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The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2009 Watch

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    TAELT 2010 is now out:
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=900865
    So please use that thread instead for all the current data.
    i.e. TAELT 2009 is already out of date in terms of the 2010 situation and is no longer maintained and so now is only of historical value.



    Welcome

    This is The Alternative Economics League Table 2009 thread. (TAELT for short).

    Firstly a 'warning' for applicants looking to use TAELT 2009 to make econ application decisions for the 2009/2010 cycle. The data here at the moment will need updating before then. This will reflect:
    i)Unis changing their typical offers. Although some unis have announced 2010 typical offers many have not. Further even when the official typical offers first appear on UCAS Course Search 2010 in the summer they may not be the same as the typical offers that admissions tutors use when Autumn comes round. So please please both check UCAS and uni websites and re-check TAELT before applying.
    ii)Information gained from Results Day. This will reflect both clearing and Adjustment. i.e. there may be movements between groups.

    So if you are a 2010 applicant please use TAELT 2009 and also please re-check the admissions situation before applying.

    TAELT attempts to rate each uni in terms of how hard it is to get offers from. It does this mainly by looking at:
    i)Typical Offers
    ii) UCAS Tariff points of actual econ students at each uni. (Not just the average (available in newspaper League Tables) but also the distribution in 20 point slices (available from unistats.com)

    This thread should be considered alongside:
    1) The Econ Uni guide which explains how to choose your 5.
    2) The Good Econ PS guide which explains how to write a good Econ PS (but you probably worked that out yourself).

    Finally the uni offers are NOT guaranteed to be correct. They were collected manually by myself from UCAS with some checking on uni websistes. So that is one source of errors. Secondly some unis change their policies mid cycle (e.g. so far this cycle changes by Exeter and SOAS have been updated). But there may be others. Thirdly unis are free to make whatever offers they want and hence can make non-typical offers. For more on uni choice check out the econ uni guide (link above and in my sig).


    So what does the Alternative Economics League table actually look like?


    Ridiculously Ridiculously Competitive (RRC) Courses
    a.k.a as the 5 unis that make up the Top 5


    AAA.0 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Not many more offers than Admissions. e.g. Cambridge approximately 200 offers and with a 90% Admission rate)
    1) Cambridge AAA M** E**p (2010 A*AA) (AAA on UCAS 2010) 528 Recent Offers:Admissions Ratios 2006 (193:177) 2007 (205:185)
    2) Oxford AAA M**p 512 3 Average intake 84; 10.1% applicantffer ratio Typical Intake 75 applicant/offer ratio 08/09 cycle 1166/73 (6.26%)
    3) LSE AAA M**A 510 Applications:Offers data

    AAA.1 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Approximately 600 offers for 180 places)
    4) UCL AAAe M**A (2010 A*AA M**A*) 459

    AAB.0 (340 Points) (Demand more than just AAB: require a 4th AS/A level)
    5) Warwick AABb/AAbbb/(AABB with FM)/AABC M** (2010 AAAb/AAAC/AAAB with FM M**B) 473 (Times 5th,Independent 4th,Guardian 5th)

    Ridiculously Competitive (RC) Courses
    a.k.a as the next 6 unis that make up the Top 10.

    AAA.2.1 (360 Points) (non-AAA offers (Durham AAB 2008, Notts AABB))
    6) Durham AAA M*b 462
    7) Nottingham AAA/AABB M**p E**p 453 40% Student excess in 2008 So look for 7 or 8 GCSE A*s. Summary stats

    AAB.1.0(340 Points)(Rejecting a lot of applicants with Top 5 offers!)(Bsc)
    8) Bristol AAA-ABB M**A E**p(2010 AAA-AAB) 458 H 44 places 906 applicants

    AAB.1.1(340 Points) (Not make ABB offers or accept ABB grades)(Bsc)
    9) Bath AAB (2010 AAA/AAB) M**A E**p 441 140 places 1600 applicants
    10) St Andrews AAB 430 09 application experiences

    BBB.0 (300 Points) (In practice many students need a lot more than BBB to get an offer)
    11) Edinburgh BBB M*p m#a (2010 M**B/M*A) 442 H H H(Times 22th,Independent 16th,Guardian 11th)

    Admission Statistics for all the RRC and RC unis:
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...YDWJ5-ycl6sDDw
    Attached Files
  1. File Type: xls TAELT 2009.xls (304.0 KB, 742 views)
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    Not Ridiculously Competitive (NRC) Courses

    These unis are relatively straightforward to get offers from. But:
    i)actually achieving the grades (esp AAA) may not be.
    ii)a lot of the data on TSR is probably for top students.
    iii)there are exceptions esp. if not doing A-level Maths.

