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Can you trust the news?

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Reply 60
Avatar for HiViz9
HiViz9
11
Original post by Fullofsurprises
What specific lies have the Guardian told about Yaxley-Lennon?

Lie by omission is still a lie. They could have focussed on the revelation on the thousands of raped girls. Just as when it spends day after day on the matter of antisemitism and LGBTQ. When prince Harry strokes a cat he gets full cover for days. No person has ever been imprisoned for Civil Contempt in the UK... not ever. If I was a newspapr I would focus on this obvious hounding of Tommy Robinson. I use him as an example. I have no personal interest in what he does except in the context of fair media cover. Do you think he was fairly covered in regard to what we expect from or media?
Original post by HiViz9
Lie by omission is still a lie. They could have focussed on the revelation on the thousands of raped girls. Just as when it spends day after day on the matter of antisemitism and LGBTQ. When prince Harry strokes a cat he gets full cover for days. No person has ever been imprisoned for Civil Contempt in the UK... not ever. If I was a newspapr I would focus on this obvious hounding of Tommy Robinson. I use him as an example. I have no personal interest in what he does except in the context of fair media cover. Do you think he was fairly covered in regard to what we expect from or media?

You're the one twisting things. I've been a very regular reader of the Guardian for years and they covered the child abuse scandals very extensively and exhaustively. It is true that they didn't use them for racist and inflammatory propaganda like the Mail, the Express, the Sun, certain Brexit and Tory MPs, etc, but they did pay a lot of attention to those stories. You just make yourself look ridiculous in an intelligent thread like this by spouting a hard right Brexit extremist / EDL line and then claiming that is evidence of a fake news agenda in the Guardian.
Reply 62
Avatar for HiViz9
HiViz9
11
Original post by Fullofsurprises
You're the one twisting things. I've been a very regular reader of the Guardian for years and they covered the child abuse scandals very extensively and exhaustively. It is true that they didn't use them for racist and inflammatory propaganda like the Mail, the Express, the Sun, certain Brexit and Tory MPs, etc, but they did pay a lot of attention to those stories. You just make yourself look ridiculous in an intelligent thread like this by spouting a hard right Brexit extremist / EDL line and then claiming that is evidence of a fake news agenda in the Guardian.

Wow? I gather you dont like my comments. I am not seeking approval. This is my view and I stick to it. The truth is the truth and right or left wing or EDL is not the point. It is obvious you are a regular reader. I have stated my case and the fact that you proudly boast of your Guardian leftie allegiance while presuming to know my political allegiance is laughable. Of course as the Guardian it is de facto a leftie liberal publication ans I expect and know that. I am not calling for left and right views be mixed together as some pretentious false existence. I am saying, yes I know what the Guardian is about. I simply point that out as has been asked in the initial post. You are free to dismiss it. The Times newspaper did a full investigation from the start into the multiple rapes of young white girls... (not child abuse, how pathetic) do you really think the rape, imprisonment, drugging, assaulting, gang-banging of thousands and thousands of young girls is "child abuse". You must be deluded. The Guardian was forced to report on it because they would look stupid with The Times having worked with Tommy Robinson to get this crime.. on of the worst cases of serious crimianl acts in UK history - "child abuse2 LOL LOL
Original post by HiViz9
Wow? I gather you dont like my comments. I am not seeking approval. This is my view and I stick to it. The truth is the truth and right or left wing or EDL is not the point. It is obvious you are a regular reader. I have stated my case and the fact that you proudly boast of your Guardian leftie allegiance while presuming to know my political allegiance is laughable. Of course as the Guardian it is de facto a leftie liberal publication ans I expect and know that. I am not calling for left and right views be mixed together as some pretentious false existence. I am saying, yes I know what the Guardian is about. I simply point that out as has been asked in the initial post. You are free to dismiss it. The Times newspaper did a full investigation from the start into the multiple rapes of young white girls... (not child abuse, how pathetic) do you really think the rape, imprisonment, drugging, assaulting, gang-banging of thousands and thousands of young girls is "child abuse". You must be deluded. The Guardian was forced to report on it because they would look stupid with The Times having worked with Tommy Robinson to get this crime.. on of the worst cases of serious crimianl acts in UK history - "child abuse2 LOL LOL

Suffice to say there was no merit whatever in your earlier assertion that the Guardian was guilty of fake news in this context.
Original post by shadowdweller
Can you trust any news source, definitely not. But some are trustworthy still, I believe - a more fundamental issue at the moment seems to be not whether the stories being reported are true, but the fact that so many crucial issues are simply not being reported, or not being vocalised in a lot of media currently.


