barnetlad
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#41
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#41
The majority of people I know are remainers which is typical of London. The only staunch Brexit supporter has the misfortune to have Mr Johnson as his MP.
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ColinDent
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#42
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#42
(Original post by QE2)
Do you claim that any of the above is factually incorrect?
If so, present your evidence!
Well the fact is that over half of those who voted on the day voted to leave, you are spinning facts to suit your needs my friend.
Also if various leave options add up to more than 50% then there are still more people wanting to leave
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QE2
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
In paragraph order
Why won't you split the original post? It makes things much easier.

Yes many of the adult population are no entitled to vote.
Really? Who are they and how many is "many"?

Oh course you have
Your inability to understand something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You voted labour in the knowledge doing so would mean upholding the referendum, just like myself.
Wrong. I voted Labour in the expectation that most Labour MPs would exercise their parliamentary duty in the best interests of the country. It was clear at the time of the GE that although the leadership were vacillating, the rank and file were staunchly Remain.

So in you're world the conservatives did not win the 2015 election?
In the real world they did not. They gained more seats than anyone else but that does not constitute a "win" under out parliamentary system. That is why they had to bribe the DUP in order to form a government. As I have said before, your lack of knowledge of issues means that your opinions on them are meaningless.

Question: In a GE, Tories get 26%, Labour 25% Lib Dems 25% and Greens 24%. Who "won" the election?

The Brexit party did not win the European election, despite becoming the largest party in European parliament?
No. Because they only gained 31% of the vote, meaning that 69% of people did not vote for them. They only gained the largest single share of the vote.
Pro Brexit parties gained 45% of the vote. Pro Remain parties gained 55% of the vote.

Question: (See question above)

How did remain supporting parties win the majority of votes in the EU elections, please explain what style of total BS you are going to use for that?
Just add up the shares of the vote. Quite simple.

Yes I have, i think leave fits well into artical 50 and deal or no deal
Only the utterly deluded would claim that "Leave" equally accommodates "Deal x" and "No Deal", and each side would be happy to accept the other position. If you have been watching events over the last few months, you clearly haven't understood them.
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QE2
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#44
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#44
(Original post by ColinDent)
Well the fact is that over half of those who voted on the day voted to leave, you are spinning facts to suit your needs my friend.
So you admit that my statements were factual.

Also if various leave options add up to more than 50% then there are still more people wanting to leave
So if 5 meat eaters and 5 vegans all vote to have dinner, steak is fine for everyone?
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Burton Bridge
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#45
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#45
(Original post by QE2)
*sigh*


Question 1: Do you believe that our current high VAT rate is a result of A) EU directive or B) UK law?
Simple A or B answer please.

Question 2: Do you believe that the different rates and the goods covered by the different rates is determined by A) EU directive or B) UK law?
Simple A or B answer please.
Your questions are nonsense. I've already said the UKs VAT rate is set higher than the EU's regulations. The reason for this is the right wing tories prefer regressive taxes like VAT opposed to progressive taxes like income tax! So I've already clearly answered this but what the hell B and B but it still didn't change the fact that we simply cannot fully control VAT while we are members of the EU. Do you still think we can?

Do you think we can abolish VAT altogether while we are members of the EU, yes or no?
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Burton Bridge
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#46
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#46
(Original post by QE2)
Why won't you split the original post? It makes things much easier..
Because it graft on a phone ahd you needlessly break sentences down into a million bits often removing contextual content to knowingly make a false point.

(Original post by QE2)

Really? Who are they and how many is "many"?.
Really yes, like prisoners or the severe mentally ill and others. I surprised you don't know this.

(Original post by QE2)
Your inability to understand something doesn't mean it didn't happen..
Oh course :rofl:

(Original post by QE2)

Wrong. I voted Labour in the expectation that most Labour MPs would exercise their parliamentary duty in the best interests of the country. It was clear at the time of the GE that although the leadership were vacillating, the rank and file were staunchly Remain..
Oh right, so let me get this straight, you voted remain on the premise that the manifesto was a dishonest document with lies within it? Correct?

(Original post by QE2)
In the real world they did not. They gained more seats than anyone else but that does not constitute a "win" under out parliamentary system. That is why they had to bribe the DUP in order to form a government. As I have said before, your lack of knowledge of issues means that your opinions on them are meaningless.

Question: In a GE, Tories get 26%, Labour 25% Lib Dems 25% and Greens 24%. Who "won" the election
Before you try to insult me start to get your own facts correct, it's embarrassing how often you big up yourself/put down others on incorrect points. Reality check

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results


(Original post by QE2)
No. Because they only gained 31% of the vote, meaning that 69% of people did not vote for them. They only gained the largest single share of the vote.
Pro Brexit parties gained 45% of the vote. Pro Remain parties gained 55% of the vote.

