Levi.-
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[might be a long read sry]
So I'm currently in year 12 and at that stage where I should probably give some real thought into what I want to study at university; I went to a summer school at Cambridge University for bio-chemistry and that has resulted in me wanting to apply to either Oxford or Cambridge, UCl and Imperial. I'm certain I want to work in finance and I have a fair bit of experience in trading Forex and to work in the big banks a specific degree isn't required- more so the right education and connections, ( or so I've been told). I was debating between prepping for PPE, Land economy, HSPS or Medicine since those are what I'm genuinely interested in; I come from a family of medics so I'm being heavily encouraged to go for medicine since it's a well known route in our family and we are very familiar with the admissions process (for UCL and Imperial too but not Oxbridge).
I already have a lot of background information in the field and have read alot of books relating to medicine as well as researching different aspects of the field which goes beyond my A-level biology and chemistry curriculum and I know that's the sorta stuff Oxford and Cambridge really value so medicine seems like a more straightforward route for me (not an easy route however).
My brother goes to Leeds and got a 7.5 in his BMAT and has offered to help support me in prepping for it and I can get a lot of different work experience thanks to my family but I don't want to waste time preparing for a course I may not even have the prerequisites for so if anyone familiar with the admissions process for medicine at these unis can advise me whether to do something else or go for it would be a huge help - my family will obviously hold a bias view.

A-levels chosen: Maths, biology, chemistry, EPQ
Target grades: A* A* A* A*

GCSES: (may look decent on paper but Oxford use proportion of A*s as well as number so I worry someone who sat only 9 GCSEs and got 9 8s stands a better chance at getting in- the main factor holding me back)

Biology - 9
Chemistry - 9
Physics - 9
History - 9
Geography - 9
Religious Studies - 9
Business Studies - 9
English literature - 9
English language - 8
Mathematics - 8
German - 7
Further maths - C

Number of A stars :10
Proportion of A stars: 0.83

If anyone thinks I should apply for something else for any reason at all please just say, having viewpoints that clash with my family's can help me produce a more informed choice. Cheers.
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Sinnoh
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Come on, "Loxbridge" isn't a thing. Don't try to make it a thing.

If you're certain you want to work in finance then I don't understand all this preparation for medicine. Many physical/biological science graduates go into finance, a medicine degree isn't necessary for that.
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Levi.-
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(Original post by Sinnoh)
Come on, "Loxbridge" isn't a thing. Don't try to make it a thing.

If you're certain you want to work in finance then I don't understand all this preparation for medicine. Many physical/biological science graduates go into finance, a medicine degree isn't necessary for that.
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden...(universities) ----- where I got the phrase from
2) I did not say medicine is necessary, just that it's interesting and something I can see myself enjoying at university; physical/biological sciences are not too appealing to me if I'm being honest. Thanks though
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by Levi.-)
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden...(universities) ----- where I got the phrase from
2) I did not say medicine is necessary, just that it's interesting and something I can see myself enjoying at university; physical/biological sciences are not too appealing to me if I'm being honest. Thanks though
Why do you think medicine is appealing but biological sciences aren't? The only difference between medicine and biomedical sciences, realistically are the clinical aspects which are only relevant to medicine as a professional career. Also the fact that medicine (at Oxbridge anyway) will take twice as long for you to graduate and start getting work experience and into the finance industry, assuming that is your career goal.

It sounds more like you're trying to "collect" prestige on your path to wealth, than actually having any commitment to a career in medicine (or otherwise). Bear in mind commitment to a career in medicine and awareness of the training required etc is something medical schools look for from applicants. Applying to medicine with no intent to go into the medical profession, other than be somewhat pointless as above, may well negatively affect your chance to get into the course (Whether you specifically explain that is your route or you don't and the admissions tutors get the impression you aren't committed anyway).
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Levi.-
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
Why do you think medicine is appealing but biological sciences aren't? The only difference between medicine and biomedical sciences, realistically are the clinical aspects which are only relevant to medicine as a professional career. Also the fact that medicine (at Oxbridge anyway) will take twice as long for you to graduate and start getting work experience and into the finance industry, assuming that is your career goal.