    AAA.2.2 (360 Points) Exeter/SOAS AAA-ABB (But mainly AAA)
    12) Exeter (Ba) AAA-AAB m#a (But mainly AAA) M**p 397 --
    13) SOAS AAA-ABB (But mainly AAA)(2010 AAA m#c) 360 -- Confusing offer history

    AAB.2.1 (340 Points) (ABB offers (Southampton ABBb, Manchester Ba, York: accepted students with accepted York offers but only achieved grades of ABB, Lancaster 2008) Only need 2 A-levels(Lancaster))
    14) York (c) AAB M**p m#ap 448
    15) Southampton (c) AAB/ABBb/ABBC/AABD/AAAE M*c 399
    16) Lancaster X (c)AAB/AAbb/ABaa (2010 at least M* maybe M**) 394 Course becoming BSc soon

    AAB.2.2 (340 Points) (Ba Course. ABB in 2008(Newcastle) ABB offer for variant courses(Leeds))
    17) Leeds (Ba) AAB m#a 413 (Times 29th,Independent 24th,Guardian 29th)
    18) Newcastle (Ba) X (c)AAB m#b 394 (Times 32th,Independent 27th,Guardian 50th)


    ABB.1 (320 Points) (Up to 11% of students have less than 320 points: Glasgow 10%, Birmingham 6%, Manchester (Ba) 9%, Cardiff 9%, Lancaster 11%, Newcastle 10%)
    19) Glasgow (MA) (c) ABB (AAB on resit) 413
    20) Birmingham (c) ABB (2010 AAB m#a) 410 ++ (Times 7th,Independent 12th,Guardian 4th) 2008 Freshers Thread
    21) Manchester (Ba) ABB m#c [BSc AAB M**B E**p] 397 (Times 39th,Independent 36th,Guardian 30th) Offers/Places: (BA) BSc
    22) Cardiff (BScEcon) X ABB M**B (2010 AAB/ABB) 394 (Times 25th,Independent 23th,Guardian 43th)

    ABB.2 (320 Points) accept lower offers: RH BBB(with Maths) in 2008, Sussex (BBB), Loughbourgh (only 200 points from A-levels) Intermediate numbers of students below 320: Loughborough 17%, Sussex 25%, RH 26%
    23) Loughborough 2009 ABB/AAC/ABab/AAbc m#c (2010 AAB on UCAS Course Search) 374
    24) Sussex X ABB-BBB m#b (2010 same) 350
    25) Royal Holloway X (c) ABB with A-level Maths/AAB with AS Maths b/AAA m#a M**p E**p 348

    ABB.3 (320 Points) (More than 39% of students have less than 320 points: Essex 42%,UEA 40%, Leicester 49%, Reading 51%; Clearing 2007 and 2008 (all); % studnets BBC and below ( Essex 20% UEA 15%, Leicester 19%, Reading 26%)
    26) Essex X (Cc) 320 (AB (200 on UCAS Course Search)) m#c 337 ++ (very strong Research (RAE 2008 GPA 3rd, Power 6th) but 'hated' campus)
    27) East Anglia X (Cc) ABB-BBB m#b 327 (Times 11th,Independent 21th,Guardian 37th)
    28) Leicester (Ba) X (Cc) ABB m#b (BSc M**B) 325
    29) Reading (BSc) (Cc) ABB/AAC/ABBe/AACe/BBBc/ABCc/AADc/BBCa/ABDa/ACCa/AAEa M*c (BA m#b) (Times 35th,Independent 39th,Guardian 58th)

    BBB.1 (300 Points) (Up to 14% of students have less than 280 points), Sheffield (6%), Liverpool (10%), Queen Mary (9%), Queens Belfast (0%),City (14%)
    30) Sheffield X (c) Ba: BBB-BBbb (2010 Ba ABB) (2009/2010 Bsc:ABB-BBbb) (2010 ABB.2: 22% of students < 320 points) 369
    31) Liverpool X (c) BBB (2010 BBB with either Maths or Economics/ ABB without either Maths or Economics )M*b 361
    32) Queen Mary X (Cc) BBB (2010 AAB) M**B 351 (Times 34th,Independent 32th,Guardian 22ndl)
    33) Queen's Belfast X (c) BBB-BBCb m#b 347
    34) City X (c) BBB m#b 333

    BBB.2 (300 Points) (Atleast 51% of students below 280 points) (Surrey (54%), Kent (54%), Swansea (51%)
    35) Surrey X (c) uni website ABB/BBB E**p m#b ABB on UCAS Course Search 2010 286 average tariff suggests BBB more like it.
    36) Kent X (Cc) 300 (BB) (2010:320 BB 300 BB on UCAS Course Search 2010) m#b 286
    37) Swansea X (Cc) 300 [Ba 260] 278 (Times 35th,Independent 44th,Guardian 56th)
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    Courses regularly in Clearing and Extra
    These unis appear in clearing and Extra a lot:
    i) Extra 2009 All except Ulster
    ii) Clearing 2008 All except Strathclyde and Ulster
    iii) Clearing 2007 All

