UK pathetically weak when dealing with the US

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Fullofsurprises
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The killing of the young motorcyclist in Oxfordshire by the wife of a CIA operative on a US airbase, who then fled to America with the connivance of the US Embassy and government, has highlighted yet again just how weak and helpless Britain is in dealing with the superpower.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...thorities.html

To take just a few points:

- Diplomatic immunity is often waived by host countries in such cases, including by Britain. The US simply refuses.

- Her status is unclear and she very likely wasn't covered by immunity, something that could have been tested in a British court.

- Dominic Raab, the Tory Foreign Secretary, was only reluctantly granted a conversation about it with the US Secretary of State, who then flatly refused to help. Raab has been rude and cold towards the family of the deceased and has parroted the American line on the immunity, without challenge.

How on earth can the UK hope to gain preferential trade terms post-Brexit with a country that behaves in this way? We are like rabbits caught in the headlights.
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Napp
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Alas this is hardly news. Our 'leaders' have always been not but cuckolds to Washington.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Napp)
Alas this is hardly news. Our 'leaders' have always been not but cuckolds to Washington.
It's a current reiteration of an ancient theme.

Pretty disgraceful all the same, not least the pathetically obvious toadying of a Tory government now hopelessly dependent on crumbs dropped from Trump's decidedly wobbly breakfast table.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The killing of the young motorcyclist in Oxfordshire by the wife of a CIA operative on a US airbase, who then fled to America with the connivance of the US Embassy and government, has highlighted yet again just how weak and helpless Britain is in dealing with the superpower.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...thorities.html

To take just a few points:

- Diplomatic immunity is often waived by host countries in such cases, including by Britain. The US simply refuses.

- Her status is unclear and she very likely wasn't covered by immunity, something that could have been tested in a British court.

- Dominic Raab, the Tory Foreign Secretary, was only reluctantly granted a conversation about it with the US Secretary of State, who then flatly refused to help. Raab has been rude and cold towards the family of the deceased and has parroted the American line on the immunity, without challenge.

How on earth can the UK hope to gain preferential trade terms post-Brexit with a country that behaves in this way? We are like rabbits caught in the headlights.
You think we're the only ones?

This is an age old problem with the US. It has nothing to do with the strength or otherwise of another country.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Drewski)
You think we're the only ones?

This is an age old problem with the US. It has nothing to do with the strength or otherwise of another country.
No, I don't think we're the only one. However we could unite in a little-known continental grouping based on equal and shared sovereignty, which offers some viable counterweight to the arrogance of power.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Drewski)
Oh bore off.

Don't you dare use the death of a young man to further your own petty political point scoring, you abhorrent excuse for a human.

You don't give a flying **** about the guy, you just want to point and laugh.

Delete this thread. You're exposing yourself as nothing more than a tabloid bully.
I do care, I've read all about it and I really feel for his parents.

I'm pointing out the absurdity of thinking we can approach the US as partners in trade on fair terms, when this arrogant domination psychology is in fact the norm.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I do care, I've read all about it and I really feel for his parents.

I'm pointing out the absurdity of thinking we can approach the US as partners in trade on fair terms, when this arrogant domination psychology is in fact the norm.
Playing politics with this is childish, rude and deeply disrespectful. You should know better.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Drewski)
Playing politics with this is childish, rude and deeply disrespectful. You should know better.
I'm really not. I'm publicly discussing a deeply serious issue. I was quoting Harry Dunn's parents when I talked about Raab's conduct.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-anne-sacoolas
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999tigger
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The killing of the young motorcyclist in Oxfordshire by the wife of a CIA operative on a US airbase, who then fled to America with the connivance of the US Embassy and government, has highlighted yet again just how weak and helpless Britain is in dealing with the superpower.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...thorities.html

To take just a few points:

- Diplomatic immunity is often waived by host countries in such cases, including by Britain. The US simply refuses.

- Her status is unclear and she very likely wasn't covered by immunity, something that could have been tested in a British court.

- Dominic Raab, the Tory Foreign Secretary, was only reluctantly granted a conversation about it with the US Secretary of State, who then flatly refused to help. Raab has been rude and cold towards the family of the deceased and has parroted the American line on the immunity, without challenge.

How on earth can the UK hope to gain preferential trade terms post-Brexit with a country that behaves in this way? We are like rabbits caught in the headlights.
1. It isnt often waived, but can be.
2. Unfortunately this is international law and an ally plus a superpower. If we tried her in absence and the immunity was found not to be valid, then it wouldnt achieve anything. US will simply refuse and then withdraw various bits of co operation which will damage the country.
3. I think it is wrong, but US is looking at wider aspects for protection of its diplomats all over the world. It does not wish to set a precedence.
4. What do you expect the UK to do? Declare war? Eject or imprison US citizens? Impose sanctions?
5. Are you a UK national?
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the beer
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(Original post by Drewski)
Oh bore off.

