J Papi
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List of documents (click to download):
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J Papi
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Reserved!
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LostLioness
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(Original post by J Papi)
Reserved for fancy charts and for tagging people.

This is how dedicated I aspire to be. Seriously, thank you for all your guidance, we appreiciate it so much.

Also, love the new username. :rofl:
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harrysbar
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Amazing data.....am I missing something or is there not much diversity data from Exeter? None on BME for example :confused:
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returnmigrant
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None of this will tell you if you will enjoy the course, or enjoy being at that Uni, or get a First.

Go to Open Days - and make your own decisions.
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returnmigrant
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I have only looked at your LNAT sheet - and that has too many assumptions.

All Universities use the essay section differently and mark differently - so comparing these supposed scores on a graph is a bit daft. Also, there is no 'ratio' - if a University has higher numbers of applicants regardless of the number of places then clearly the incidence of high scores is likely to be higher. Nottingham's spike is probably because it has a cut-off score. These are application scores - not offer scores. You have also not differentiated between Home/Overseas - many Universities will treat these applications differently.

So, statistics are wonderful - but unless you acknowledge context, and understand that context, they can provide very misleading conclusions. This is the sort of 'higher thinking' you will learn at University - this article is a good place to start https://www.datapine.com/blog/mislea...tics-and-data/
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harrysbar
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
None of this will tell you if you will enjoy the course, or enjoy being at that Uni, or get a First.

Go to Open Days - and make your own decisions.
True but we are constantly being asked questions about students chances of being accepted by particular Law schools etc so the more objective information we have access to the better. I agree that young people should attend Open Days if possible, but non UK students can find them problematic, whilst even UK schools often limit the number of days off students are allowed for this purpose to about 3 per academic year.
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J Papi
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
None of this will tell you if you will enjoy the course, or enjoy being at that Uni, or get a First.

Go to Open Days - and make your own decisions.
It was never claimed to do any of the above (much less be determinative of anything. But this is the sort of vital data that people have repeatedly shown interest in. A lot of it - particularly data on cohort size, student satisfaction and diversity - is not accessible in an easy-to-read format.

'Go to an Open Day' is a classic cop-out from someone who thinks that the prettiness of the surrounding area and the oratory skills of the department's best lecturer are the only relevant factors for a student to consider.

(Original post by returnmigrant)
All Universities use the essay section differently and mark differently - so comparing these supposed scores on a graph is a bit daft.
Which graph are you referring to? I don't recall comparing the essay scores on a graph. What I have done is list them for a single year, together with their marking criteria (which are obviously far more important).

Also, there is no 'ratio' - if a University has higher numbers of applicants regardless of the number of places then clearly the incidence of high scores is likely to be higher.
Already acknowledged in the 'Read Me' section. Sadly, data on offer rates per score was refused.

Nottingham's spike is probably because it has a cut-off score.
Excellent interpretation - and something that we didn't know before.

[quote]These are application scores - not offer scores.[quote]
No. All of this data involves scores achieved by offerholders. Read the relevant requests.

You have also not differentiated between Home/Overseas - many Universities will treat these applications differently.
Finally a good point - it's been added to the relevant spreadsheet.

So, statistics are wonderful - but unless you acknowledge context, and understand that context, they can provide very misleading conclusions. This is the sort of 'higher thinking' you will learn at University - this article is a good place to start https://www.datapine.com/blog/mislea...tics-and-data/
Honestly, all but one of the points you raised are off target, so I'm not sure where this apparent statistical illiteracy is coming from w.r.t. the LNAT data. I'm sensing a salty gimp with an axe to grind here.
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J Papi
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Amazing data.....am I missing something or is there not much diversity data from Exeter? None on BME for example :confused:
They refused it on the basis that the diversity data can be requested from HESA

It's a bit of a shame actually

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque..._passthrough=1
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LostLioness
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Amazing data.....am I missing something or is there not much diversity data from Exeter? None on BME for example :confused:
You actually read most of the data? My lazy a$$ downloaded it for later. Anyways, I was hoping there would be some data on students resitting and how likely it is that they would receive offers. However, having emailed all the unis I am interested in, it would seem that they all consider applicants using a 'holistic approach' (mhm sure). Durham (emailed almost all colleges) got back to me with one person saying "oh you are more than capable!" and I could feel lies right through my computer screen. Most colleges didn't get back. I suppose I will find out when I apply and see how that goes. I am having second thoughts, perhaps I should apply after I receive grades in the summer 2020? Though I have no plans for a gap year and thus I shall apply this year regardless and hope I receive some offers. I hope I am not wasting my time making an application via UCAS this year.

By the way, J Papi , sorry to bother but did you make a request for data regarding resitting students and the likelihood of them receiving offers?
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harrysbar
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(Original post by LostLioness)
You actually read most of the data? My lazy a$$ downloaded it for later. Anyways, I was hoping there would be some data on students resitting and how likely it is that they would receive offers. However, having emailed all the unis I am interested in, it would seem that they all consider applicants using a 'holistic approach' (mhm sure). Durham (emailed almost all colleges) got back to me with one person saying "oh you are more than capable!" and I could feel lies right through my computer screen. Most colleges didn't get back. I suppose I will find out when I apply and see how that goes. I am having second thoughts, perhaps I should apply after I receive grades in the summer 2020? Though I have no plans for a gap year and thus I shall apply this year regardless and hope I receive some offers. I hope I am not wasting my time making an application via UCAS this year.

