'Hundreds' of young trans people are detransitioning (article)
Been years since I made a thread... but this is important to me personally, so I'm not going to wait and see if someone else makes one on the story...
https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-young-trans-people-seeking-help-to-return-to-original-sex-11827740
"The number of young people seeking gender transition is at an all-time high but we hear very little, if anything, about those who may come to regret their decision."
---
As someone who has de-transitioned, and knows plenty of others... its brilliant to see this as the top story on the Sky news website.
I really hope and prey that my fears don't come true, and this doesn't get branded as transphobic and slurred about being offensive by the LGBT campaigners.
Because its a really important thing, and something that isn't transphobic at all. It can be used as a weapon by transphobes to attack transitioning who will use it as evidence that transitioning is a mistake, but its that specific use that should be denounced, not this woman who is trying to set up a support network for people who really really need it.
There are a lot of ex-trans people like myself, who had absolutely no one to talk to when detransitioning.. Serriously, I and many others faced just as hard a time from the LGBT community, as I faced from the striaght-cis community.. For every person who made a bad commnet when I first transitioned, there was an LGBT person who made the same comment in reverse when I went back.. 'you lied to us' 'so you were never really who we thought you were' 'you tricked us' etc.
Its a really hard time for anyone, so I really applaud the work shes doing in creating a network where people can help and support and inform each other. Not to encourage people to detransition, but to support those who are going through it, or have been through it, so they don't end up alone.. having lost their cis/straight support network when they transitioned, and then loosing their lgbt support network as well as when they de-transition.
Its also important for the issue to be visable for people who are questioning their gender identity to be aware that it doesn't always work out.. no one ever said to me that some people de-transition.. not any of the countless professionals and doctors I saw, or any LGBT advocate/individual.. I had no idea that people like me existed, until I detransitioned.
Anyway, I hope it doesn't get dragged through the mud as a transphobic attrocity.. and I wish her all the best.
https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-young-trans-people-seeking-help-to-return-to-original-sex-11827740
"The number of young people seeking gender transition is at an all-time high but we hear very little, if anything, about those who may come to regret their decision."
---
As someone who has de-transitioned, and knows plenty of others... its brilliant to see this as the top story on the Sky news website.
I really hope and prey that my fears don't come true, and this doesn't get branded as transphobic and slurred about being offensive by the LGBT campaigners.
Because its a really important thing, and something that isn't transphobic at all. It can be used as a weapon by transphobes to attack transitioning who will use it as evidence that transitioning is a mistake, but its that specific use that should be denounced, not this woman who is trying to set up a support network for people who really really need it.
There are a lot of ex-trans people like myself, who had absolutely no one to talk to when detransitioning.. Serriously, I and many others faced just as hard a time from the LGBT community, as I faced from the striaght-cis community.. For every person who made a bad commnet when I first transitioned, there was an LGBT person who made the same comment in reverse when I went back.. 'you lied to us' 'so you were never really who we thought you were' 'you tricked us' etc.
Its a really hard time for anyone, so I really applaud the work shes doing in creating a network where people can help and support and inform each other. Not to encourage people to detransition, but to support those who are going through it, or have been through it, so they don't end up alone.. having lost their cis/straight support network when they transitioned, and then loosing their lgbt support network as well as when they de-transition.
Its also important for the issue to be visable for people who are questioning their gender identity to be aware that it doesn't always work out.. no one ever said to me that some people de-transition.. not any of the countless professionals and doctors I saw, or any LGBT advocate/individual.. I had no idea that people like me existed, until I detransitioned.
Anyway, I hope it doesn't get dragged through the mud as a transphobic attrocity.. and I wish her all the best.
Scroll to see replies
Detransitioners absolutely need more support, the problem is that while the detransition rate is a couple of percent at most, they get twisted and used as a weapon by anti-trans groups to suggest that no-one is actually trans (see how subreddits like r/detrans have become a hotbed of TERF talking points). Because of this poisoning of the well by anti-trans groups, LGBTQ rights groups are I think understandably wary of discussion about detransitioning
Interesting topic.
this thread isnt gonna end well...
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Detransitioners absolutely need more support, the problem is that while the detransition rate is a couple of percent at most, they get twisted and used as a weapon by anti-trans groups to suggest that no-one is actually trans (see how subreddits like r/detrans have become a hotbed of TERF talking points). Because of this poisoning of the well by anti-trans groups, LGBTQ rights groups are I think understandably wary of discussion about detransitioning
In what way is ‘de-transitioning’ linked to TEFRFs? I thought their whole bag was “you haven’t lived as a woman therefore you can’t know the difficulty of life as a woman”? (And also rightly pointing out people with XY chromosomes shouldn’t compete in sport against people with XX)
(edited 4 years ago)
The only source for this statistic is a single advocacy group, which was seemingly formed out of thin air in the last week. I'm skeptical to say the least.
what causes people to detransition?
