Should referendum results be honoured? Watch

QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#21
Report 2 weeks ago
#21
(Original post by ColinDent)
You seem to be under the dilusion that when people voted to leave they really meant remain under the rule of the EU.
No, merely pointing out that "Leave" contains fundamentally opposed groups. There are people who voted Leave who would rather Remain than Leave with No Deal and Boris & Mogg at the helm.
The UK was never "under the rule of the EU", so now I also need to point out that (like many Leavers) you don't understand the basic issues.
Plus, you seem to be under the illusion that delusion is spelled "dilusion".
0
reply
JanusGodofDoors
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#22
Report 2 weeks ago
#22
In order for its result to be legitimate, a referendum should have to clearly explain what the result will entail, what steps should be taken to implement it, what the size of the majority will mean, and if it is still valid if large numbers of people do not vote. A referendum is also invalid if the situation changes, or if new information comes to light. In this case, a further referendum should be held to ensure that the people have not changed their mind, rather like a pop up on a computer-screen asks you to confirm if you want to proceed with doing something like deleting your account (which feels like a metaphor for Brexit now I think about it).
0
reply
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#23
Report 2 weeks ago
#23
(Original post by Physics Enemy)
First referendum was remain or leave, any subsequent vote should decide the type of leave, not re-introduce the losing option (remain).
If that were the case, if the total vote was less than half the electorate, the result would be void and a new ref including a Remain option would have to be run.

I agree that 1) referendums should be legally binding
But at present they are not (unless specifically legislated for).

2) 'leave' should've been more detailed at the outset - saving years of planning, dithering, debate.
So the government should have negotiated a binding deal and had it approved in parliament before the referendum. I agree. Do you think the government would have been able to do that?
0
reply
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#24
Report 2 weeks ago
#24
(Original post by crysaltytears)
Except those who want a second referendum wants to stack it in favour of remain by doing 1 of 2 things:

1) exclude No Deal from the ballot, the single most popular choice in the general population
2) insist on revoking Article 50 to remain even if the Leave vote is split and Remain gets less than 50% in a three way vote.
It is impossible to have a valid referendum in EU membership without including a Remain option, especially as all research now shows a majority in favour of Remain. The only option would be to have some kind of decision on what specific sort of Brexit goes on the ballot paper.

I therefore regard any further referendums on this issue unless the first one has been carried out to be illegitimate.
Wait? If you are the King of Referendums, why didn't you come out and make a ruling earlier. You could have saved everyone 3 years of wasted time.
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#25
Report 2 weeks ago
#25
(Original post by HiViz9)
Given that the losers will obviously feel aggrieved. Is it not the case that some win and some lose which means you enter the realm of this democratic process in full acceptance of honouring the result: win or lose?
Let me ask you this question.

In 2004 Turkish Northern Cyprus voted in a Referendum for re-unification with the Greek south.

Should that Referendum result be honoured?

There is only one problem. The Greek Cypriots also voted in a Referendum not to have them back.

The similarities will Brexit are these. Most Brexit voters voted for Brexit on the basis of terms that either aren't available from Brussels or which a sufficient number of British Brexiteers won't agree to, so that there is no overall majority for those terms. How do you deliver a Brexit tha isn't available and why do you presume that people who voted for an unavailable Brexit would back an available one?
Last edited by nulli tertius; 2 weeks ago
0
reply
HiViz9
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#26
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#26
(Original post by QE2)
Please explain which parts of my post are untrue.
Like many Leavers, you don't really seem to understand what is going on.
Thats OK. I dont mind if you think that way. I just seem to recall we had a referendum. Thats all.
0
reply
HiViz9
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#27
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#27
(Original post by nulli tertius)
Let me ask you this question.

In 2004 Turkish Northern Cyprus voted in a Referendum for re-unification with the Greek south.

Should that Referendum result be honoured?

There is only one problem. The Greek Cypriots also voted in a Referendum not to have them back.

