or you could say they provide checks and balances against the executive within that system...
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4moreyears
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#90
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(Original post by Napp)
Are you quite done being a criminal apologist yet?
The Swamp is full of bottom feeding lawyers. If Trump were guilty of anything impeachable it would be plain to see. Its not so hes not. Get over it.
However Joe said publicly he told Ukaine to fire that prosecuter then he was dumb enough to say publicly that he got him fired. It doesnt any dumber than that.

Close to 80 thousannd new donors for Trump. Glorious. Thats 80 thousand "real wokes".
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#91
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(Original post by 4moreyears)
The Swamp is full of bottom feeding lawyers. If Trump were guilty of anything impeachable it would be plain to see. Its not so hes not. Get over it.
However Joe said publicly he told Ukaine to fire that prosecuter then he was dumb enough to say publicly that he got him fired. It doesnt any dumber than that.

Close to 80 thousannd new donors for Trump. Glorious. Thats 80 thousand "real wokes".

Well yeah, it would be pretty dumb for Biden to work on getting a prosecutor who turned a blind eye to corruption fired if Biden was engaging in corruption. However, he wasn't and all the evidence so far suggests that Trump was trying it on. So, swing and a miss for the apricot Assad and his acolytes
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Captain Haddock
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#92
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(Original post by 4moreyears)
The Swamp is full of bottom feeding lawyers. If Trump were guilty of anything impeachable it would be plain to see. Its not so hes not. Get over it.
However Joe said publicly he told Ukaine to fire that prosecuter then he was dumb enough to say publicly that he got him fired. It doesnt any dumber than that.

Close to 80 thousannd new donors for Trump. Glorious. Thats 80 thousand "real wokes".
Biden was just one of a great multitude of parties calling for Shokin's dismissal on the basis that he was failing to investigate, among other things, corruption within the very energy company that Hunter had been working for. By the time Biden started pressuring Ukraine to sack Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been shelved for over a year and it was obvious Shokin had no interested in pursuing the matter. That's why is was fired.
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4moreyears
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#93
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Well yeah, it would be pretty dumb for Biden to work on getting a prosecutor who turned a blind eye to corruption fired if Biden was engaging in corruption. However, he wasn't and all the evidence so far suggests that Trump was trying it on. So, swing and a miss for the apricot Assad and his acolytes
We shall see, wont we?
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Napp
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#94
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(Original post by 4moreyears)
The Swamp is full of bottom feeding lawyers. If Trump were guilty of anything impeachable it would be plain to see. Its not so hes not. Get over it.
And pond scum property 'tycoons' it would seem.
At any rate, are you being intentionally blind or do you not follow what comes out of his mouth or tiny little twitter fingers?
However Joe said publicly he told Ukaine to fire that prosecuter then he was dumb enough to say publicly that he got him fired. It doesnt any dumber than that.
Maybe so but we're not talking about Biden (who is better than the rest of that gaggle of twits in the Dem's at present i might add) and whataboutery will not fly here.
Close to 80 thousannd new donors for Trump. Glorious. Thats 80 thousand "real wokes".
I havent a clue what you mean by 'real wokes' so im going to assume its a slur, just like calling anyone else 'woke' is
Either way, 80,000 donors? Remind me what the population of America is again and how much these 'real woke' chappies have actually coughed up?
Although on the topic of campaign funds, i trust you saw that Trump was found guilty of effectively looting a charity for personal gain?
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4moreyears
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(Original post by Captain Haddock)
Biden was just one of a great multitude of parties calling for Shokin's dismissal on the basis that he was failing to investigate, among other things, corruption within the very energy company that Hunter had been working for. By the time Biden started pressuring Ukraine to sack Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been shelved for over a year and it was obvious Shokin had no interested in pursuing the matter. That's why is was fired.
Apparently the investigation was'nt over. Biden the younger was getting 50thou a month and sometimes 80 for knowing and doing nothing and his dad knew nothing. Thats believable.
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4moreyears
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#96
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(Original post by Napp)
And pond scum property 'tycoons' it would seem.
At any rate, are you being intentionally blind or do you not follow what comes out of his mouth or tiny little twitter fingers?

Maybe so but we're not talking about Biden (who is better than the rest of that gaggle of twits in the Dem's at present i might add) and whataboutery will not fly here.

I havent a clue what you mean by 'real wokes' so im going to assume its a slur, just like calling anyone else 'woke' is
Either way, 80,000 donors? Remind me what the population of America is again and how much these 'real woke' chappies have actually coughed up?
Although on the topic of campaign funds, i trust you saw that Trump was found guilty of effectively looting a charity for personal gain?
Yeah that's right. Trump needs to swipe 2mil. of his own money from his own charity.
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Napp
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(Original post by 4moreyears)
Yeah that's right. Trump needs to swipe 2mil. of his own money from his own charity.
Well seeing as he's been found guilty and you know nothing about the case... yeah.
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4moreyears
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(Original post by Napp)
Well seeing as he's been found guilty and you know nothing about the case... yeah.
Trumps been found guilty of nothing. He was ordered by a judge to pay it.
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Napp
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(Original post by 4moreyears)
Trumps been found guilty of nothing. He was ordered by a judge to pay it.
Your grasp of how justice works is troubling. Especially as Trump, through his lawyer, admitted fault.
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4moreyears
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#100
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#100
(Original post by Napp)
Your grasp of how justice works is troubling. Especially as Trump, through his lawyer, admitted fault.
" Come on folks, move along, there's nothing here to see.".
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