Original post by artful_lounger
The only source for this statistic is a single advocacy group, which was seemingly formed out of thin air in the last week. I'm skeptical to say the least.
skeptical of what? that there are 'hundreds'? There being hundreds, would mean that a very tiny tiny proportion of trans people detransition.
A quick google search estimates there are upwards of 200,000 trans people in the UK, So even at the most conservative estimates, 'hundreds' of trans people would be less than half a single percent of trans people detransitoning.
Is that hard to believe? Its certainly not for me, I know plenty..
As far as the organisation forming out of thin air - that's why its in the news.. because its new. Its origin and reasons for being created are clearly stated in the article, and its certainly not abnormal in being a lgbt support organisation created by an individual from nothing to help others.
Original post by Underscore__
In what way is ‘de-transitioning’ linked to TEFRFs? I thought their whole bag was “you haven’t lived as a woman therefore you can’t know the difficulty of life as a woman”? (And also rightly pointing out people with XY chromosomes shouldn’t compete in sport against people with XX)
XXY chromosomes ?
Original post by Schoolquestions
what causes people to detransition?
Its not sometihng ive studied a lot, but I can tell you the most common reasons that I have heard/scene from others.
Here are a few that I have come across:
1. Transitioning made their lives worse, but didn't decrease their dysphoria/pain. This one tends to be from trans women who can't pass as women, so see a huge decrease in their living standards because of the reaction they face daily.. yet there are things about their body they still can't fix, and actually being a bit female makes them confront their issues daily, whereas ignoring it (repressing) and living as male, gives them a better life, even if its not healthy..
2. Misdiagnosed dyshporia/other mental health issues - this is people who want to be the other sex if they could choose.. but don't actually feel dyshporia or anything similar. They transition because they mis-diagnose other mental health issues (depression often) as being because of their gender.. but then find that when their mental health improves, they may have actually been ok in their previous gender, and should just be a boy-ish girl or a girl-ish boy.
3. Gender indentity is fluid. For some people their gender identity is fluid and changes over time as they get older.. for these people they may experiance their first shift, and transition because of it, only to then find their gender shifting back, and realising that medical intervention may not be the best idea if they are not going to be certain where their gender may go in the future
(I feel very sorry for people in group number 1, because they are not going to have a good time either way, and its ashame they don't live in a society that can accept them, or in a time with the medical advancements to make them what they need to be)
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, but those are the main 3 I have come across.
Original post by fallen_acorns
Its not sometihng ive studied a lot, but I can tell you the most common reasons that I have heard/scene from others.
Here are a few that I have come across:
1. Transitioning made their lives worse, but didn't decrease their dysphoria/pain. This one tends to be from trans women who can't pass as women, so see a huge decrease in their living standards because of the reaction they face daily.. yet there are things about their body they still can't fix, and actually being a bit female makes them confront their issues daily, whereas ignoring it (repressing) and living as male, gives them a better life, even if its not healthy..
2. Misdiagnosed dyshporia/other mental health issues - this is people who want to be the other sex if they could choose.. but don't actually feel dyshporia or anything similar. They transition because they mis-diagnose other mental health issues (depression often) as being because of their gender.. but then find that when their mental health improves, they may have actually been ok in their previous gender, and should just be a boy-ish girl or a girl-ish boy.
3. Gender indentity is fluid. For some people their gender identity is fluid and changes over time as they get older.. for these people they may experiance their first shift, and transition because of it, only to then find their gender shifting back, and realising that medical intervention may not be the best idea if they are not going to be certain where their gender may go in the future
(I feel very sorry for people in group number 1, because they are not going to have a good time either way, and its ashame they don't live in a society that can accept them, or in a time with the medical advancements to make them what they need to be)
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, but those are the main 3 I have come across.
Here are a few that I have come across:
1. Transitioning made their lives worse, but didn't decrease their dysphoria/pain. This one tends to be from trans women who can't pass as women, so see a huge decrease in their living standards because of the reaction they face daily.. yet there are things about their body they still can't fix, and actually being a bit female makes them confront their issues daily, whereas ignoring it (repressing) and living as male, gives them a better life, even if its not healthy..
2. Misdiagnosed dyshporia/other mental health issues - this is people who want to be the other sex if they could choose.. but don't actually feel dyshporia or anything similar. They transition because they mis-diagnose other mental health issues (depression often) as being because of their gender.. but then find that when their mental health improves, they may have actually been ok in their previous gender, and should just be a boy-ish girl or a girl-ish boy.
