Why are debates about systems of oppression still dominated by white males? Watch

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mykels
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#61
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because no one trusts any one..its always been white in america have been run by whites so wites are predominate until things change by union support..git s grip
I am white but feel all should be equal in proof of union not domination
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mgi
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(Original post by josh75)
not getting an oscar is not oppression. The academy is a known nepotist and elitist entity, its not about being white its about nepotism. If you also notice the academy is also really reluctant to give oscars out to popular movies like marvel movies as well. The Oscars are just elitist.
No. It is not just elitist it is a racist structure as well. Elitism does not explain, for example, the grossly disproportionate number of Oscar awards given to white people compared to black people. And racism can definitely be a form of oppression.
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Vinny C
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We hate whites as much as we hate bosses. It does however need people good at making money to plough it back in. The USA... loads of white guys. Africa.. loads of poor guys! USA before white guys.. even poorer guys. See a connection?
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Ragman75
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(Original post by mgi)
No. It is not just elitist it is a racist structure as well. Elitism does not explain, for example, the grossly disproportionate number of Oscar awards given to white people compared to black people. And racism can definitely be a form of oppression.
No it is just elitism because the movies that appeal to the upper classes are the only ones that get nominated and the whole process is basically controlled by the big businesses and investors behind the films because having an awards for your movie helps you make more money in the future. You don't see a lot of black actors wining for the same reason you don't see a lot of comedy actors wining, they give the awards to the movies that appeal to rich white people. And even if it was all racism, thats the acting industry the whole industry is based on movies that are going to appeal to the most people which in this country are white. You go to Nigeria and you see bias against white people, because they want movies to appeal to the bigest demographic who are black.
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mgi
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(Original post by josh75)
No it is just elitism because the movies that appeal to the upper classes are the only ones that get nominated and the whole process is basically controlled by the big businesses and investors behind the films because having an awards for your movie helps you make more money in the future. You don't see a lot of black actors wining for the same reason you don't see a lot of comedy actors wining, they give the awards to the movies that appeal to rich white people. And even if it was all racism, thats the acting industry the whole industry is based on movies that are going to appeal to the most people which in this country are white. You go to Nigeria and you see bias against white people, because they want movies to appeal to the bigest demographic who are black.
You appear to be missing my point somewhat: High quality films are made all over the world! Why then do most hollywood Oscars go to white people? And why are you able to aregue that somehow this is due to elitism or a wealthy audience?? but definitely not to do with racism? Notice the phrase that you use: "they give the awards to the movies that appeal to rich white people". Why? The awarding body claim that the awards given for quality! People make movies about all sorts of topics which are nothing to do with having a rich audience. In a multiracial film industry such as the American one or the African one, , why is it that awards are disproportionately given to white people in the Oscars?. The key word here is " disproportionate ". It is , i would suggest to you, to do with white bias against black artists, including comedians. Have you been to Nigeria? Your analysis of racism ignores that racism is a STRUCTURE which, if you are honest, is built based on white privilege and erroneous ideas about supremacy! Nigeria is not built on this idea! There are so many facets of racism that could be discussed if white people would stop defending white people they sometimes don't even know, from charges of ,usually, overt racism. For example, throwing bananas at black footballers is overt racism but the alnost complete absence of black football managers in the football league is due to a covert racism structure. Why do white people seem to so quickly reject the idea that racism or a racism structure does exist? what about the rather obvious data analysis and a more grown up less defensive conversation about racism? we don't have these convos enough to perhaps see that a "white privilege/fragility" racism construct actually unfairly benefits "nice" white people and "bad" white people and they have a wide variety of ways of defending against or not taking seriously, any suggestions of racism.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by mgi)
You appear to be missing my point somewhat: High quality films are made all over the world! Why then do most hollywood Oscars go to white people? And why are you able to aregue that somehow this is due to elitism or a wealthy audience?? but definitely not to do with racism? Notice the phrase that you use: "they give the awards to the movies that appeal to rich white people". Why? The awarding body claim that the awards given for quality! People make movies about all sorts of topics which are nothing to do with having a rich audience. In a multiracial film industry such as the American one or the African one, , why is it that awards are disproportionately given to white people in the Oscars?. The key word here is " disproportionate ". It is , i would suggest to you, to do with white bias against black artists, including comedians. Have you been to Nigeria? Your analysis of racism ignores that racism is a STRUCTURE which, if you are honest, is built based on white privilege and erroneous ideas about supremacy! Nigeria is not built on this idea! There are so many facets of racism that could be discussed if white people would stop defending white people they sometimes don't even know, from charges of ,usually, overt racism. For example, throwing bananas at black footballers is overt racism but the alnost complete absence of black football managers in the football league is due to a covert racism structure. Why do white people seem to so quickly reject the idea that racism or a racism structure does exist? what about the rather obvious data analysis and a more grown up less defensive conversation about racism? we don't have these convos enough to perhaps see that a "white privilege/fragility" racism construct actually unfairly benefits "nice" white people and "bad" white people and they have a wide variety of ways of defending against or not taking seriously, any suggestions of racism.
The Oscars are an award from an American institution, hence most of the films they put forward for awards are English speaking films. What foreign language films have been well received by western media but snubbed by the Oscars?