By the way, J Papi , sorry to bother but did you make a request for data regarding resitting students and the likelihood of them receiving offers?
I wouldn't say I've read most of it - it will take some time to digest and I had lunch in a nice Italian restaurant and digested their offerings instead

But Lioness, you should definitely apply this year, what have you got to lose? You should apply to Durham and 4 other places and take it from there. You are not wasting your time you are just suffering a temporary loss of confidence and that is why the Law forum is here, to encourage you to press on.
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LostLioness
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I wouldn't say I've read most of it - it will take some time to digest and I had lunch in a nice Italian restaurant and digested their offerings instead

But Lioness, you should definitely apply this year, what have you got to lose? You should apply to Durham and 4 other places and take it from there. You are not wasting your time you are just suffering a temporary loss of confidence and that is why the Law forum is here, to encourage you to press on.
At least one of us is living her best life.

Thank you. :hugs: I hope it is temporary.
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J Papi
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(Original post by LostLioness)
You actually read most of the data? My lazy a$$ downloaded it for later. Anyways, I was hoping there would be some data on students resitting and how likely it is that they would receive offers. However, having emailed all the unis I am interested in, it would seem that they all consider applicants using a 'holistic approach' (mhm sure). Durham (emailed almost all colleges) got back to me with one person saying "oh you are more than capable!" and I could feel lies right through my computer screen. Most colleges didn't get back. I suppose I will find out when I apply and see how that goes. I am having second thoughts, perhaps I should apply after I receive grades in the summer 2020? Though I have no plans for a gap year and thus I shall apply this year regardless and hope I receive some offers. I hope I am not wasting my time making an application via UCAS this year.

By the way, J Papi , sorry to bother but did you make a request for data regarding resitting students and the likelihood of them receiving offers?
A request is under way, but it may take another month or more for all of the unis to reply

The data is far too much for anyone other than the person who compiled it - but it's useful as a reference. It's a good way to confirm or disprove assertions about law courses.
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J Papi
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(Original post by LostLioness)
x
Hey - I just had another look at whatdotheyknow.com, and it seems that the three universities that provided data on alternative qualifications thus far are not providing data for resits because they 'do not record it'. I'm just letting you know so that you don't get your hopes up too much regarding that data... some things are just not meant to be
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LostLioness
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(Original post by J Papi)
Hey - I just had another look at whatdotheyknow.com, and it seems that the three universities that provided data on alternative qualifications thus far are not providing data for resits because they 'do not record it'. I'm just letting you know so that you don't get your hopes up too much regarding that data... some things are just not meant to be
You break my heart. jk

It is alright and anyways I think I should stop worrying about the data and just worry about my own application. The emails I got back from Durham (surprisingly few in comparison to the responses from Oxbridge) instructed me to apply without worrying too much about resitting. I suppose we will see if I get offers this year (highly doubt I will from Durham), but I won't know if I don't apply. Thank you so much for trying though, really appreciate it!
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(Original post by LostLioness)
You break my heart. jk

It is alright and anyways I think I should stop worrying about the data and just worry about my own application. The emails I got back from Durham (surprisingly few in comparison to the responses from Oxbridge) instructed me to apply without worrying too much about resitting. I suppose we will see if I get offers this year (highly doubt I will from Durham), but I won't know if I don't apply. Thank you so much for trying though, really appreciate it!
That's the spirit, Lioness, you will never know if you don't apply. It won't be the end of the world if you get one rejection, better than always wondering "what if?" in any case
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LostLioness
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(Original post by harrysbar)
That's the spirit, Lioness, you will never know if you don't apply. It won't be the end of the world if you get one rejection, better than always wondering "what if?" in any case
Please call me Lost for now. :rofl:
Also, I have been thinking quite deeply as of late and have arrived at the conclusion that delivering bad news should be made a criminal offense. Your thoughts on this?

Yeah, it is a bit of an odd situation. I was wondering whether I should preserve the energy that goes into applying for revision and apply with results but then again, I don't fancy another gap year. :hugs: Thank you for being so encouraging Harrys, means a lot.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by LostLioness)
Please call me Lost for now. :rofl:
Also, I have been thinking quite deeply as of late and have arrived at the conclusion that delivering bad news should be made a criminal offense. Your thoughts on this?

Yeah, it is a bit of an odd situation. I was wondering whether I should preserve the energy that goes into applying for revision and apply with results but then again, I don't fancy another gap year. :hugs: Thank you for being so encouraging Harrys, means a lot.
Ok, you're Lost

I think you should apply this year, definitely - just don't overthink it too much, get your application in and forget about it. Bad news.....I've thought about delivering it and receiving it, and on the whole, I'm against the whole thing
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LostLioness
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Ok, you're Lost

I think you should apply this year, definitely - just don't overthink it too much, get your application in and forget about it. Bad news.....I've thought about delivering it and receiving it, and on the whole, I'm against the whole thing

You never have bad news to deliver, only good. What is up with people lying to me today?


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J Papi
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(Original post by LostLioness)
You never have bad news to deliver, only good. What is up with people lying to me today?


x
Btw we seem to have found the reason why so many universities don't hold data on candidates who resat:

"We are unable to provide a response to question 5 - we do not hold A level predictions as they will have been updated with actual results." (from Worcester U)
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