Question: (See question above)


Just add up the shares of the vote.
Yeah... No that's not how European elections work they are not run on FPTP. Reality is

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-48417228


(Original post by QE2)
Only the utterly deluded would claim that "Leave" equally accommodates "Deal x" and "No Deal", and each side would be happy to accept the other position. If you have been watching events over the last few months, you clearly haven't understood them.

You shout about how people don't understand but it's clear that's not the case.


Do you think that no deal is not leaving the EU?
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 3 weeks ago
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ColinDent
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#47
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#47
(Original post by QE2)
So you admit that my statements were factual.


So if 5 meat eaters and 5 vegans all vote to have dinner, steak is fine for everyone?
If all this hyperbole keeps you happy then carry on, but I've said all I need to about this now.
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the bear
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#48
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#48
(Original post by QE2)
It wasn't "fair", as ruled by the court of appeal. Although given the demographic of Leave voters, "square" is probably pretty accurate, daddy-o.
well the "square" people got out of bed in time to get to the polling station. the "hep cats" were too busy lying in bed doing other things.
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StormXibalba
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#49
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#49
(Original post by QE2)
Why won't you split the original post? It makes things much easier.


Really? Who are they and how many is "many"?


Your inability to understand something doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Wrong. I voted Labour in the expectation that most Labour MPs would exercise their parliamentary duty in the best interests of the country. It was clear at the time of the GE that although the leadership were vacillating, the rank and file were staunchly Remain.


In the real world they did not. They gained more seats than anyone else but that does not constitute a "win" under out parliamentary system. That is why they had to bribe the DUP in order to form a government. As I have said before, your lack of knowledge of issues means that your opinions on them are meaningless.

Question: In a GE, Tories get 26%, Labour 25% Lib Dems 25% and Greens 24%. Who "won" the election?


No. Because they only gained 31% of the vote, meaning that 69% of people did not vote for them. They only gained the largest single share of the vote.
Pro Brexit parties gained 45% of the vote. Pro Remain parties gained 55% of the vote.

Question: (See question above)


Just add up the shares of the vote. Quite simple.


Only the utterly deluded would claim that "Leave" equally accommodates "Deal x" and "No Deal", and each side would be happy to accept the other position. If you have been watching events over the last few months, you clearly haven't understood them.
You're counting Labour as pro remain in that vote.

They were not pro remain in that election.
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Burton Bridge
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#50
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#50
(Original post by StormXibalba)
You're counting Labour as pro remain in that vote.

They were not pro remain in that election.
Lol he knows this also because he previously stated it, he's just got himself so confused he's typing any old tripe.

Moral of the story, it's not weak to admit you are wrong.
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QE2
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Your questions are nonsense. I've already said the UKs VAT rate is set higher than the EU's regulations. The reason for this is the right wing tories prefer regressive taxes like VAT opposed to progressive taxes like income tax! So I've already clearly answered this but what the hell B and B
So you therefore admit that "setting VAT rates" is not a rational reason for voting Leave, as VAT rates will not change after Brexit, (although they may go up) and the UK government can set rates lower than 15% now.

[qote]but it still didn't change the fact that we simply cannot fully control VAT while we are members of the EU. Do you still think we can? [/quote] I never claimed we could (although we have far more control that you seem to believe). I was simply pointing out that your claim was wrong and that voting Leave in order to lower VAT rates was nonsense (I assume that you are aware that we can make them higher now, so that couldn't be a problem)

Do you think we can abolish VAT altogether while we are members of the EU, yes or no?
Nope.
Never claimed we could.
My argument never relied on the idea.
You seem confused as to what we are actually talking about here (quelle surprise)

Given that Leaving the EU will not lower VAT below 15%, and UK consumers were paying higher rates of VAT before joining the EU (purchase tax), I'm really not sure why you are so obsessed with VAT.
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QE2
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Really yes, like prisoners or the severe mentally ill and others. I surprised you don't know this.
People suffering from mental illness can vote. Who told you they can't?
There are 80,000 people in prison, that is not "many" compared to 46 million.
"And others"? Who might they be, pray tell?

Oh course
See above. You think mentally ill people cannot vote, and 80,000 is "many" compared to 46 million.

Oh right, so let me get this straight, you voted remain on the premise that the manifesto was a dishonest document with lies within it? Correct?
My vote in the 2016 referendum had nothing to do with Labour's 2017 GE manifesto. How could it?
(It is meaningless to claim that you understand the issues when you say things like this)

Before you try to insult me start to get your own facts correct, it's embarrassing how often you big up yourself/put down others on incorrect points. Reality check
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results
Oh, **** me! That is the 2015 election. The one before Brexit. You really are the gift that keeps on giving!
Here are the results of the 2017 GE, clearly showing the Tories failing to gain a majority (or "win" as you so charmingly call it).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results

Yeah... No that's not how European elections work they are not run on FPTP. Reality is
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-48417228
Not sure what point you are trying to make there, but from that link...
Pro-Brexit seats - 34
Pro-Remain seats - 39

