Opinions on BREXIT and current status?? Watch

QE2
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Sam1999__)
Well I could Google some laws to name for you, the reason i'm not going to is because by focusing on individual laws we are completely missing the point.
So presumably you tried Googling some but couldn't find any. Interesting, given these "laws" were a major reason for voting Leave. Hmm...

The problem isn't with what the laws are, it's the fact that a foreign court and foreign legislation is being implemented our nation.
But until you can show that the EU actually does make and implement "foreign legislation" on the UK, your claim is meaningless.

Immigration was a part of the issue, you're absolutely right. Wanting to control immigration does not make you xenophobic or racist, it is the right of any nation to decide who comes into their country. This basic right of a nation has been stripped by the EU. The problem with the EU is uncontrolled immigration. As a nation state you can pick and choose who comes into your country, as members of the EU we cannot control immigration from European countries. If free movement was a few northern countries like Sweden, Belgium, Holland, France, UK, Ireland, Germany etc it would have probably worked. The current situation has been a complete disaster.
So, what are the main problems cause by EU immigration that will be solved by leaving the EU?

Above all the politics and the economics, the most important thing at stake here is we are supposed to be a nation. A nation state doesn't have foreign courts and laws interfering in their affairs. By voting for Brexit we voted to be a nation again, rather than a province of a federal EU. I am British, therefore I do not recognize the legitimacy of EU laws within British lands. If in France, I will abide by French laws, if in Spain I will abide by Spanish laws etc etc. The EU is trying to remove nation states and replace them with a federal union, something neither I nor the British people want and that is why leave won.
So you think that in France and Spain, French and Spanish laws apply but in the UK, UK law does not apply.
Yeah, ok.
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Sam1999__
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#62
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#62
(Original post by QE2)
So presumably you tried Googling some but couldn't find any. Interesting, given these "laws" were a major reason for voting Leave. Hmm...


But until you can show that the EU actually does make and implement "foreign legislation" on the UK, your claim is meaningless.


So, what are the main problems cause by EU immigration that will be solved by leaving the EU?


So you think that in France and Spain, French and Spanish laws apply but in the UK, UK law does not apply.
Yeah, ok.
No I didn't Google them, I have no interest in doing so because the specific laws are of no interest to me. It is a question of national pride and patriotism, I do not accept the legitamacy of laws governing British lands that come from outside our borders. Are you trying to claim that none of our laws come from Brussels?
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Miss Maddie
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#63
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#63
Leave - sooner the better without a deal. It's time limit EU immigration and remove the ability of the EU to create any rule directly affecting us
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QE2
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Sam1999__)
No I didn't Google them, I have no interest in doing so because the specific laws are of no interest to me. It is a question of national pride and patriotism, I do not accept the legitamacy of laws governing British lands that come from outside our borders.
Ok, I will type this slowly...
If you cannot find any evidence of any laws imposed on the UK by the EU, how do you know that it happens?

Are you trying to claim that none of our laws come from Brussels?
No. You are the claiming that they do. I am merely asking you for some examples. So far, you haven't been able to provide any.
Last edited by QE2; 4 weeks ago
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brimstone131
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#65
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#65
(Original post by QE2)
Ok, I will type this slowly...
If you cannot find any evidence of any laws imposed on the UK by the EU, how do you know that it happens?

