No Deal Brexit Will Hit Leave Voting Areas The Hardest - Says Report Watch

MrMusician95
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What are everyone's thoughts of this?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/n...port-mxt8nqzxm
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Kitten in boots
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If people who voted for Brexit then find themselves unemployed and living in poverty as a result of Brexit, it is difficult to have any sympathy for them. They made their decision, they have to accept the consequences of their decision.

However it will be a real shame to see people who didn't vote for Brexit suffer due to the irresponsibility of Brexiters.
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MrMusician95
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(Original post by Kitten in boots)
If people who voted for Brexit then find themselves unemployed and living in poverty as a result of Brexit, it is difficult to have any sympathy for them. They made their decision, they have to accept the consequences of their decision.

However it will be a real shame to see people who didn't vote for Brexit suffer due to the irresponsibility of Brexiters.
Agreed. People who voted leave, I have no sympathy for them. But those who voted to remain and find themselves in this situation, I feel really bad for them.
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Rakas21
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As bad as these reports sound they are short term and don’t assume any change in wider policy (if we did not take advantage of leaving there’d be no point). For example fishing, not being subject to state aid rules (discriminating in favour of British firms) and no longer (in the long term given the cost) having to apply VAT.

I’m not overly concerned at the content. Brexit is a long term project.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by MrMusician95)
Agreed. People who voted leave, I have no sympathy for them. But those who voted to remain and find themselves in this situation, I feel really bad for them.
How very magnanimous of you, but I think that the vast majority of us knew what we were letting ourselves in for.
Now just sit back and watch as a deal appears before your very eyes over the next few days, obviously the threat of a no deal brexit has done it's job which is exactly why it has to stay as an option.
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MarcosTheories
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Interesting read
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Kitten in boots)
If people who voted for Brexit then find themselves unemployed and living in poverty as a result of Brexit, it is difficult to have any sympathy for them. They made their decision, they have to accept the consequences of their decision.

However it will be a real shame to see people who didn't vote for Brexit suffer due to the irresponsibility of Brexiters.
If those in a position of power and influenced in say, the pharmasutical industry offered a mild sleeping pill to pregnant women and that sleeping pill caused chronic birth defects, is it the women's fault?

Those who voted were spoon fed false promises and misinformation whilst those warning of the dangers were vilified as remoaners and Project Fear.

Is it really the fault of voters who just want a better life?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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There's no schadenfreude to be had here, because our Poundland Trump has already started the blame game, and the damage done to these areas will just solidify the anti-EU and anti-left sentiment as the government propaganda machine goes into overdrive to tell them it's the fault of the EU for not surrendering to us, and the fault of labour for not backing a deal or a general election, or for passing the Benn Act. They'll never get to hear the truth, that this is exactly what they voted for, because what they are getting is dictated by the far end of the Tory party, who've never had the interests of the country at heart
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Zerforax
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(Original post by Rakas21)
As bad as these reports sound they are short term and don’t assume any change in wider policy (if we did not take advantage of leaving there’d be no point). For example fishing, not being subject to state aid rules (discriminating in favour of British firms) and no longer (in the long term given the cost) having to apply VAT.

I’m not overly concerned at the content. Brexit is a long term project.
I may have misunderstood your post but are you suggesting we could mitigate the downside of Brexit with the upside from fishing..?

HMRC collects approx £120-130 billion a year from VAT. How exactly would you make up for that short fall in government revenue?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Zerforax)
I may have misunderstood your post but are you suggesting we could mitigate the downside of Brexit with the upside from fishing..?

HMRC collects approx £120-130 billion a year from VAT. How exactly would you make up for that short fall in government revenue?
Of course not, my point is that all economic forecasts have suggested that there will be a drop in relative growth of upto half a percent in GDP per year out to 2030 which means that any gain from Brexit is long term. With that being said, those forecasts may also be overly bearish given that they assume the status-quo. For me though, that's a price worth paying for new opportunities and to leave the single market (to be able to do things like state aid and vat reform).

It would have to be done in stages probably over at least a decade but you could get a good £30bn from abolishing foreign aid, bringing in a carbon tax and bringing in a 'mansion' tax. From there we have other possibilities such as removing the state contribution to pensions, restricting the annual NHS splurge simply to 2% per annum and a couple of other spending and tax reforms bringing smaller gains. That would get us close to half way though.
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Pencil
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In 2016, there were no jobs in my area and workers were generally treated badly as even the good workers were disposable.

Now, there are lots of jobs around. Whether that's to do with Brexit effect, who knows?
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DJKL
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(Original post by Rakas21)
As bad as these reports sound they are short term and don’t assume any change in wider policy (if we did not take advantage of leaving there’d be no point). For example fishing, not being subject to state aid rules (discriminating in favour of British firms) and no longer (in the long term given the cost) having to apply VAT.

I’m not overly concerned at the content. Brexit is a long term project.
Vat on what? Maybe there is something I miss re fishing, but what vat does a fisherman apply and for what and to whom?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by DJKL)
Vat on what? Maybe there is something I miss re fishing, but what vat does a fisherman apply and for what and to whom?
Ha. I was referring to two different things.

Exiting the Common Fisheries Policy is likely to be beneficial because currently more than 60% of stock in UK waters is able to be caught by foreigners.
Exiting the Single Market means that we are no longer legally obligated to apply VAT on anything albeit as mentioned it brings in a lot of revenue and would take time to remove.
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Quady
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(Original post by Kitten in boots)
If people who voted for Brexit then find themselves unemployed and living in poverty as a result of Brexit, it is difficult to have any sympathy for them. They made their decision, they have to accept the consequences of their decision.

However it will be a real shame to see people who didn't vote for Brexit suffer due to the irresponsibility of Brexiters.
Who's after sympathy?

You make it sound like they weren't aware of the personal consequences.
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Quady
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(Original post by DJKL)
Vat on what? Maybe there is something I miss re fishing, but what vat does a fisherman apply and for what and to whom?
Fishing boats?
Fuel?
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Quady
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(Original post by Zerforax)
I may have misunderstood your post but are you suggesting we could mitigate the downside of Brexit with the upside from fishing..?

HMRC collects approx £120-130 billion a year from VAT. How exactly would you make up for that short fall in government revenue?
£120bn in VAT from the fishing industry?

That's incredible.
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Jjj90
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(Original post by Quady)
Who's after sympathy?

You make it sound like they weren't aware of the personal consequences.
Haha, well what an outlandish suggestion that would be!
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Jjj90
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Ha. I was referring to two different things.

Exiting the Common Fisheries Policy is likely to be beneficial because currently more than 60% of stock in UK waters is able to be caught by foreigners.
Exiting the Single Market means that we are no longer legally obligated to apply VAT on anything albeit as mentioned it brings in a lot of revenue and would take time to remove.
Yeah... but aren't you ignoring the fact that the vast majority of UK fish is sold to the EU?
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quirky editor
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My reaction is the temptation to start reading some actual Marx and Engels. Late stage capitalism is in my head lately. Also with the climate change discussion.
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MajorKong
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(Original post by quirky editor)
My reaction is the temptation to start reading some actual Marx and Engels. Late stage capitalism is in my head lately. Also with the climate change discussion.
Don't bother. Marx is a horrible writer, and created a system which killed 100 million people.
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