    BBC (280 Points)
    38) Strathclyde X (c) BBC m#b 385 (Times 29th,Independent 31th,Guardian 21st)
    39) Brunel X (Cc) BBC (2010 BBCc) M*c 299 (Times 47th,Independent 43th,Guardian 53th)
    40) Aberystwyth X (Cc) 280 m#c (min of 80 from A-levels) 279 (Times 55th,Independent 61th,Guardian 48th)

    BCC (260 Points)
    41) Heriot-Watt X (Cc) BCC 298
    42) Hull X (Cc) 260 290 (Times 25th,Independent 35th,Guardian 45th)
    43) Stirling X (Cc) BCC or BCcc 279
    44) Keele( +Finance see note 5) X (Cc) 260-300 (180) 276 Plan for Keele to stop teaching straight economics.
    45) UWE Bristol X (Cc) 240-300 242 (Times 57th,Independent 58th,Guardian 39th)
    46) Portsmouth X (Cc) BCC 240
    47) Coventry X (Cc) 260-320 m#c228 (Times 50th,Independent 52th,Guardian 19th)
    48) Hertfordshire X (Cc) 260 m#c (240 on UCAS Course Search 2010) 228
    49) Kingston X (Cc) 260 m#c 183 (Times 63th,Independent 63th,Guardian 60th)

    CCC.1 (240 Points) (<20% of students sub 240 points in 2005/6) Dundee (5%), Aberdeeen (15%), Ulster (15%)
    50) Dundee X (Cc) CCC 300
    51) Aberdeen X (Cc) CCC or aabb 292 (Times 33th,Independent 30th,Guardian 35th)
    52) Ulster (c) 240 (160) 287 ([COLOR="Green"]Times 40th/COLOR],Independent 46th,Guardian 27th)

    CCC.2 (240 Points) (Atleast 20% of students some 240 points) Manchester Met (50%), Salford (Unreported), Portsmouth (42%), Nottingham Trent (65%), Hertfordshire (66%), Bradford (Unreported)
    53) Manchester Met X (Cc) 240 (140) 274
    54) Salford X (Cc) 240-260 m#c(240) 273I
    55) Nottingham Trent X (Cc) CCC m#C 229 (Times 52th,Independent 50th,Guardian 20th)
    56) Bradford X (Cc) 240-260 (160) 207

    CCD (220 Points)
    57) Central Lancashire X (Cc) 260-220 m#c (280-220 on UCAS Course Search 2010) 311

    CDD (200 Points)
    58) London Met X (Cc) 200 m#c (140) (220 (160) on UCAS Course Search 2010)

    DDD (180 Points)
    59) Greenwich X (Cc) 180-220 m#c 209

    Notes
    1) deleted Aston as not on any table and no straight economics course there.
    2) deleted JMU as no straight economics course there.
    3) Salford average entry point from Independent table
    4) Central Lancashire average entry points from Guardian table
    5) Keele no longer offers straight economics and is trying to sack half it's economics department. This may adversely affect the educational experience if you study there.
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    What extra information is in the spreadsheet version?
    The excel spreadsheet contains the information in the printed version plus more details:
    A-level applications As above plus some website links, the total QAA score, positions for each unis from each of the three Newspaper Economics League Tables and some partial series (e.g. Further Maths , excluded subjects and applicants per place).
    Scottish Applications Similar but for Scottish applications
    IB Applications Similar but for IB applications. Lets you compare UCAS points of IB qualifications with the actual average tariff of successful applicants.

    Clearing 2008 Contains data on clearing used in the Economics Clearing 2008 thread). It shows which unis were in clearing for economics in 2007 and 2008. For 2008 it shows the different situations for UK/EU and International students. As well as tracking over time the UK clearing situation.

    Most of the information on tariff distribution is not displayed above. And I have used the information to form the separate AAA,AAB,BBB and CCC groups. So the Tariff sheets are really worth looking out if you want to understand the validity of the groupings. (And if you are planning to use the group info to make application decisions you should want to understand them!)
    Tariff Frequency05-06 What % of students came in each of 10 tariff categories
    Tariff Accumulation 05-06 Summation of the sheet 3 data so can see what % of students got below a certain tariff
    Tariff Frequency06-07 What % of students came in each of 10 tariff categories
    Tariff Accumulation 06-07 Summation of the sheet 3 data so can see what % of students got below a certain tariff
    Change in Tariff Accumulation How the situation changed between the 06/07 and 05/06 years.

    QAA Reports 2001 Assessment of economics departmental quality.
    Output Data on what job categories econ graduates from each uni end up in. See this post from the Econ applications FAQ for more details

    Which courses are selected?
    Nearly all courses are straight economics (L100 and a few L101s) except:
    Oxford it is Economics and Management
    Glasgow is L150.