{quote]Are you trying to claim that none of our laws come from Brussels?
No. You are the claiming that they do. I am merely asking you for some examples. So far, you haven't been able to provide any.[/QUOTE]
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-...osed-in-the-UK
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QE2
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#66
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#66
That list seemed a little odd. Having a euro flex packaged with electrical goods? It that really why people voted Leave?
Also, none of those are "laws" that have been "imposed on the UK". Every single law on the UK statute books is proposed, debated and passed by parliament in Westminster. And don't forget that the UK takes part in the formation of all EU directives and regulations.
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Sam1999__
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#67
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#67
(Original post by brimstone131)
No. You are the claiming that they do. I am merely asking you for some examples. So far, you haven't been able to provide any.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-...osed-in-the-UK[/QUOTE]
I scrolled down your source for about 2 seconds and found this
'Considering the UK is part of the EU since 1973 (the EEC back then), it follows all the laws imposed by it.'
Many leading politicians say that laws come from the EU. The only thing that is ever disputed is what percentage, not if any at all come from Brussels. Unless they are all making it up of course, that included people in the remain camp as well. I doubt all of our politicians would completely invent the fact that EU laws are imposed on the UK
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AJ126y
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#68
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#68
(Original post by YOLOYOLO2)
What are your opinions on this particular situation? Are you for or against it? What do you think will happen in parliament tommorrow? I'm just curious lol Personally I'd wanna remain but that just my opinion!
Personally I'd be happy if I never heard the word mentioned ever again. At this point I'm past caring about it.
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nulli tertius
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#69
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#69
I scrolled down your source for about 2 seconds and found this
'Considering the UK is part of the EU since 1973 (the EEC back then), it follows all the laws imposed by it.'
Many leading politicians say that laws come from the EU. The only thing that is ever disputed is what percentage, not if any at all come from Brussels. Unless they are all making it up of course, that included people in the remain camp as well. I doubt all of our politicians would completely invent the fact that EU laws are imposed on the UK[/QUOTE]


I am afraid the list you found is rubbish.

I am going to deal with one specific instance from the top of the list, but I first want to make a general point. You can't turn the clock back 45 years. The law has evolved here, in other EU states and in non-EU countries over the last 45 years and in the case of laws about goods and services the laws in all those countries are similar to ours. Brussels hasn't made us adopt say car pollution laws. Every country has broadly similar car pollution laws. If we weren't in the EU broadly similar car pollution laws would have existed.

To deal with an instance from the list; electrical power cords. The current Regulations derive from a European Directive but the rules relating to power cords date from the 1960s. Here is the 1975 version of the rules and you can see that it refers to a lot of British Standards from the 1960s.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/...9751366_en.pdf

Those Regulations were made under an Act of Parliament adopted in 1961. You will see at the end that the Government said that the rules were consistent with a European Directive but these rules didn't implement that Directive. The rules were made under legislation that pre-dated our joining the EEC to implement standards adopted before we joined the EEC.

The person who created that list couldn't have bought a computer without a power cable if we hadn't joined the EU since that was a requirement since the days when computers had small sub-stations to power them.

British politicians have always blamed the EU, it is a convenient excuse, for Regulations that are necessary for one reason or another but which are unpopular with the general public. Effectively politicians have had 45 years of failing to take public responsibility for their own decisions. The UK supported EU lawmaking decisions 97.4% of the time in 2004-9 and 86.7% of the time in 2009-15.
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DraconisAudiat
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
Leave - sooner the better without a deal. It's time limit EU immigration and remove the ability of the EU to create any rule directly affecting us
If you hate Europe so much you're free to leave.
I recommend you leave by foot off the bottom of Land's End.
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Miss Maddie
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#71
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#71
(Original post by DraconisAudiat)
If you hate Europe so much you're free to leave.
I recommend you leave by foot off the bottom of Land's End.
I was completely unaware that a dislike of the EU as an institution also meant a dislike of Europe. Probably why remainers have never accepted the result. The argument has always been over their heads.
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Sam1999__
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#72
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#72
I see what you are saying, and I agree it's certainly true that some 'EU' laws would have existed anyway, regardless of us being the the EU or not. The problem is though, as a sovereign nation, it is not acceptable that even one iota of legislation that comes from the European union in any way. A classic remoaner tactic is to claim all leave arguments are false and everyone is lying. I find it hard to believe that all these sources and politicians are completely inventing lies, it just doesn't make any sense.