Don't you dare use the death of a young man to further your own petty political point scoring, you abhorrent excuse for a human.

You don't give a flying **** about the guy, you just want to point and laugh.

Delete this thread. You're exposing yourself as nothing more than a tabloid bully.
Are you ok mate?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by 999tigger)
1. It isnt often waived, but can be.
2. Unfortunately this is international law and an ally plus a superpower. If we tried her in absence and the immunity was found not to be valid, then it wouldnt achieve anything. US will simply refuse and then withdraw various bits of co operation which will damage the country.
3. I think it is wrong, but US is looking at wider aspects for protection of its diplomats all over the world. It does not wish to set a precedence.
4. What do you expect the UK to do? Declare war? Eject or imprison US citizens? Impose sanctions?
5. Are you a UK national?
The US could waive it without setting any global precedents whatever, other than in being deluged with requests due to the repeated misbehaviour of their staff overseas.

I expect the UK government to act like a government and stop bending the knee and bowing and scraping and licking up crumbs when an issue as serious as this comes up. Why are they having to do so? Because of the Brexit they themselves induced on a promise that life would be better under the Americans. Well here we are.

Your last question is irrelevant, but for what it's worth, I have dual US/UK citizenship. I was born in the UK but have an American parent.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I expect the UK government to act like a government and stop bending the knee and bowing and scraping and licking up crumbs when an issue as serious as this comes up.
Empty words. A meaningless statement.

What should they actually do? Invade the US and kidnap the citizen?

You're really good at *****ing about other people's lack of decisions, how about you come up with an idea for a change?
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Andrew97
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Let’s not use the death of somebody to further our own political aims.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Drewski)
Empty words. A meaningless statement.

What should they actually do? Invade the US and kidnap the citizen?

You're really good at *****ing about other people's lack of decisions, how about you come up with an idea for a change?
Be at minimum firm and persistent lobbyists for it, publicly stating that they want it to be waived and yes, if necessary, threatening to retaliate in various ways (I wouldn't go for hostage taking, we're not Iran) such as trading issues, purchases of very expensive US weaponry we don't need or want, etc. I would want to reverse the strange deal that claims that someone married to a spy on that base in the countryside has diplomatic immunity. I would question why that deal was done. I would want to warn local people near any US base about the behaviour of the people who work there and their immunity to commit any criminal act they choose. I would want police active surveillance of the exits of such bases and routine stops of all outbound and inbound traffic to determine, for example, if the drivers are drunk or taking drugs.

More importantly than these though, I would be pressing the international community to re-pressure the US to join the international justice system, such as the International Criminal Court, participation in the European Arrest Warrant scheme and so on.

It's worth noting that in the EU, this would of course be no issue at all. The woman would be under arrest and facing whatever charges she fled from.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Andrew97)
Let’s not use the death of somebody to further our own political aims.
Actually it's at critical times of great distress that politics should come to the fore and is most tested.
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It's worth noting that in the EU, this would of course be no issue at all. The woman would be under arrest and facing whatever charges she fled from.
Utter *******s. Simply untrue. The actions of the US would be identical.
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the beer
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(Original post by Drewski)
Utter *******s. Simply untrue. The actions of the US would be identical and if you really think differently you need your head looking at.
I think you should probably take a break chap.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Drewski)
Utter *******s. Simply untrue. The actions of the US would be identical and if you really think differently you need your head looking at.
There's no way an EU diplomatically protected person working in the UK would not have their immunity waived after such an incident as part of EU confraternity.

Here are the details for a typical recent year. There were no EU diplomats committing offences here where it was not waived.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...12-18/HCWS1197
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
There's no way an EU diplomatically protected person working in the UK would not have their immunity waived after such an incident as part of EU confraternity.

Here are the details for a typical recent year. There were no EU diplomats committing offences here where it was not waived.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...12-18/HCWS1197
Then you're talking about something different. Your original statement made it appear like you believed a US citizen in the EU would be treated differently.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Drewski)
Then you're talking about something different. Your original statement made it appear like you believed a US citizen in the EU would be treated differently.
I'm sorry if I wasn't completely clear. I meant that an EU diplomat committing an offence in another EU country (and in many other parts of the world, incidentally) would be treated differently by their parent government than a US diplomat committing crimes is treated by the US government.
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