There are plenty of news sources I broadly trust. And there are individual journalists or bloggers or writers I will normally trust. But it's good to be sceptical: journalists are trained to be, after all!
Original post by HiViz9
Most people accept the "gilding of the Lilly" but will not tolerate outright lies. The problem is the arrogance of the people in the media is such that they will not see they are lying. President Trump is dealing with this matter perfectly, in fact so much so that CNN is on the verge of bankruptcy and deserves to go bust. The Guardian in particular, as a leftie paper, can not be honest about Tommy Robinson. OK, show his bad parts - "gild the Lilly" but why do outright stitch-up on him. OK, this is the way of the Guardian. Then live with it. But people know it is lie after lie and this is why the Investigative Journalist is seen as a joke. I would put the behaviour of the authorities in regard to the girls who were raped and abused as a million times more worse than anything Tommy Robinson has done.
It is simple... people want the truth. We know you have to spin a bit, we get that. But, when you insult our intelligence, showing contempt... you deserve to go bust.
I have never seen or heard a single MP stand up in the House of Commons for any proper policy or subject. NOT EVER, in the past 8 years. Why is that? Its because we are in an era of dishonesty and duplicity and they simply do not care. This is reflected in the papers/media who does NOT hold them to account. Without seeking the truth it will all go down the pan.

You';; have to do better than that, I'm afraid. two things: a) give specific examples of the Guardian not being honest about Tommy Robinson. b) "Not a single MP stand up for a single proper policy or subject in 8 years, NOT EVER." Come on. we can all critique the quality of debate and individuals in the HoC. But this kind of exaggeration is, I'm afraid, silly.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Suffice to say there was no merit whatever in your earlier assertion that the Guardian was guilty of fake news in this context.

certainly, no evidence.
Original post by Puddles the Monkey

or
https://academic.oup.com/joc/article/67/4/476/4642154
or
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1461444817724170
Reply 68
Avatar for HiViz9
HiViz9
11
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Suffice to say there was no merit whatever in your earlier assertion that the Guardian was guilty of fake news in this context.

The Guardian’s anti-Brexit fake news

An article, since deleted, made nonsense claims about the treatment of EU migrants.

From Spiked. Its on google.
Reply 69
Avatar for HiViz9
HiViz9
11
https://youtu.be/eT27SlfIpiY

Video about The Guardian .... Tommy Robinson.
Reply 70
Avatar for Eian01
Eian01
6
In today's world its really hard to trust the mainstream media. Media houses are at war in the rage of breaking news, and for getting the maximum viewership news networks at times present manipulate the facts around. Even the big media outlets are ever ready to do overplayed when suits their interest.
Original post by HiViz9
Lie by omission is still a lie. They could have focussed on the revelation on the thousands of raped girls. Just as when it spends day after day on the matter of antisemitism and LGBTQ. When prince Harry strokes a cat he gets full cover for days. No person has ever been imprisoned for Civil Contempt in the UK... not ever. If I was a newspapr I would focus on this obvious hounding of Tommy Robinson. I use him as an example. I have no personal interest in what he does except in the context of fair media cover. Do you think he was fairly covered in regard to what we expect from or media?

"No person has ever been imprisoned for Civil Contempt in the UK... not ever"

How about, in recent years,
Universal Business Team PTY Ltd v Lawrence Moffitt
Official Receiver v. Brown
Patel v Patel and others
Or a juror (Fraill) sentenced to eight months in prison for section 8

there's quite a good guie to the contempt issues behind TR here
Original post by Eian01
In today's world its really hard to trust the mainstream media. Media houses are at war in the rage of breaking news, and for getting the maximum viewership news networks at times present manipulate the facts around. Even the big media outlets are ever ready to do overplayed when suits their interest.

I honestly think you have to be a bit more discriminating than that. "Mainstream media" is a catch-all term. Some are better than others. The Sun is not the same as the BBC. The New York Times is not the same as Fox News. You have to make your own decisions about whom you trust.
Reply 73
Avatar for HiViz9
HiViz9
11
Original post by University of Oxford Guest Lecturer
"No person has ever been imprisoned for Civil Contempt in the UK... not ever"

How about, in recent years,
Universal Business Team PTY Ltd v Lawrence Moffitt
Official Receiver v. Brown
Patel v Patel and others
Or a juror (Fraill) sentenced to eight months in prison for section 8

there's quite a good guie to the contempt issues behind TR here


although by virtue of s.258(2) Criminal Justice Act 2003 Mr Brown would need to serve 4 months before being released) and an arrest warrant was issued on 8 November 2017.
Tommy committed CIVIL Contempt. Not criminal contempt. I stated CIVIL CONTEMPT above.
Original post by University of Oxford Guest Lecturer
"No person has ever been imprisoned for Civil Contempt in the UK... not ever"

How about, in recent years,
Universal Business Team PTY Ltd v Lawrence Moffitt
Official Receiver v. Brown
Patel v Patel and others
Or a juror (Fraill) sentenced to eight months in prison for section 8

there's quite a good guie to the contempt issues behind TR here

But no-one has been gaoled for criminal libel and that is the reason for all these chancers with fake news.

