Can Conservatives introduce voter ID without a vote in parliament? Watch

quirky editor
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#1
If not isn't this legal election rigging. Since certain demographics are affected more than others.
1
reply
quirky editor
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#2
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#2
*Can
0
reply
Joleee
Badges: 18
#3
Report 4 weeks ago
#3
fixed it for you

if you're trying to pass a bill into law it must be voted on.
www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/

i don't know anything else about the issue tho. what's your concern?
0
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#4
Report 4 weeks ago
#4
(Original post by Joleee)
fixed it for you

if you're trying to pass a bill into law it must be voted on.
www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/

i don't know anything else about the issue tho. what's your concern?
There should be no issue with this at all, a driving license ( I would assume a provisional one would do) or a passport would suffice, failing that a free id card would be available from your local council.
The only people that could really take issue with this would be those who wish to "beat" the system.
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#5
Report 4 weeks ago
#5
(Original post by ColinDent)
There should be no issue with this at all, a driving license ( I would assume a provisional one would do) or a passport would suffice, failing that a free id card would be available from your local council.
The only people that could really take issue with this would be those who wish to "beat" the system.
There is virtually no evidence of voter personage outside of Northern Ireland. Almost all electoral fraud concerns misuse of postal voting.

ID requirements suppress voting by less organised voters and those less embedded in civic society.

About 11 million people do not hold a passport or driving licence. 3.5 million have any no photo ID. The difference between the two figures probably largely represents bus pass holders.

There is also a circularity. What evidence would someone have to produce to get a card from the Council and with the only incentive being the opportunity to vote, would they bother?

We have seen the issue with the Windrush generation immigrants. The reality is lots of people live different lives to those who would find no difficulty in providing ID. 22% of the British population have never flown and the second most common reason for not having gone abroad is “too complicated”.
2
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#6
Report 4 weeks ago
#6
(Original post by nulli tertius)
There is virtually no evidence of voter personage outside of Northern Ireland. Almost all electoral fraud concerns misuse of postal voting.

ID requirements suppress voting by less organised voters and those less embedded in civic society.

About 11 million people do not hold a passport or driving licence. 3.5 million have any no photo ID. The difference between the two figures probably largely represents bus pass holders.

There is also a circularity. What evidence would someone have to produce to get a card from the Council and with the only incentive being the opportunity to vote, would they bother?

We have seen the issue with the Windrush generation immigrants. The reality is lots of people live different lives to those who would find no difficulty in providing ID. 22% of the British population have never flown and the second most common reason for not having gone abroad is “too complicated”.
If you want to vote then you will do whatever you need to do so, there are I believe also some measures to stop postal fraud.
Maybe they could issue photo ID on N.I. cards as a free of charge thing, there are other ways around it but I fail to see how photographic evidence at polling stations can be a bad thing.
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#7
Report 4 weeks ago
#7
(Original post by ColinDent)
If you want to vote then you will do whatever you need to do so, there are I believe also some measures to stop postal fraud.
Maybe they could issue photo ID on N.I. cards as a free of charge thing, there are other ways around it but I fail to see how photographic evidence at polling stations can be a bad thing.
In trials over the last two years between 30-50% of voters who failed to attend polling stations with the right ID didn’t bother coming back. The reality is that voting isn’t that important to a lot of the public.
0
reply
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#8
Report 4 weeks ago
#8
(Original post by nulli tertius)
In trials over the last two years between 30-50% of voters who failed to attend polling stations with the right ID didn’t bother coming back. The reality is that voting isn’t that important to a lot of the public.
The sad truth is that your average man in the street isn't really affected by politics. It makes no real practical difference to them if they live under a liberal socialist system or a fascist dictatorship, as long as it functions.
0
reply
Kitten in boots
Badges: 10
Rep:
?
#9
Report 4 weeks ago
#9
(Original post by ColinDent)
If you want to vote then you will do whatever you need to do so, there are I believe also some measures to stop postal fraud.
Maybe they could issue photo ID on N.I. cards as a free of charge thing, there are other ways around it but I fail to see how photographic evidence at polling stations can be a bad thing.
We know from evidence from across the globe that more stringent rules regarding voter ID, the less democratic participation we see among already underrepresented groups.