    Why are some universities followed by an X?
    The X means that the uni is currently in Extra 2009 for Economics.
    Note that unis appear in Extra unless they have told UCAS they have enough applicants. So there may be some false positives when Extra has just opened.

    Why are some universities followed by (C) or (Cc) or (c)?
    (C) means that the uni was in clearing for straight economics in 2008 for UK/EU students
    (c) means that the uni was in clearing for economics (straight or variant) in 2007 for UK/EU students
    (Cc) means that the uni was in clearing for straight economics in 2008 and for economics in 2007 for UK/EU students

    What do the letter (and sometimes numbers) immediately after the university name mean?
    They give the typical offer for each uni for economics in 2009.Upper case is A-level, lower case is AS-level. Where the offer is in terms of points for both AS-levels and A-levels then the A-level requirement is in brackets. Where the university has more than one typical offer both are given.

    Where did you get the typical offers from?
    The typical Offers are all sourced from UCAS 2009 entries for each university.

    Can I get hold of the typical offers myself?
    Yes. Goto the UCAS website:
    select "search by subject".
    click on "e" and then select "economics" from the list.
    Then select "all Economics courses"
    Then you will get 4 pages of links to all the different economics courses for all the UK universities.
    The typical offer for each uni is available under "Economics"/"Entry Profiles"/"English, Welsh and Northern Irish Qualifications".

    What do the M**, M**A, M**B, M*,M*c M**p, M*p and m#c refer to?
    Thirdly I have encoded the requirements for Maths and Economics as follows:
    M** means A-level maths is mandatory
    M**A means A-level maths grade A is mandatory
    M**B means A-level maths grade B is mandatory
    M* means AS-level maths is mandatory
    M*c means AS-level maths grade c is mandatory
    M**p means A-level maths is preferred
    M*p means AS-level maths is preferred
    m#c means that GCSE Maths grade c is mandatory

    So if there is no M**p or M*P after a uni does that mean my application is not weakened if I do not have maths?
    No, I am afraid not. It just means that I have not found any reference where that uni states a preference for students who studied maths at school. And in many cases that is just because certain universities give virtually no info on what their entry requirements are.
    e.g. they don't even make explicit any preferences on A-levels e.g. that they prefer Economics to General Studies.
    My rule of thumb would be that for all competitive unis e.g. AAB.1.1+ that not having Maths A-level would be a significant disadvantage. (This may be less of an issue at the ..2 unis which are Ba e.g. AAA.2.2 SOAS). This is because econ at top unis is basically applied maths.

    What do the E**p and E*p refer to?
    E**p means A-level economics is preferred
    E*p means AS-level economics is preferred

    So if there is no E**p or E*P after a uni does that mean my application is not weakened if I do not have economics?
    As with maths it just means:
    1) that I have not found any reference where that uni states a preference for students who studied economics at school.
    2) that is just because certain universities give virtually no info on what their entry requirements are.
    3) my rule of thumb would be that for all competitive unis e.g. AAB.1.1+ that not having Economics A-level would be a significant disadvantage. Reasons for this include:
    i)hard to do a good econ PS when you have not studied economics at A-level.
    ii)doing A-level means you have got background knowledge and reassures unis that you are making an informed choice.
    iii)that lots and lots of econ students at top unis have A-level economics e.g. in 2007 80-90% of 1st year economics students at LSE, Warwick and UCL have A-level economics.

    What do the 3 digit numbers refer to?
    The 3 digit number is the average UCAS tariff score of 1st year undergraduates for 2006/7 from the Times table. UCAS have a table which gives the tariff for each qualification. The Times figure may well include some joint degrees. i.e. not just straight economics. Hence it may under-estimate the true level.

    How come a lot of the tariffs are above 360?
    Well the tariff includes points for all qualifications. So that is all AS-levels, any other UCAS point earning qualifications and all A-levels (even if that is >3) qualifications.
    And yes a lot of successful applicants do 4 A-levels plus a couple of AS-level kickers.

    A couple of the uni have ++ or -- after them. What does that mean?They are an indication of how IMO course quality compares with the TAELT competition rating.

    So Birmingham is +++ because whilst it is "easy" to get offers from it is a good course. I don't go as far as the newspapers (Times has it as 7th, Independent as 12th and the Gaurdian as 7th) but it is better than 21st i.e. Birmingham is an improving course, and I would have it as top 15.

    Exeter and SOAS are -- as I am not convinced their courses are as good as the AAB.2.1 courses in the group below them. i.e. Exeter is Ba and SOAS Economics shares a common 1st year with the Ba Economics and Development Studies course.

    A couple of the uni have H or HHH after them. What does that mean?
    H stands for holistic, and HHH stands for very very holistic.
    Bristol is H and Edinburgh is HHH.