The similarities will Brexit are these. Most Brexit voters voted for Brexit on the basis of terms that either aren't available from Brussels or which a sufficient number of British Brexiteers won't agree to, so that there is no overall majority for those terms. How do you deliver a Brexit tha isn't available and why do you presume that people who voted for an unavailable Brexit would back an available one?
You are not making sense. Our government, which was voted on that very mandate, gave us the option to vote IN or OUT of the EU via referendum. The people voted in the Tory government.. Cameron... on his manifesto pledge. He won. Hw honored the election commitment.. to set a date in 2016 for an IN ... OUT referendum. That is a fact. Turkey controls Northern Cyprus. Greece controls Southern Cyprus. Katalaveno??
Every single debate, discussion, phone-in, audience participation, all the leaders of all political parties took part and thousands of members of the public and TV/Radio presenters asked thousands of questions on every aspect of IN or OUT of the EU. Immigration was first, Sovereignty was second, Rule of Law was third, the economy was fourth. This was over weeks and hours of TV .. Radio.. Newspaper media. ITS ALL STILL ON YOUTUBE. So every person was fully informed. Cameron sent a leaflet to every single home in the UK clearly stating this will be an IN - OUT Vote no second referendum..if the people vote OUT we will get out....if the people vote IN we will stay in.
The problem is the people voted to LEAVE... get OUT. The remainers never, ever not ever, anticipated losing the vote and it is this loss that depresses them. Nothing to do with the honor of referendums, they simply can not accept they lost. I vote leave and I never expected to win. Yippeeee. I won. I respect democracy. If I lost I would still respect democracy.
0
reply
Rossagle
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#28
Report 2 weeks ago
#28
Should referendum results be honoured?

What if we expanded this question:

Should referendum results be honoured if a very significant amount of the voters had no idea what they were actually voting for and were misinformed about what the consequences of the results would be?

Technically, the referendum does not have to be honoured and following it for the sake of 'democracy' serves no purpose when so many people have said they would vote otherwise now they understand the situation better.
2
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#29
Report 2 weeks ago
#29
(Original post by QE2)
No, merely pointing out that "Leave" contains fundamentally opposed groups. There are people who voted Leave who would rather Remain than Leave with No Deal and Boris & Mogg at the helm.
The UK was never "under the rule of the EU", so now I also need to point out that (like many Leavers) you don't understand the basic issues.
Plus, you seem to be under the illusion that delusion is spelled "dilusion".
Well seeing as we're being pedantic then you seem to be under the illusion that we are in the USA as over here it's spelt not "spelled" .
That's the problem with pedantry, it tends to come back around.
1
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#30
Report 2 weeks ago
#30
(Original post by Napp)
As opposed to crypto-fascists and racists? I mean the fact a the person who assassinated an MP was a brexstremist and another one who plotted a similar murder was speaks volumes.
Dont over use facist and racist, what you are doing is trivialising real prejudice
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#31
Report 2 weeks ago
#31
(Original post by ColinDent)
Well seeing as we're being pedantic then you seem to be under the illusion that we are in the USA as over here it's spelt not "spelled" .
That's the problem with pedantry, it tends to come back around.
Please rep someone else bang on
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#32
Report 2 weeks ago
#32
(Original post by QE2)
I don't think referendums should held in the first place. The people are mostly idiots.
:adore: what a way to generalise the population of the world :rolleyes:
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#33
Report 2 weeks ago
#33
(Original post by 999tigger)
Referendums are advisory only.
The referendum was flawed as there were a number of interpretations about what leaving meant.
Because of this flaw the majority of MPs believe leave meant with a deal.


A general election will give people to express their voice again with a better knowledge of the facts. Presumably a party that gets a majority will find it easier to get through parliament and make things happen.

Not as though there have been many Brexit threads on TSR, well done for originality.
The referendum was not legally binding. The European Union Referendum Act 2015 didn’t say anything about implementing the result of the vote. It just provided that there should be one, however this is where you seized to be correct.