Until WWI the deliberate spreaders of lies were regularly gaoled for criminal libel and then we stopped doing it. The reason was a change in the economics of news distribution. From the 17th to the late 19th century news was primarily distributed by individual vendors, who were in many cases men of straw buying and personally reselling newsheets and newspapers. If you wanted to stop lies you had to take action against the men with the presses and they too were men of little substance who were fleet of foot. The way to stop them lying was to put them in Newgate.

That changed with the press barons of the late 19th century but more importantly with the wholesalers; WH Smith and John Menzies. Northcliffe, Rothermere, Astor and the wholesalers were men worth suing and men who did not want to be sued, so they policed the content of what they published. The defamatory, obscene and seditious libellers found no knowing place on WH Smith's shelves.

Finally in 2010 the offence of criminal libel was abolished.

You have two choices to regulate the behaviour of men of no financial substance. You gaol them for their transgressions or you make men with deep pockets answerable for their behaviour. That has been true since William the Conqueror bound men by the frankpledge system. So either you reintroduce offences of spreading false news and revitalise offences of spreading state secrets or you make the Googles and the BTs of this world civilly liable for their wrongdoing.
Reply 75
Avatar for z-hog
z-hog
13
Original post by HiViz9
Lie by omission is still a lie.

That could well make up half of them, there's the example of a heavily slanted anti-Brexit outlet reporting on the number of NHS european workers leaving in a given year and leaving it at that. Job done, Brexit is doing this and it's bad. Boo. That's the news.

They left out the figures for incoming workers, they actually exceeded the numbers departing. It is fair to call it Fake News and yet the MSM seem exempted from much scrutiny. The Government have allocated 20 million of our money to some quango to 'tackle the problem', MPs make grandiose statements on such a problem afflicting us and all we get is some poxy Russian site or something equally irrelevant to anything. The real problem is with the falsehoods pushed by the main media bodies, the ones with the real muscle to affect anything.

What's the best example of Fake News we've had so far in this discussion?
Original post by HiViz9
although by virtue of s.258(2) Criminal Justice Act 2003 Mr Brown would need to serve 4 months before being released) and an arrest warrant was issued on 8 November 2017.
Tommy committed CIVIL Contempt. Not criminal contempt. I stated CIVIL CONTEMPT above.


I think you have no idea of the number of people imprisoned for civil contempt.

3rd October 2019 D Taylor 116 days imprisonment
3rd October 2019 P Sawyers 16 weeks
1st October 2019 N Livesey 4 weeks suspended
23rd September 2019 C Carroll 3 months suspended
23rd September 2019 S Lloyd 8 weeks suspended
23rd September 2019 S Davies 28 days suspended (unclear if criminal contempt)
18th Sepember 2019 E Horner 28 days
18th September 2019 G Elliott 28 days
9th Sepember 2019 G Walton 12 weeks
Original post by University of Oxford Guest Lecturer
Well, there's some truth in that, but it's a bit broadbrush, no? The BBC employs a huge number of journalists and by and large does a decent job. People overwhelmingly trust it against other news providers - like, 57% as against 1% for the Times, or the Telegraph or the FT. see this survey

I agree with you that it has no need to go chasing clicks or going downmarket. We can probably all think of things to criticise about its coverage in recent times. But I don't think it's fair to say it's pandering to entertainment at the expense of truth

I dont think the BBC is any more trustworthy than any of the others in that survey. If i had to take a stab at it, I would say the only reason the BBC scores that highly (assuming 57% trust is really that high) is because its the BBC not because of the content it puts out. Looking at virtually any story run by the BBC shows them to be just as manipulative with the truth as any other news outlet. Its not about the truth any more with any of the news outlets including the BBC, its just about pushing some agenda, smearing the "opposites" who dont agree with said agenda and smearing the individuals who fall into the afforementioned opposites. I agree with ThatOldGuy that its more infotainment now, I would just add that its infotainment targeted to specific ideologies depending on the source. True debate died and with it useful democracy died also, for evidence of this we only need look at the shambles that it our current parliament.

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