    What does holistic mean?
    Holistic means considering the whole person. And hence selection has less weight on academics than you might expect.

    Why have you given the Newspaper ratings for some universities? And not others?
    Where there is a big difference between the TAELT league position and one or more of the newspaper positions, all three Newspaper position are given. The newspaper ratings are also given for the out of position entries of Warwick and Edinburgh.

    Where the Newspaper rating is 10 or more positions above TAELT, the newspaper rating is in green.
    Where the Newspaper rating is 10 or more positions below TAELT, the newspaper rating is in red.

    I don't give the newspaper rating where they are (all) close to the TAELT positions as then they don't add much value.

    How do the Newspaper ratings compare with the TAELT ratings?
    The big differences seem to be for cities with large populations. The following unis are significantly higher in TAELT than in the newspapers (with size ratings for English cities in brackets):
    Manchester 400,000 (7th largest)
    Leeds 450,000 (4th largest)
    Newcastle 190,00 (20th largest)
    Cardiff 320,000
    Reading 230,000 (17th largest)
    This suggests that students want to get into large unis with exciting nightlife (even when the economics department is not that academically strong). This would result in courses having lots of applicants and hence high typical offers and average entry tariffs. Such unis would appear highly on TAELT but not in the newspaper League tables.

    And it is important to understand that the typical offer and Entry Standards should reflect all good (and bad) qualities that a uni has. So it is no good thinking that a uni is high in TAELT and has a good nightlife and so moving it mentally further up the table (unlike you would with the newspaper tables). Finally this article suggests that students may be happier in smaller unis anyway

    How many of the points are just from A-levels?
    About half of the Warwick Economist have 3 A-levels and about half have 4 A-levels.

    Where does all the data come from?
    I collected all the data manually so I apologise in advance for any mistakes. Please let me know of any and I will attempt to fix them.

    What do the XXX./0/1/2/3./1/2 groups mean?
    The 1st part is the headline typical offer. The 2nd part compares results of successful students with that typical offer. The 3rd part is a measure of course quality
    XXX
    This means that unis in that group typically make offers of XXX. Where the university has more than one typical offer the upper is used. Where 3 offers are used the middle is given.

    /0/1/2/3
    Sometimes groups are small and not broken down further. But sometimes they are. When unis typically require a higher level of academic performance than XXX then the .0 suffix is used.When XXX is normally adequate .1 is used. When one grade lower (i.e. XXY) is often adequate then .2 is used. Similalrly when a 2 grades underperformance (i.e. XXZ) is often adequate then .3 is used.

    /1/2
    The Final 1/2 term is rarely used. It unlike the 1st 2 parts reflects course quality. It is when it is clear IMO that two unis despite having the same offer and acceptance behaviour have different quality levels.

    What order are the unis in?
    Originally the unis were sorted by typical offer and then by the average tariff of students actually doing the course. Where UCAS gave 2 offers (e.g. Exeter AAB-ABB) the higher (AAB) was used. Where UCAS gave 3 offers (e.g. Bristol AAA-ABB) the middle (AAB) was used.

    However this resulted in some very big groups. For example there are 10 AAB and 15 ABB unis . So I decided to break them into unis that were likely or unlikely to accept students with a lower grade. The concept being that two unis should be in different groups if it could be reasonable to have the higher group uni as a firm and the lower group uni as an insurance. There are 4 main reasons why a uni may be in the lower group:
    i) explicit policy of sometimes giving lower offers. e.g. Exeter and SOAS are AAB-ABB
    ii) accepts breadth of qualification as a substitute for high grades. e.g. Southampton accepts ABBb instead of AAB
    iii) has a high proportion of it's students with tariffs below the typical offer. For example, the lower group of BBB unis all have at least 20% of their students below 280 points.
    iv)Has a history of accepting lower grade students. So up to 2008 Durham's typical offer was AAB and this year York typical offer was AAB but accepted (at least some) ABB students.

    Finally I have now tried to put the groups into order of how competitive they are. This was because some unis (e.g. Warwick and Edinburgh) make offers that are clearly not at Market clearing levels. Hence I moved them up. Similarly IMO it is relatively easy to get offers from Exeter and SOAS (even though it is a very high offer!)hence they are moved down.

    What are the Ridiculously Ridiculously Competitive Courses , Ridiculously Competitive Courses and Not Ridiculously Competitive Courses labels about?
    Well there is a big difference in how hard it is to get offers:
    i) from the top 5 unis and all the rest
    ii) from the top 11 unis and all the rest
    These labels emphasis this.