Taking laws in any shape of form from a foreign organisation sets us on a dark path, who knows how integrated we will be in 10, 20, 30 years. Look how far the EU has already mutated since it's inception, it is slowly creeping ever further into our sovereignty as a nation state, it is important we leave now before it becomes too powerful. This may sound like a far fetched scenario, but if you told someone in 1975 what the EU would be in 2019, that would have sounded far fetched to them. If we value being a nation state, we must leave the European Union as soon as possible before it is too late.
Last edited by Sam1999__; 3 weeks ago
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DraconisAudiat
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Sam1999__)
If we value being a nation state, we must leave the European Union as soon as possible before it is too late.
And why should we want to remain a nation state?
Again, I don't see whats so evil about being part of the European Union. The fact that an international committee including British politicians sometimes passes laws that impact us isn't enough for me to want to rip up every trade deal and economic benefit from being in the EU.
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Sam1999__
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#74
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#74
(Original post by DraconisAudiat)
And why should we want to remain a nation state?
Again, I don't see whats so evil about being part of the European Union. The fact that an international committee including British politicians sometimes passes laws that impact us isn't enough for me to want to rip up every trade deal and economic benefit from being in the EU.
Because your nationality is one of the most important things that define you as a person, it is a common culture, common language, shared upbringing and a sacred flag we can all get behind. The countries of Europe are different, forcing them together in a political union has not worked and never will. The European Union was only ever supposed to be a trade agreement, a European identity and political union was never part of it. As Winston Churchill said, if Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.
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DraconisAudiat
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#75
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#75
A sacred flag we can all get behind?
What are you talking about?

We've been part of the EU for decades now and we've still got our flag, our country, our culture, our language, upbringing and everything else. We've still got our queen and our parliament. Your argument that the EU is going to destroy all that is as ridiculous as your idea that the "open sea" is a better partner than the largest trading union in the world.
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Sam1999__
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#76
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#76
(Original post by DraconisAudiat)
A sacred flag we can all get behind?
What are you talking about?

We've been part of the EU for decades now and we've still got our flag, our country, our culture, our language, upbringing and everything else. We've still got our queen and our parliament. Your argument that the EU is going to destroy all that is as ridiculous as your idea that the "open sea" is a better partner than the largest trading union in the world.
Except it's a bit more than a trading union now, that's the issue. Nowhere else in the world or in the history of free trade deals involves a political union with a parliament, laws, an anthem and a flag. The European Union started as a trading union and in less than 40 years it has become an increasingly federal union, all without ever consulting the people. Who knows how integrated it will be in another 40 years, our monarchy and parliament may become ever more obsolete. The EU is becoming bigger and more political all the time, it is not outlandish to believe a United States of Europe is on the horizon, we voted leave because we want to remain British and pass the British identity down to future generations, remaining in the EU runs the danger of Britain simply becoming a province of the United States of Europe and children of the future identifying as 'European' instead of British.
Last edited by Sam1999__; 2 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
Leave - sooner the better without a deal. It's time limit EU immigration and remove the ability of the EU to create any rule directly affecting us
You're right. There'll always be an England, and England shall be free, if England means as much to you as England means to me... We're not in the 1940's anymore for christ's sake. All this buffoonery about us being a sovereign nation and choosing how we exist is complete fallacy. We do that, we suffer massive massive consequences. For example, justify the economic suffrage.
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Sam1999__
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#78
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#78
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
You're right. There'll always be an England, and England shall be free, if England means as much to you as England means to me... We're not in the 1940's anymore for christ's sake. All this buffoonery about us being a sovereign nation and choosing how we exist is complete fallacy. We do that, we suffer massive massive consequences. For example, justify the economic suffrage.
Economics are worthless if you lose your national identity, all the money in the world cannot replace your nation. Nations are just as important today as ever so I don't understand your 1940s point. Also, please don't describe us being a sovereign nation as 'buffoonery'. Ones nation is second only to your family and friends, it's not something to be infringed upon for the sake of a one sided economic argument in favor of the EU
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imlikeahermit
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Sam1999__)
Economics are worthless if you lose your national identity, all the money in the world cannot replace your nation. Nations are just as important today as ever so I don't understand your 1940s point. Also, please don't describe us being a sovereign nation as 'buffoonery'. Ones nation is second only to your family and friends, it's not something to be infringed upon for the sake of a one sided economic argument in favor of the EU
:rofl:
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nulli tertius
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Sam1999__)
Economics are worthless if you lose your national identity, all the money in the world cannot replace your nation. Nations are just as important today as ever so I don't understand your 1940s point. Also, please don't describe us being a sovereign nation as 'buffoonery'. Ones nation is second only to your family and friends, it's not something to be infringed upon for the sake of a one sided economic argument in favor of the EU
Wales has been in a political union with England since 1284. In what sense does Wales not have a national identity?
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