With regard to black Premier League managers, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Which black managers are not currently managing in the Premier League that should be?

People reject the idea of ‘racist structures’ existing because there’s a lack of evidence to suggest that’s the case.
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username5021906
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I've been on this forum 15 minutes and there are around 3-4 threads on here I've seen which are attacking "white people". The truth is many ethnic minorities enjoy victimising themselves and as a result resort to blaming "the white man" for their issues when actually there are deeply rooted problems within their own communities. You've been given the opportunity to come to this country and better your life but instead you're upset that you couldn't fulfil your dreams because of the "white man" well suck a bullet and wake up because the reason you didn't achieve your goal was because you simply weren't good enough and you thought you could achieve anything not the bloody "white man".
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mgi
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(Original post by Underscore__)
The Oscars are an award from an American institution, hence most of the films they put forward for awards are English speaking films. What foreign language films have been well received by western media but snubbed by the Oscars?

With regard to black Premier League managers, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Which black managers are not currently managing in the Premier League that should be?

People reject the idea of ‘racist structures’ existing because there’s a lack of evidence to suggest that’s the case.
Again you are missing my point- perhaps on purpose,? The Oscars are not simply for the digestion of Western audiences are they? And films do have translated subtitles - didn't you notice?Also, your comment:"With regard to black Premier League managers, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Which black managers are not currently managing in the Premier League that should be?" is frankly ridiculous! It is a well documented fact that more former black professional footballers would like to get football management! Are you trying, by your strange question, implying that there aren't any good enough or available? Absurd! Also your comment : "People reject the idea of ‘racist structures’ existing because there’s a lack of evidence to suggest that’s the case." is even more ridiculous! What "people" are you talking about? head in the sand, defensive, in denial white people? There is so much evidence of more subtle racism all across UK society. This fact makes a lot of white people uncomfortable or defensive. Why? there are quite a number of possible reasons that can be seen time and time again: White privilege is built into a variety of areas such as housing, education, employment sport, health care finance....and it makes a lot of whites uncomfortable or defensive because they benefit unfairly from it! Therefore, they, like you, go into a completely unacademic, none data supported,denial of the obvious! What always intrigues me is why so many white people seem to subtly try to deny the obvious. Why is ,apparently , it seems is it that if one white person or a group or an institution of white persins is crticised regarding racism another random white person who does not even know the people still ,vouches for the innocence of all the parties! It is quite bizzarre and again ,is to do with the very interesting topic of " white fragility/privilege" which some eminent white scholars and others have written about in detail! You need to read about this stuff because you are not well informed!
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mgi
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(Original post by username5021906)
I've been on this forum 15 minutes and there are around 3-4 threads on here I've seen which are attacking "white people". The truth is many ethnic minorities enjoy victimising themselves and as a result resort to blaming "the white man" for their issues when actually there are deeply rooted problems within their own communities. You've been given the opportunity to come to this country and better your life but instead you're upset that you couldn't fulfil your dreams because of the "white man" well suck a bullet and wake up because the reason you didn't achieve your goal was because you simply weren't good enough and you thought you could achieve anything not the bloody "white man".
Oh dear. Here we go again. Another defensive in denial poster who simply ignores all the considerable evidence regarding white privilege and racism written over many years. Instead you come up a collection of absurd statements about " white people being attacked". You stupid suggestion in your really strange analysis of race relationships claims that ethnic minority "victims" "enjoy victimising themselves and as a result resort to blaming "the white man" for their issues when actually there are deeply rooted problems within their own communities". Do you not see how ridiculous you are being. Why deny race inequalities? So you deny that throwing bananas at black footballers only is black players acting as " victims" when they complain rather than the fault of white racists? What can one say about your comment"You've been given the opportunity to come to this country and better your life " ..actually many ethnic minorities were born in the UK" so don't bother to tell them this bulls..t! And what about your further comments.."but instead you're upset that you couldn't fulfil your dreams " Wow- so you think that ethnic monirities don't achieve their dreams and if they did they would not complain about racism? how ridiculous? "because of the "white man" ?? did anyone actually verbally abuse the "white man" on these threads or are you just in denial" Finally your "you simply weren't good enough" comment. You need to wake up ,look around at the range of white people who are incompetent and in good jobs. You are not suggesting the data we have on race issues tells you that "whites are good enough"? they just benefit from a racially constructed system that favours whites. It is obvious , admit it.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by mgi)
Again you are missing my point- perhaps on purpose,? The Oscars are not simply for the digestion of Western audiences are they? And films do have translated subtitles - didn't you notice?
For films to be eligible they have to be for the digestion of western audiences as they need to, among other things, be released:
1. for paid admission in a commercial motion picture theater in Los Angeles County,
2. for a theatrical qualifying run of at least seven consecutive days, during which period screenings must occur at least three times daily, with at least one screening beginning between 6 p.m. and 10 p.m. daily.