    So the number in front of each uni represent your ordering?
    Yes:
    i) but within a group the ordering is determined just by one years average tariff. Hence unstable
    ii) lots of personal factors you should consider when making your decision (e.g. city/campus uni, how far it is from home) that no objective (by which I mean generic, non-applicant specific) table can encompass.
    iii) The Scottish unis have a lot of Highers candidates and hence higher tariffs and hence higher positions.
    iv) Expecting TAELT to distinguish between similar unis is unreasonable. e.g. LSE being 3rd does not mean it is worse than Cambridge or Oxford. Hell, oxford don't even teach straight economics. (I did consider when I first created TAELT not including Oxford at all as they don't teach straight econ. But I thought dropping Oxford would cause more confusion than it was worth).

    What abut the AAA.0 and AAA.1 groups?
    Given how many offers UCL make per place (10:3) I have split them off. Cambridge in 07/08 were 1.09:1. I don't have the same figures for Oxford or LSE but I very much expect them to be much close that 1 than 3. Hence the split.
    For more on this issue check out the 3rd post of the Econ Uni Guide.

    What about the AAB.0 and BBB.0 groups?
    Warwick (explicitly) and Edinburgh (implicitly) demand more from (all: Warwick, most: Edinburgh) students than just the 3 A-level grades given by the typical offer. So to show that they are in their own subgroups.
    In the "Which unis should I apply to for econ guide?" the background with Warwick and Edinburgh is discussed on question "Are better universities necessarily in higher groups?
    ": http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=658957

    Why is Bristol in the separate AAB.1.0 group?
    Well given:
    i) how many students with top 5 offers were rejected by Bristol this cycle (08/09)
    ii)that Bristol were AAA in 2007 and that they are the only uni out of all 61 to go for a lower offer during the last 2 years. Suggests Bristol would still clear at AAA.
    iii)that Bristol are making a number of AAA offers
    Hence it seemed sensible to reflect this by giving it a more competitive group than the other AAB.1.1 unis.

    Why are the AAB.0 and BBB.0 groups out of order?
    I have:
    1) moved the AAB.0 group (Warwick) up to above the AAA.2 group
    2) moved the BBB.o group (Edinburgh) up to above the AAB.2 group.

    This is an attempt to put unis into the order they would be if they were priced
    to market. Means that:
    1) unis in higher groups are more competitive.
    2)the table is no longer (totally) in Typical Offer
    order
    3) Table now reflects that there is a discontinuity at the AAB.2 group in terms of competitiveness.
    4) the table bends the rule of having firm and insurance unis in
    higher and lower groups. But:
    i)that rule still applies with .1 .2 unis
    ii)that rule still applies within each XXX group.
    iii)the rest of the group orderings are consistent with the "hardness" to get into concept.
    iv)Can justify move on basis that .0 unis are not priced to market.
    5) users no longer have to mentally move Warwick and Edinburgh to make sense of
    the table as it has been done physically

    And why are there AAB.1.1 and AAB.1.2 groups?
    The AAB.1 unis all make AAB typical offers and don't accept ABB.
    The difference in the AAB.1.1 and AAB.1.2 is in terms of the course quality. I have put Leeds in a lower group as:
    i)It is BA not BSc.
    ii)In terms of output only 30% of Leeds Graduates get Business, Finance and Stats jobs. Whilst with Warwick, Bristol and Bath the percentages are 73%, 59%, 45%
    iii)It only got a QAA mark of 22
    iv)It is ranked 29th, 24th and 29th for econ by The Times, The Independent and The Guardian

    What do the colours mean?
    The colour of the uni represents how the typical A-level offer (in points terms) compares with the average actual points from all qualifications (i.e. not just A-levels but also AS-levels and any other reported qualifications).
    average<typical red
    average<typical+30 purple (30 points being half an AS-level a grade)
    average>typical+60 blue (60 points being an AS-level a grade)
    average>typical+120 green(120 points being an A-level A grade)
    otherwise black

    But I hate the colours!
    If you don't like the colouring then copy and paste it into a TSR post (as opossed to quoting) and it will all go black.

    If you want to know what the concept behind the colouring is check out this post.

    Are there any versions of this table for earlier years?I was inspired in this undertaking by the 2007 Entry Requirements post produced by Werty675. So I fully acknowledge my debt there.

    Significant changes since then include :
    Down:
    -Bristol is AAB instead of AAA

    Up:
    +Durham is AAA instead of AAB
    ++SOAS is AAB instead of BBB
    +Leeds is AAB instead of ABB
    +Manchester is AAB instead of ABB
    + Lancaster AAB/AAbb/ABaa instead of ABB
    +Sussex is ABB instead of BBB
    +Essex is ABB instead of BBB
    +East Anglia is ABB instead of BBB
    +Reading is ABB instead of BBB
    +Kent is BBB instead of BBC
    +Aberystwyth is BBC instead of BCC
    +Heriot-Watt is BCC instead of CCC
    +Stirling is BCC instead of CCC

    (definite) changes since 2008:
    + Exeter AAA- ABB (But mainly AAA) instead of AAB
    + Durham AAA instead of AAB
    + SOAS AAA-ABB (But mainly AAA) instead of AAB-ABB
    + Newcastle AAB instead of ABB
    + Lancaster AAB/AAbb/ABaa instead of ABB

    Do you know which of these course went into clearing?
    There is this list for 2007. But as I understand it it includes all economics courses (e.g. even agricultural economics) and not just L100 straight economics, so it can be a bit misleading.