It sounds more like you're trying to "collect" prestige on your path to wealth, than actually having any commitment to a career in medicine (or otherwise).
I had a look at a few biomedical science courses and they look interesting to a certain extent but I would like to experience the clinical side of medicine and graduate with a medical degree so I can work as a doctor if the finance thing doesn't work out; job security isn't great in finance. Though I do appreciate you commenting - thanks. Anything you can add in regards to the whole university application content of my question?
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by Levi.-)
I had a look at a few biomedical science courses and they look interesting to a certain extent but I would like to experience the clinical side of medicine and graduate with a medical degree so I can work as a doctor if the finance thing doesn't work out; job security isn't great in finance. Though I do appreciate you commenting - thanks. Anything you can add in regards to the whole university application content of my question?
Yes, don't apply to medicine if you aren't fully committed to entering the medical profession. Your potential future patients deserve to not be someones second choice. If you change your mind after doing another degree you can go into graduate entry medicine, once you are fully committed to that path.

It's really abhorrent, actually, from the perspective of an NHS patient, that you are treating the profession as a throw away that you don't really want to do but you will deign to go into if you must. It utterly trivialises the suffering people go through that they go to a doctor to help with, that you might just yawn at them and decide perhaps you will help improve their wellbeing that day.

Even aside from that above, it's just mathematically nonsensical to do a 6 year degree to go into finance. You are cutting off 3 years of potential earnings by doing a 6 year course, instead of doing a 3 year course. Even if you did subsequently decide you wanted to go into medicine, GEM is only 4 years so you only have an opportunity cost of 1 year of your future earnings as a result of the change. 3 years of finance earnings are a lot more than 1 year of medicine earnings as well, generally, so there is really no reason to do medicine as your first degree unless you are committed to a career in medicine.
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Muttley79
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(Original post by Levi.-)
[might be a long read sry]
So I'm currently in year 12 and at that stage where I should probably give some real thought into what I want to study at university; I went to a summer school at Cambridge University for bio-chemistry and that has resulted in me wanting to apply to either Oxford or Cambridge, UCl and Imperial. I'm certain I want to work in finance and I have a fair bit of experience in trading Forex and to work in the big banks a specific degree isn't required- more so the right education and connections, ( or so I've been told). I was debating between prepping for PPE, Land economy, HSPS or Medicine since those are what I'm genuinely interested in; I come from a family of medics so I'm being heavily encouraged to go for medicine since it's a well known route in our family and we are very familiar with the admissions process (for UCL and Imperial too but not Oxbridge).
I already have a lot of background information in the field and have read alot of books relating to medicine as well as researching different aspects of the field which goes beyond my A-level biology and chemistry curriculum and I know that's the sorta stuff Oxford and Cambridge really value so medicine seems like a more straightforward route for me (not an easy route however).
My brother goes to Leeds and got a 7.5 in his BMAT and has offered to help support me in prepping for it and I can get a lot of different work experience thanks to my family but I don't want to waste time preparing for a course I may not even have the prerequisites for so if anyone familiar with the admissions process for medicine at these unis can advise me whether to do something else or go for it would be a huge help - my family will obviously hold a bias view.

If anyone thinks I should apply for something else for any reason at all please just say, having viewpoints that clash with my family's can help me produce a more informed choice. Cheers.
This must be one of the craziness reasons for studying medicine that I've ever read. PLEASE don't waste tax payers money studying this degree unless you are going to enter the medical profession - it is a complete waste of time.
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Levi.-
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
Yes, don't apply to medicine if you aren't fully committed to entering the medical profession. Your potential future patients deserve to not be someones second choice. If you change your mind after doing another degree you can go into graduate entry medicine, once you are fully committed to that path.

It's really abhorrent, actually, from the perspective of an NHS patient, that you are treating the profession as a throw away that you don't really want to do but you will deign to go into if you must. It utterly trivialises the suffering people go through that they go to a doctor to help with, that you might just yawn at them and decide perhaps you will help improve their wellbeing that day.