Films that meet these requirements tend to be in English.

I also asked you for a specific example of a film that was well received among western critics that wasn't at least nominated for an Oscar.

You're somehow connecting this racism; a lack of foreign films means the Oscar judges are racist, but you can't read their minds.

(Original post by mgi)
Also, your comment:"With regard to black Premier League managers, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Which black managers are not currently managing in the Premier League that should be?" is frankly ridiculous! It is a well documented fact that more former black professional footballers would like to get football management! Are you trying, by your strange question, implying that there aren't any good enough or available? Absurd!
If it's so well documented why didn't you answer my very straightforward question, which black manager is not currently managing in the Premier League that should be?

Also you're again connecting this to racism without evidence. You can't just say that because there are no black managers in the Premier League it must be due to racism.

(Original post by mgi)
Also your comment : "People reject the idea of ‘racist structures’ existing because there’s a lack of evidence to suggest that’s the case." is even more ridiculous! What "people" are you talking about? head in the sand, defensive, in denial white people? There is so much evidence of more subtle racism all across UK society.
Such as?

(Original post by mgi)
This fact makes a lot of white people uncomfortable or defensive. Why? there are quite a number of possible reasons that can be seen time and time again: White privilege is built into a variety of areas such as housing, education, employment sport, health care finance....and it makes a lot of whites uncomfortable or defensive because they benefit unfairly from it!
As above, examples please.

(Original post by mgi)
Therefore, they, like you, go into a completely unacademic, none data supported,denial of the obvious!
Well seeing as your position is apparently so well supported by data why don't you provide some

(Original post by mgi)
What always intrigues me is why so many white people seem to subtly try to deny the obvious. Why is ,apparently , it seems is it that if one white person or a group or an institution of white persins is crticised regarding racism another random white person who does not even know the people still ,vouches for the innocence of all the parties!
I haven't vouched for anyone, I've just said you haven't provided sufficient evidence to support your claims.

(Original post by mgi)
It is quite bizzarre and again ,is to do with the very interesting topic of " white fragility/privilege" which some eminent white scholars and others have written about in detail! You need to read about this stuff because you are not well informed!
Google 'appeal to authority fallacy'
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mgi
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(Original post by Underscore__)
For films to be eligible they have to be for the digestion of western audiences as they need to, among other things, be released:
1. for paid admission in a commercial motion picture theater in Los Angeles County,
2. for a theatrical qualifying run of at least seven consecutive days, during which period screenings must occur at least three times daily, with at least one screening beginning between 6 p.m. and 10 p.m. daily.

Films that meet these requirements tend to be in English.

I also asked you for a specific example of a film that was well received among western critics that wasn't at least nominated for an Oscar.

You're somehow connecting this racism; a lack of foreign films means the Oscar judges are racist, but you can't read their minds.



If it's so well documented why didn't you answer my very straightforward question, which black manager is not currently managing in the Premier League that should be?

Also you're again connecting this to racism without evidence. You can't just say that because there are no black managers in the Premier League it must be due to racism.