3. Gender indentity is fluid. For some people their gender identity is fluid and changes over time as they get older.. for these people they may experiance their first shift, and transition because of it, only to then find their gender shifting back, and realising that medical intervention may not be the best idea if they are not going to be certain where their gender may go in the future
(I feel very sorry for people in group number 1, because they are not going to have a good time either way, and its ashame they don't live in a society that can accept them, or in a time with the medical advancements to make them what they need to be)
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, but those are the main 3 I have come across.
this was really informative thanks
I've long felt that our current procedures of surgical and pharmacological 'transitioning' are to the psychopathology of gender-dysphoria as a wooden prosthesis is to an amputated limb: at best a serviceable pantomime of the real-deal, and at worst an elaborate crutch which neglects what caused that limb to become gangrenous in the first place.
Alas, when you only have a hammer, it's all-too tempting to treat screws as if they were nails.
Alas, when you only have a hammer, it's all-too tempting to treat screws as if they were nails.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Underscore__
In what way is ‘de-transitioning’ linked to TEFRFs? I thought their whole bag was “you haven’t lived as a woman therefore you can’t know the difficulty of life as a woman”? (And also rightly pointing out people with XY chromosomes shouldn’t compete in sport against people with XX)
Bold of you to assume they have any consistent belief beyond "trans bad" (serious, even TERF is somewhat of an inaccurate term given it suggests they're feminists, but they'll spew a **** ton of misogyny provided it lets them attack trans people). TERFs get involved with using detransitioners as a weapon against trans people as a whole because they're an incoherent hate movement that will change their position on anything on a whim provided it helps them attack trans people. As I said, r/detrans, nominally a support sub for detransitioners instead spends ages talking about the favoured junk science of TERFs (namely Blanchardianism and ROGD)
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Detransitioners absolutely need more support, the problem is that while the detransition rate is a couple of percent at most, they get twisted and used as a weapon by anti-trans groups to suggest that no-one is actually trans (see how subreddits like r/detrans have become a hotbed of TERF talking points). Because of this poisoning of the well by anti-trans groups, LGBTQ rights groups are I think understandably wary of discussion about detransitioning
de transitions rates are under 1% in adult patient population ( Nottingham GIC research presented at WPATH) and under 4 % in paediatric services (Australian data entered into court as evidence under oath)
Original post by fallen_acorns
Its not sometihng ive studied a lot, but I can tell you the most common reasons that I have heard/scene from others.
Here are a few that I have come across:
1. Transitioning made their lives worse, but didn't decrease their dysphoria/pain. This one tends to be from trans women who can't pass as women, so see a huge decrease in their living standards because of the reaction they face daily.. yet there are things about their body they still can't fix, and actually being a bit female makes them confront their issues daily, whereas ignoring it (repressing) and living as male, gives them a better life, even if its not healthy..
2. Misdiagnosed dyshporia/other mental health issues - this is people who want to be the other sex if they could choose.. but don't actually feel dyshporia or anything similar. They transition because they mis-diagnose other mental health issues (depression often) as being because of their gender.. but then find that when their mental health improves, they may have actually been ok in their previous gender, and should just be a boy-ish girl or a girl-ish boy.
3. Gender indentity is fluid. For some people their gender identity is fluid and changes over time as they get older.. for these people they may experiance their first shift, and transition because of it, only to then find their gender shifting back, and realising that medical intervention may not be the best idea if they are not going to be certain where their gender may go in the future
(I feel very sorry for people in group number 1, because they are not going to have a good time either way, and its ashame they don't live in a society that can accept them, or in a time with the medical advancements to make them what they need to be)
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, but those are the main 3 I have come across.
Here are a few that I have come across:
1. Transitioning made their lives worse, but didn't decrease their dysphoria/pain. This one tends to be from trans women who can't pass as women, so see a huge decrease in their living standards because of the reaction they face daily.. yet there are things about their body they still can't fix, and actually being a bit female makes them confront their issues daily, whereas ignoring it (repressing) and living as male, gives them a better life, even if its not healthy..
2. Misdiagnosed dyshporia/other mental health issues - this is people who want to be the other sex if they could choose.. but don't actually feel dyshporia or anything similar. They transition because they mis-diagnose other mental health issues (depression often) as being because of their gender.. but then find that when their mental health improves, they may have actually been ok in their previous gender, and should just be a boy-ish girl or a girl-ish boy.
3. Gender indentity is fluid. For some people their gender identity is fluid and changes over time as they get older.. for these people they may experiance their first shift, and transition because of it, only to then find their gender shifting back, and realising that medical intervention may not be the best idea if they are not going to be certain where their gender may go in the future
(I feel very sorry for people in group number 1, because they are not going to have a good time either way, and its ashame they don't live in a society that can accept them, or in a time with the medical advancements to make them what they need to be)
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, but those are the main 3 I have come across.