    See this thread for 2008 clearing Economics data
    I managed this one so it does record:
    i) the difference between straight and non-straight economics.
    ii) the difference between UK/EU and International applications.

    Great. I now have a better idea how competitive each uni is. But how do I select which 5 unis to go for?
    Well in order to avoid the twin perils of both over and under applying check out the companion thread that is The Econ Uni Guide.
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    Good job, as always, Paul :yy:
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    (Original post by Mustard-man)
    Good job, as always, Paul :yy:
    Yes, I also like it.

    Adding in the Tariff points shows the kind of applicants who are getting the offers.
    e.g. Edinburgh BBB used to send out one message
    Now Edinburgh BBB M*p 442 sends out another.
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    Nottingham has an entry tariff of 480 now. The data in the league table is old.

    http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/planning/profiles/

    Scroll down and click on Economics.
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    Extremely useful, thanks for that.
    Though i found that when i went to the Bristol open day, they said that they want 3 A's for their Economics course despite all printed information suggesting AAA-ABB so i assume it's fair to say that those universities higher up in the list will prefer you to have 3 A's.
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    (Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
    Nottingham has an entry tariff of 480 now. The data in the league table is old.

    http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/planning/profiles/

    Scroll down and click on Economics.
    Thanks for that.
    Yes the Notts 2007/8 figure is 480 and their 2006/7 figure is 464 not 453. I guess that is down to (at least) 2 factors:
    i)which courses are included in the figures. e.g. do you include economic joint degrees
    ii)Which students you include. e.g. do you include mature students.

    Could attempt to replace Times fiigures with departmental figures. But then we would no longer have all unis assessed on the same basis. So I am not sure I want to go down that route.

    Anyway I have added a health warning about this issue to the table.
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    What is the figure on the Warwick website then for Economics?
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    (Original post by Mutiny!)
    Extremely useful, thanks for that.
    Though i found that when i went to the Bristol open day, they said that they want 3 A's for their Economics course despite all printed information suggesting AAA-ABB so i assume it's fair to say that those universities higher up in the list will prefer you to have 3 A's.
    Yes I did expect comment on my Bristol ranking.And I am not anti-Bristol e.g. that was where I was born and worked for 30 years. (not that I saying that you are saying I am, I am just anticpiating some negative reaction.)

    Secondly the question of what grades they would like and what offers they make are not the same. Not want to be obtuse but all unis would like all straight A students. Question is what kind of offer strategy they employ. e.g. maybe Bristol make AAB students they think will get AAA offers from top 5 unis. I don't know. But in 2007/8 they certainly did make AAB offers. My anecdotal observation would be that AAB was a common Bristol offer this year.

    Thirdly from the average tariff at Bristol of 458 points that suggests a lot of AAAA (=480 point) students to me.
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    (Original post by prospectivEEconomist)
    What is the figure on the Warwick website then for Economics?
    I am not sure the Warwick economics website gives that or any other information about undergraduates.

    But I have an old self-review document from 2005/6 that looks at the sep 2005 intake. It says that for straight economics the average is 497 while for the joint subjects the average is about 460. This is consistent with the 2006/7 group average being in between at 473.

    So we might as a rule of thumb expect straight economics average tariffs at the top end of the table to be 10-20 points (an AS grade or an A-level grade respectively) higher than those given above.
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    I have updated the Bristol entry to be economics preferred:

    http://www.bristol.ac.uk/efm/prospec...ions-faqs.html
    What subjects must I study at A-level?
    "For degree programmes with 'Economics' in the title, it is also an advantage to be offering Economics at A-level since this demonstrates an interest in and commitment to that subject. Similar conclusions may be drawn for our joint schools (for example, studying History will be an advantage for a candidate applying for a place on our Economics and History programme)."
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    I am thinking of adding in the IB (International Baccalaureate) requirements for each uni.
    Anything else I should add in whilst re-reading the UCAS subject guides?
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    (Original post by Paulwhy)
    I am thinking of adding in the IB (International Baccalaureate) requirements for each uni.
    Anything else I should add in whilst re-reading the UCAS subject guides?
    The IB would be a good idea. Knowing which universities would require HL Maths as opposed to SL Maths might be important.
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    (Original post by Wizardtb)
    The IB would be a good idea. Knowing which universities would require HL Maths as opposed to SL Maths might be important.
    Here is the IB version.
    The OP comments still apply in general.
    I have insert the IB typical offer between the English offer and the typical tariff.