Such as?



As above, examples please.



Well seeing as your position is apparently so well supported by data why don't you provide some



I haven't vouched for anyone, I've just said you haven't provided sufficient evidence to support your claims.



Google 'appeal to authority fallacy'
Your question about black managers currently available misses the obvious point again which is that black players once they retire from the game are rarely given opportunities to join clubs as managers. Frank Lampard, a white footballer ,got appointed almost immediately as manager of Chelsea when he retired but, as far as i am aware ,Didier Drogba, a black chelsea legend was never offered the job! This type of occurrence is not uncommon in UK.
So you are giving the ridiculous reason as that the films are not in English as the reason why a white selection committee does not pick films of what ever quality. Omg. Your statement: "You're somehow connecting this racism; a lack of foreign films means the Oscar judges are racist, but you can't read their minds" . Come on - even the most ardent racist knows that mind reading is not a test for whether racism exists! I think you are actually serious though aren't you? You have decided there is no racism, and desperately searched for any other explanation except the truth, but you have very limited knoeledge of how racism works in our society. 43% of ethnic minority people interviewed in study say that the Uk has a problem with racism! You can also look at and actually read some details of a government home office report. It does not make sense for me to produce copious well documented extra data until you actually declare an interest in actually reading! And , by the way, this is not about "google" its about you reading an home office summary to acquire some knowledge rather than seemingly trying to bend over backwards to deny the regular experiences of racism relating to ethnic minorities in this country.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7197066.html
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Underscore__
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(Original post by mgi)
Your question about black managers currently available misses the obvious point again which is that black players once they retire from the game are rarely given opportunities to join clubs as managers. Frank Lampard, a white footballer ,got appointed almost immediately as manager of Chelsea when he retired but, as far as i am aware ,Didier Drogba, a black chelsea legend was never offered the job! This type of occurrence is not uncommon in UK.
Frank Lampard before becoming Chelsea manager: 6th place finish and a narrow loss in the playoff final. Didier Drogba before Frank Lampard was appointed Chelsea manager: 0 games as a manger and owner of a team in America. Clearly Frank Lampard was vastly more qualified to become the manager and Didier Drogba had already rejected a role at Chelsea because he was interested in other things (helping his team join the MLS and more involvement with the Ivorian FA). To suggest that Lampard got the job over Drogba because he's white is completely baseless.

(Original post by mgi)
So you are giving the ridiculous reason as that the films are not in English as the reason why a white selection committee does not pick films of what ever quality.
I think you need to try rereading what I said; I showed you the eligibility requirements and said that most films that meet those requirements will be in English.

(Original post by mgi)
Omg. Your statement: "You're somehow connecting this racism; a lack of foreign films means the Oscar judges are racist, but you can't read their minds" . Come on - even the most ardent racist knows that mind reading is not a test for whether racism exists!
I haven't disputed that racism exists, I've just said that you can't accuse the Oscar voters (all 6000 of them) of being racist because films in English tend to win the awards.

(Original post by mgi)
I think you are actually serious though aren't you? You have decided there is no racism, and desperately searched for any other explanation except the truth, but you have very limited knoeledge of how racism works in our society.
You've provided zero evidence to prove this supposed truth.

(Original post by mgi)
43% of ethnic minority people interviewed in study say that the Uk has a problem with racism!
Right? So most ethnic minority people think the UK has no problem with racism, not sure how you think this is supportive of your argument. I'm also not sure what you think you're proving, people thinking something doesn't make it true.

(Original post by mgi)
You can also look at and actually read some details of a government home office report.
Which report are you referring to?