In other countries, referendums are often legally binding—for example, because the vote is on whether to amend the constitution. The UK, famously, doesn’t have a codified constitution. A UK referendum will only have the force of law if the Act setting it up says so. In practical terms this would mean someone would be able to go to court to make the government implement the result. The Alternative Vote referendum in 2011, for example, was legally binding in this way.

Otherwise, as the High Court put it:

“a referendum on any topic can only be advisory for the lawmakers in Parliament”.

So, purely as a matter of law, neither the government nor Parliament has to do anything about the referendum. However the referendum result was not legally binding; however, it was widely accepted that the vote would be politically binding on future Westminster Parliaments.

Its unfortunate that some people who oppose Brexit take the argument a step further, lots of examples are available on this forum, however facebook is littered with images highlighting the non-binding nature of the vote.

I do agree with you regarding a General election, unfortunately remainer parliamentarians are fearful of the imminent blood bath that awaits them at the polls.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 2 weeks ago
0
reply
Vinny C
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#34
Report 2 weeks ago
#34
Depends if the referendum delivers the product promised. Tick here for pastures of sunny delight... they must be stuck in the post!
0
reply
HiViz9
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#35
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#35
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Dont over use facist and racist, what you are doing is trivialising real prejudice
You should not tell others how to think and speak. You have no right. You dont seem to answer the salient points. Fascists tell people how to think and speak.
0
reply
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#36
Report 2 weeks ago
#36
(Original post by ColinDent)
Well seeing as we're being pedantic then you seem to be under the illusion that we are in the USA as over here it's spelt not "spelled" .
That's the problem with pedantry, it tends to come back around.
Either is correct English, wherever you are. You weren't being pedantic, you were just being wrong.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#37
Report 2 weeks ago
#37
(Original post by QE2)
No, merely pointing out that "Leave" contains fundamentally opposed groups. There are people who voted Leave who would rather Remain than Leave with No Deal and Boris & Mogg at the helm.
The UK was never "under the rule of the EU", so now I also need to point out that (like many Leavers) you don't understand the basic issues.
Plus, you seem to be under the illusion that delusion is spelled "dilusion".
The UK is under the rule of EU law and we have been here before, I've unequivocally proved this to you and you agreed. Why peddle the same lie you know to be false, just because you are talking to someone else.

I educated you, you reluctantly agreed after calling me a fool, idoit, xenophobic and a whole host of other insults after about 10 tennis like posts, the penny dropped and you realised what I said to be true.

It you that does not understand the basic issues. The European Communities Act, passed by Parliament in 1972, accepted the supremacy of EU law - ipso facto
0
reply
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#38
Report 2 weeks ago
#38
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Please rep someone else bang on
Love that you made a point of repping someone that was wrong. Is Colin your girlfriend?
0
reply
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#39
Report 2 weeks ago
#39
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
:adore: what a way to generalise the population of the world :rolleyes:
I was talking about the UK, you person - but the same principle applies worldwide. Most people are idiots, either by design or by accident.

See, the thing is, generalisation is not, in and of itself, necessarily wrong or fallacious. It is often correct or appropriate.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#40
Report 2 weeks ago
#40
(Original post by crysaltytears)
Except those who want a second referendum wants to stack it in favour of remain by doing 1 of 2 things:

1) exclude No Deal from the ballot, the single most popular choice in the general population
2) insist on revoking Article 50 to remain even if the Leave vote is split and Remain gets less than 50% in a three way vote.

I therefore regard any further referendums on this issue unless the first one has been carried out to be illegitimate.
Here lies the issue, the extremist ends of the argument dont seem on the whole to be interestested in what's best for the country. Unfortunately they are just interested in getting their own way, this could bring the counties democracy down if we dont get a grip soon.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Would you turn to a teacher if you were being bullied?

Yes (65)
23.3%
No (214)
76.7%

Watched Threads

View All