So voter ID is fantastic if you want to see see fewer unemployed, poor, or young people vote. That says a lot about your own political views.
Last edited by Kitten in boots; 4 weeks ago
3
reply
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#10
Report 4 weeks ago
#10
(Original post by nulli tertius)
There is virtually no evidence of voter personage outside of Northern Ireland.
And Tower Hamlets.
0
reply
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 4 weeks ago
#11
(Original post by nulli tertius)
The reality is that voting isn’t that important to a lot of the public.
The low turnout and poor security means that personation at polling stations is an unlocked door waiting to be pushed by anyone who has the balls to try it, and who can run fast enough if challenged. Your average poll clerk wouldn't get beyond dropping her knitting and looking for her spectacles before such a person was half a mile away..
0
reply
Andrew97
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#12
Report 4 weeks ago
#12
It’s perfectly reasonable for this to be introduced. It’s baffling that I can turn up at the polling station and just say I’m somebody without needing to prove it.

People carry out ID with them, young people who wish to go into a pub for a drink or buy an energy drink etc. So to claim young people don’t have ID is for the birds.
1
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#13
Report 4 weeks ago
#13
(Original post by Good bloke)
And Tower Hamlets.
Intimidation, bribery, ghost voters and postal vote fraud but not traditional personation.
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#14
Report 4 weeks ago
#14
(Original post by Good bloke)
The low turnout and poor security means that personation at polling stations is an unlocked door waiting to be pushed by anyone who has the balls to try it, and who can run fast enough if challenged. Your average poll clerk wouldn't get beyond dropping her knitting and looking for her spectacles before such a person was half a mile away..
It doesn't happen and the reason it doesn't happen is because it involves too much effort and too much risk for too little return.
0
reply
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#15
Report 4 weeks ago
#15
(Original post by nulli tertius)
Intimidation, bribery, ghost voters and postal vote fraud but not traditional personation.
According to the reports, Mr Rahman used all the tools at his disposal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...an-guilty.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32428648
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#16
Report 4 weeks ago
#16
(Original post by Andrew97)
It’s perfectly reasonable for this to be introduced. It’s baffling that I can turn up at the polling station and just say I’m somebody without needing to prove it.

People carry out ID with them, young people who wish to go into a pub for a drink or buy an energy drink etc. So to claim young people don’t have ID is for the birds.
I am afraid you are assuming everyone else lives the life you live. How many Sikh girls go into pubs to drink? There is no religious prohibition on Sikhs drinking. However, that would be seen as culturally abnormal behaviour.
Last edited by nulli tertius; 4 weeks ago
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#17
Report 4 weeks ago
#17
(Original post by Good bloke)
According to the reports, Mr Rahman used all the tools at his disposal.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...an-guilty.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32428648
If you read 309-376 of https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2015/1215.html

you will see that there was virtually nothing that could have been stopped by demanding "your papers please". (there was one situation which was either double voting by the real voter or the second vote was cast by a personator).
0
reply
quirky editor
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#18
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#18
(Original post by nulli tertius)
I am afraid you are assuming everyone else lives the life you live. How many Sikh girls go into pubs to drink? There is no religious prohibition on Sikhs drinking. However, that would be seen as culturally abnormal behaviour.
There actually IS a prohibition but a lot don't follow it. They're are not as strict with it as Muslims.
0
reply
londonmyst
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#19
Report 4 weeks ago
#19
Probably not, if it is done it will likely be subject to legal challenge.
I don't agree with the 'you are expected to carry and show your photo id on demand' attitude.
Too much of the mandatory id cards and authoritarian state whiff for my taste.

Very few people indulge in habitual criminality or are brazen enough to attempt face to face fraudulent impersonation of another person.
The unpleasant few can be deterred by other means than demanding everyone carry photo id, which may or may not be fake.
0
reply
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#20
Report 4 weeks ago
#20
(Original post by londonmyst)
Probably not, if it is done it will likely be subject to legal challenge.
That would not get very far. Most EU countries demand citizens hold ID cards and many, including France, Germany, Netherlands and Sweden demand that voters prove their identity to vote.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Which party will you be voting for in the General Election?

Conservatives (23)
17.69%
Labour (53)
40.77%
Liberal Democrats (24)
18.46%
Green Party (6)
4.62%
Brexit Party (4)
3.08%
Independent Group for Change (Change UK) (0)
0%
SNP (3)
2.31%
Plaid Cymru (4)
3.08%
Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) (0)
0%
Sinn Fein (0)
0%
SDLP (0)
0%
Ulster Unionist (0)
0%
UKIP (1)
0.77%
Other (2)
1.54%
None (10)
7.69%

Watched Threads

View All