(Original post by mgi)
It does not make sense for me to produce copious well documented extra data until you actually declare an interest in actually reading! And , by the way, this is not about "google" its about you reading an home office summary to acquire some knowledge rather than seemingly trying to bend over backwards to deny the regular experiences of racism relating to ethnic minorities in this country. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7197066.html
Your problem is that you take a statistic that shows that white people are doing better and assume that the reason behind that is privilege/racism without being able to prove that's the cause.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by mgi)
43% of ethnic minority people interviewed in study say that the Uk has a problem with racism!
So most people of ethnic minority in the UK disagree with you and do not think that the UK has a problem with racism.
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mgi
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(Original post by Good bloke)
So most people of ethnic minority in the UK disagree with you and do not think that the UK has a problem with racism.
Come on. A basic course in stats will tell you that your statement is foolish! lol.
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mgi
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No, my point on Didier Drogba versus Lampard still stands.What" role" exactly did Drogba reject? An offer to manage Chelsea? no of course not. You are being silly. You pay lip service to the existence of racism! 6000 oscar voters who are all racist? Who said that apart from you? stop being silly. It is a voting system! Your comment "people thinking something doesn't make it true." that is true and also applies to your ignorance on racial matters. Just becsuse you close your eyes and bury your head in the sand does not mean that there are no clouds in the sky! lol.And your final strange comment: "So most people of ethnic minority in the UK disagree with you and do not think that the UK has a problem with racism" This comment is utterly ridiculous and shows that you don't understand even the most basic principles of statistical research! it made me laugh; so the other 57% said no then ? you are difficult to take seriously.
And try reading the link i gave you- and learn!
Last edited by mgi; 3 months ago
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Underscore__
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(Original post by mgi)
No, my point on Didier Drogba versus Lampard still stands.What" role" exactly did Drogba reject? An offer to manage Chelsea? no of course not. You are being silly.
He turned down a coaching role because he has other priorities. Regardless, I demonstrated how Lampard was clearly a far superior candidate. Claiming racism had anything to do with appointing Lampard and not Drogba is completely baseless.

(Original post by mgi)
You pay lip service to the existence of racism! 6000 oscar voters who are all racist? Who said that apart from you? stop being silly. It is a voting system!
Your comment "people thinking something doesn't make it true." that is true and also applies to your ignorance on racial matters. Just becsuse you close your eyes and bury your head in the sand does not mean that there are no clouds in the sky! lol.And your final strange comment: "So most people of ethnic minority in the UK disagree with you and do not think that the UK has a problem with racism" This comment is utterly ridiculous and shows that you don't understand even the most basic principles of statistical research! it made me laugh; so the other 57% said no then ? you are difficult to take seriously.
And try reading the link i gave you- and learn!
Yet again, you’ve provided zero evidence to support your claims. People of ethnic minorities being more likely to be unemployed or living in poverty does not prove there is some system of racism or that white people are inherently privileged. You’re assuming that the cause of those things is privilege/racism without providing any evidence.
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Napp
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(Original post by mgi)
Come on. A basic course in stats will tell you that your statement is foolish! lol.
How so? 57% is, after all, greater than 43% and represents the majority.
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Napp
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(Original post by mgi)
Your question about black managers currently available misses the obvious point again which is that black players once they retire from the game are rarely given opportunities to join clubs as managers. Frank Lampard, a white footballer ,got appointed almost immediately as manager of Chelsea when he retired but, as far as i am aware ,Didier Drogba, a black chelsea legend was never offered the job! This type of occurrence is not uncommon in UK.
So you are giving the ridiculous reason as that the films are not in English as the reason why a white selection committee does not pick films of what ever quality. Omg. Your statement: "You're somehow connecting this racism; a lack of foreign films means the Oscar judges are racist, but you can't read their minds" . Come on - even the most ardent racist knows that mind reading is not a test for whether racism exists! I think you are actually serious though aren't you? You have decided there is no racism, and desperately searched for any other explanation except the truth, but you have very limited knoeledge of how racism works in our society. 43% of ethnic minority people interviewed in study say that the Uk has a problem with racism! You can also look at and actually read some details of a government home office report. It does not make sense for me to produce copious well documented extra data until you actually declare an interest in actually reading! And , by the way, this is not about "google" its about you reading an home office summary to acquire some knowledge rather than seemingly trying to bend over backwards to deny the regular experiences of racism relating to ethnic minorities in this country.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7197066.html
I assume this is rather like the so called problem of racism in universities where upon closer inspection of the notional 'great problem with raicsm' it actually turned out that;
a) The majority of these "racist" complaints were actually so called microaggressions i.e. non existant
b) it turned out that only about 0.005% of students or staff had actually ever filed a report in the first place?

*number might be a smidge off as i cannot be bothered finding the article on it again.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by mgi)
Come on. A basic course in stats will tell you that your statement is foolish! lol.
A primary school level course in arithmetic will tell you that it is completely accurate.
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the beer
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(Original post by Good bloke)
So most people of ethnic minority in the UK disagree with you and do not think that the UK has a problem with racism.
Only 29% disagree
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