You shout about how people don't understand but it's clear that's not the case.
Do you think that no deal is not leaving the EU?
*sound of head banging on desk*
There are many (I mean this in the correct sense) Leavers who reject No Deal and vote against it.
There are also Leavers who reject the WA and vote against it.
Do you claim that these two groups are united in achieving the same goal? (Free clue - if they are, we would have left the EU in March)
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QE2
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#53
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#53
(Original post by ColinDent)
If all this hyperbole keeps you happy then carry on, but I've said all I need to about this now.
I'll take that as conceding my point.
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QE2
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#54
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#54
(Original post by the bear)
well the "square" people got out of bed in time to get to the polling station. the "hep cats" were too busy lying in bed doing other things.
Oh man, you're harshing my mellow with your negativity.
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QE2
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#55
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#55
(Original post by StormXibalba)
You're counting Labour as pro remain in that vote.

They were not pro remain in that election.
While the leadership may have been prevaricating, the rank and file were Remain. Many Labour candidates expressly stated that they were pro-Remain as did Welsh Labour.
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Burton Bridge
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#56
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#56
(Original post by QE2)
So you therefore admit that "setting VAT rates" is not a rational reason for voting Leave, as VAT rates will not change after Brexit, (although they may go up) and the UK government can set rates lower than 15% now.

I never claimed we could (although we have far more control that you seem to believe). I was simply pointing out that your claim was wrong and that voting Leave in order to lower VAT rates was nonsense (I assume that you are aware that we can make them higher now, so that couldn't be a problem)


Nope.
Never claimed we could.
My argument never relied on the idea.
You seem confused as to what we are actually talking about here (quelle surprise)
Before I debunk the above. On the point of VAT as a socialist, VAT always rise's under the conservatives because it is regressive. In my world I like to remove it completely or at least only have it on certain harmful things like cigarettes and alcohol. The socialist left tend to prefer progressive taxes because regressive taxes that this that EU force into us disproportionately effect the poorest the most.

Thank you very much, no the UK is not sovereignty when it comes to setting VAT and a benefit of leaving is we can set VAT below the minimum requirement the EU enforce on us, which was my point days ago.

Which was my only original point when I was speaking too another poster on another topic and you jumped in to clumsy feet first and incorrectly called it rubbish. You and the other poster @imlikeahermit I believe was incorrectly stating the UK can set VAT where it likes and brexit is solely about xenophobia and I have no possible reason to leave other than immigration.

No you are now trying to create a stawman. So the UK cannot fully control VAT we reach agreement that I was right in the first place.
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ColinDent
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#57
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#57
(Original post by QE2)
I'll take that as conceding my point.
Yet again if that's what makes you happy, I actually just tire of banging my head against a brick wall
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ColinDent
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#58
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#58
(Original post by QE2)
While the leadership may have been prevaricating, the rank and file were Remain. Many Labour candidates expressly stated that they were pro-Remain as did Welsh Labour.
Yet they were happy to stand on a manifesto which said that they would honour the result of the referendum, the public gave them their chance, it won't happen again.
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Burton Bridge
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#59
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#59
(Original post by QE2)
People suffering from mental illness can vote. Who told you they can't?
There are 80,000 people in prison, that is not "many" compared to 46 million.
"And others"? Who might they be, pray tell?


See above. You think mentally ill people cannot vote, and 80,000 is "many" compared to 46 million.


My vote in the 2016 referendum had nothing to do with Labour's 2017 GE manifesto. How could it?
(It is meaningless to claim that you understand the issues when you say things like this)


Oh, **** me! That is the 2015 election. The one before Brexit. You really are the gift that keeps on giving!
Here are the results of the 2017 GE, clearly showing the Tories failing to gain a majority (or "win" as you so charmingly call it).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results


Not sure what point you are trying to make there, but from that link...
Pro-Brexit seats - 34
Pro-Remain seats - 39


*sound of head banging on desk*
There are many (I mean this in the correct sense) Leavers who reject No Deal and vote against it.
There are also Leavers who reject the WA and vote against it.
Do you claim that these two groups are united in achieving the same goal? (Free clue - if they are, we would have left the EU in March)
Right that's it in done, I'm litterally talking about the 2015 election, I clearly wrote 2 then an 0 then a 1 then a 5 :stupid: and you highlighted it.:ahee:

You have got to be trolling me, I'm done
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 3 weeks ago
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QE2
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#60
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#60
(Original post by ColinDent)
Yet they were happy to stand on a manifesto which said that they would honour the result of the referendum, the public gave them their chance, it won't happen again.
You do realise that the large majority of Labour voters voted Remain in the referendum, and many Labour MPs explicitly stated that they support Remain. Simply banging on about manifesto, which was irrelevant on the issue of Brexit then, and has been superseded now, is meaningless.
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