Even aside from that above, it's just mathematically nonsensical to do a 6 year degree to go into finance. You are cutting off 3 years of potential earnings by doing a 6 year course, instead of doing a 3 year course. Even if you did subsequently decide you wanted to go into medicine, GEM is only 4 years so you only have an opportunity cost of 1 year of your future earnings as a result of the change. 3 years of finance earnings are a lot more than 1 year of medicine earnings as well, generally, so there is really no reason to do medicine as your first degree unless you are committed to a career in medicine.
I see, ignoring the ethical points - I'm not interested in hearing about how my choice is perhaps unethical but the fact that it might be detrimental to my aspirational career in finance is a very helpful point. Cheers
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by Levi.-)
I see, ignoring the ethical points - I'm not interested in hearing about how my choice is perhaps unethical but the fact that it might be detrimental to my aspirational career in finance is a very helpful point. Cheers
The fact you choose to "[ignore] the ethical points" is, incidentally, another huge red flag on why you shouldn't do a medical degree or even attempt to go into the medical profession. Also quite possibly something which would cause you to fail to get into a medical school in the first place (if the admissions tutors are doing their jobs anyway).
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Levi.-
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
The fact you choose to "[ignore] the ethical points" is, incidentally, another huge red flag on why you shouldn't do a medical degree or even attempt to go into the medical profession. Also quite possibly something which would cause you to fail to get into a medical school in the first place (if the admissions tutors are doing their jobs anyway).
I'm not too sure about that point bud; as I said I'm fortunately quite well versed in the whole med school application process I understand what I need to say and do when it comes to ethical understanding and reasoning; I just don't care much for them outside of a philosophical sense. I don't really care about behaving in an ethical manner but understanding the logic and consistency in moral and ethical reasoning and arguments is something I also find engaging which draws me more towards PPE.
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Levi.-
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(Original post by Muttley79)
This must be one of the craziness reasons for studying medicine that I've ever read. PLEASE don't waste tax payers money studying this degree unless you are going to enter the medical profession - it is a complete waste of time.
*craziest. I wasn't aware it was paid for by the taxpayer; care to elaborate please?
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by Levi.-)
I don't really care about behaving in an ethical manner
Then don't go into medicine, ever.
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Levi.-
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I respect your viewpoint; aside from the whole admissions tutors and ethics side; do you think I even have a chance at being shortlisted by my academics?
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Tonic Water
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Is this legit lol?
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cheerIeader
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yassssss do it hunny x
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Levi.-
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(Original post by Tonic Water)
Is this legit lol?
I am being genuine; I don't see why everyone I ask thinks of it being so radical that I may intend on doing medicine but never aspire to practise it as a job.
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Levi.-
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(Original post by cheerIeader)
yassssss do it hunny x
Will do my best, cheers x
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Tonic Water
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(Original post by Levi.-)
I am being genuine; I don't see why everyone I ask thinks of it being so radical that I may intend on doing medicine but never aspire to practise it as a job.
Why waste your time? Just do a piss easy degree and go into finance that way. If you actually manage to make it through the interviews process you're probably going to be in for a very lonely six years once people find out what your intentions are and your attitude to medicine in general shines through.
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Levi.-
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(Original post by Tonic Water)
Why waste your time? Just do a piss easy degree and go into finance that way. If you actually manage to make it through the interviews process you're probably going to be in for a very lonely six years once people find out what your intentions are and your attitude to medicine in general shines through.
Any suggestions for piss easy degrees than can help land me a job at Goldman?
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ecolier
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(Original post by Levi.-)
*craziest. I wasn't aware it was paid for by the taxpayer; care to elaborate please?
https://assets.publishing.service.go..._A.pdf#page=22

Each year the Government spends around £1.3bn on undergraduate medical education. It costs around £230,000 to put a UK or EU national through medical school. A proportion of the funding (around £65,000) is paid to students as loans which they are required to repay once they reach a certain level of earnings (currently £21,000). The remainder of the funding is provided to the student to support them through university (to contribute to their living costs and tuition), to cover the costs of providing their clinical placement and to cover the additional costs of tuition.

https://fullfact.org/health/cost-training-doctor/



The £230,000 estimate can be broken down into approximately:

  1. £163,000 paid in grants that the government won’t get back. These either go directly to students, to healthcare providers to support clinical placements, or to universities to reflect the higher costs of delivering medical education.
  2. Another £64,300 comes in student loans. These are similar to loans for other kinds of university courses, covering tuition and living costs.

Graduates have to repay their loans once they earn a certain amount, currently £21,000 for new students. That applies to all university graduates, whether or not they work for the NHS.

The government expects to get back at least 75-80% of tuition fee and maintenance loans across all subjects, as a pessimistic estimate.

Given that, we expect the final cost to “the taxpayer” is closer to £163,000 than £230,000.
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