1. is the impact of others on the individual , ironically made worse by the concern trolling !
2. little or no evidence that this group of people exist outside the fevered minds of TERFs , especially political lesbians
3. only really one documented case of that ( hashimi - Kane ^3) - and in part there is a degree of 1 in there
Original post by Profesh
I've long felt that our current procedures of surgical and pharmacological 'transitioning' are to the psychopathology of gender-dysphoria as a wooden prosthesis is to an amputated limb: at best a serviceable pantomime of the real-deal, and at worst an elaborate crutch which neglects what caused that limb to become gangrenous in the first place.
Alas, when you only have a hammer, it's all-too tempting to treat screws as if they were nails.
Alas, when you only have a hammer, it's all-too tempting to treat screws as if they were nails.
there is no 'psychiatric pathology' to beign trans
if you want to place a pathology it;s endocrine , not psychiatric
wtf is detransitioning? If I "detransition" from my gender that I was born with, what does that make me? A prokaryote cell? What if you retransition? How often are you allowed to retransition and then detransition back again? Where do you draw the line? What if I get a concussion and forget which gender I am? See what happens when we introduce actual logic and proof/deduction?
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by InArduisFouette
de transitions rates are under 1% in adult patient population ( Nottingham GIC research presented at WPATH) and under 4 % in paediatric services (Australian data entered into court as evidence under oath)
In adult population of trans people ?
Original post by fallen_acorns
Its not sometihng ive studied a lot, but I can tell you the most common reasons that I have heard/scene from others.
Here are a few that I have come across:
1. Transitioning made their lives worse, but didn't decrease their dysphoria/pain. This one tends to be from trans women who can't pass as women, so see a huge decrease in their living standards because of the reaction they face daily.. yet there are things about their body they still can't fix, and actually being a bit female makes them confront their issues daily, whereas ignoring it (repressing) and living as male, gives them a better life, even if its not healthy..
2. Misdiagnosed dyshporia/other mental health issues - this is people who want to be the other sex if they could choose.. but don't actually feel dyshporia or anything similar. They transition because they mis-diagnose other mental health issues (depression often) as being because of their gender.. but then find that when their mental health improves, they may have actually been ok in their previous gender, and should just be a boy-ish girl or a girl-ish boy.
3. Gender indentity is fluid. For some people their gender identity is fluid and changes over time as they get older.. for these people they may experiance their first shift, and transition because of it, only to then find their gender shifting back, and realising that medical intervention may not be the best idea if they are not going to be certain where their gender may go in the future
(I feel very sorry for people in group number 1, because they are not going to have a good time either way, and its ashame they don't live in a society that can accept them, or in a time with the medical advancements to make them what they need to be)
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, but those are the main 3 I have come across.
Here are a few that I have come across:
1. Transitioning made their lives worse, but didn't decrease their dysphoria/pain. This one tends to be from trans women who can't pass as women, so see a huge decrease in their living standards because of the reaction they face daily.. yet there are things about their body they still can't fix, and actually being a bit female makes them confront their issues daily, whereas ignoring it (repressing) and living as male, gives them a better life, even if its not healthy..
2. Misdiagnosed dyshporia/other mental health issues - this is people who want to be the other sex if they could choose.. but don't actually feel dyshporia or anything similar. They transition because they mis-diagnose other mental health issues (depression often) as being because of their gender.. but then find that when their mental health improves, they may have actually been ok in their previous gender, and should just be a boy-ish girl or a girl-ish boy.
3. Gender indentity is fluid. For some people their gender identity is fluid and changes over time as they get older.. for these people they may experiance their first shift, and transition because of it, only to then find their gender shifting back, and realising that medical intervention may not be the best idea if they are not going to be certain where their gender may go in the future
(I feel very sorry for people in group number 1, because they are not going to have a good time either way, and its ashame they don't live in a society that can accept them, or in a time with the medical advancements to make them what they need to be)
I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons, but those are the main 3 I have come across.
I recall an op-ed by Milo Yiannopoulos (of all people) in which he observed that while we've reason enough to recognise gender-dysphoria as a bona fide phenomenon there is also evidence that those who undergo reassignment may no more accept the end result as 'correct' than do the public at large, and that a politically-motivated carte blanche policy of simply giving such people what they ostensibly want without fully understanding their condition—a condition which remains ripe for misdiagnosis—is not only medically unethical, but socially irresponsible.
Original post by InArduisFouette
there is no 'psychiatric pathology' to beign trans
if you want to place a pathology it;s endocrine , not psychiatric
if you want to place a pathology it;s endocrine , not psychiatric
You believe it's impossible for one to perceive a discrepancy between one's gender—which is constructed psychologically—and one's sex as a result of psychological factors?
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