    uni 2009 UCAS IB IB maths Entry Standards Maths A required Economics
    Times ** indicates a maths requirement to A2
    Oxford is Econ+Mangement average UCAS tariff score * indicates a maths at AS
    ** is A-level
    * is AS-level
    M is Maths 2006/07
    E is economics
    p means prefered (else mandatory)
    total points (A-level points)
    AAA
    Cambridge AAA M** E**p Acceptable on its own & combined with other qualifications 528 ** **preferred
    Oxford # AAA M**p 38-40 These give an indication of the range of offers likely to be made to successful candidates. Achievement of these grades does not guarantee a place as admissions for all courses are competitive. 512 ** preferred
    LSE AAA M** 38 7 6 6 required. Grade 7 in Mathematics required. 510 **A.
    Durham AAA M* 38 462 *b
    UCL AAAe M**A 38 Grades 6,6,6 at Higher level required including Mathematics. 459 **A.
    Nottingham (or AABB) AAA-AABB M**pE**p 38 453 ** preferred ** preferred Grade A preferred in fourth AS level

    AAB
    Warwick (+b in fourth AS) AABb/Aabbb/(AABB with FM) M** 38 6 points required from Mathematics at higher level 473 **B
    Bristol AAA-ABB M** 34-37 overall with 6 6 6 at higher level including 6 in higher level Mathematics or 7 in standard level Mathematics 458 **
    York AAB M**p 36 6 points required in each Higher level subject Only one from Economics and Business Studies is acceptable, not both. 448 **preferred
    Bath AAB M**E**p 38 7 6 6 at higher level including Mathematics and preferably either Economics or Business & Economics Points total excludes bonus points 441 ** ** preferred (or bus)
    St Andrews AAB 37 A science or Mathematics at Higher Level. For non native English speakers 6 points in English in the IB or IELTS 6.5 or TOEFL 237 - 250 required 430
    Leeds AAB 33 16 points at higher level, 5 in Economics or Business & Management (if taken), 5 in English and 5 in Mathematics 413
    Southampton (or ABBb) AAB M*c 35 17 points required at higher level. 5 points required from Mathematical Methods at standard level. 399 *c At least one analytical subject (for example: Mathematics, a science, Economics or Geography)
    Exeter AAB- ABB M**p 30-31 Mathematics preferred. Award of the Diploma at the appropriate level to include at least two Higher level subjects at grade 4 or above. 397 ** preferred
    Manchester (BSc) AAB M** 35 6 6 5 at higher level including a social science 397 **B ** preferred
    SOAS AAB-ABB 37 6 6 6 at Higher Level 360

    ABB (320 Points)
    Glasgow ABB 30 413
    Birmingham ABB 34 410
    Manchester (Ba) ABB 34 34 points overall. 6,6,5 at Higher Level. No lower than 5 in any subject. 397
    Cardiff ABB M** 33 5 points each required from English and Mathematics at standard level 394 **B
    Lancaster ABB 30 16 points from best three HL courses. 394
    Newcastle ABB 34 5 points required from Mathematics or Mathematical studies at standard level if not offered at higher level. 394
    Loughborough 320 (200) 34 374
    Sussex ABB-BBB 32-34 points overall Diploma required 350
    Royal Holloway ABB (or BBB/ABC inc. maths) 32-35 5 points from Mathematics at higher/standard level respectively. 348
    Essex 320 (200) 30 Mathematics required at subsidiary level 337
    East Anglia ABB-BBB 31 327
    Leicester ABB 32 Diploma required 325
    Reading 320 - 340 (100) 6 6 6 at higher level including Mathematics 320

    BBB (300 Points)
    Edinburgh BBB M*p 34 555 required at Higher Level. If Maths at HL is not offered then SL Mathematics at grade 5 or SL Math Studies at grade 6 required. 442 *Strongly preferred
    Sheffield BBB-BBbb 32 369
    Liverpool BBB 32 361
    Queen Mary 300 M* 34 6 points in Mathematics at standard level. However, higher level is preferred. 351 *b
    Queen's Belfast BBB-BBCb 32 6 6 5 required at higher level 347
    City BBB 30 333
    Surrey BBB 30 dSpecific subjects required. 286
    Kent 300 (BB) 33 dwith 15 at higher level including English HL A1/A2/B at 4/5/5 or English SL A1/A2/n at 5/6/6 PLUS maths at 4 (Maths studies at 5) 286
    Swansea 300 280 UCAS tariff points 278

    BBC (280 Points)
    Strathclyde BBC 32 English and Mathematics. No subject below 5. 385
    Aberystwyth 280 (80) 27 279

    BCC (260 Points)
    Heriot-Watt BCC 26 298
    Hull 260 acceptable 290
    Stirling BCC or BCcc 5 4 4 at higher level and 4 4 4 at standard level Diploma required 279
    Keele #+Finance 260-300 (180) 276
    Coventry 260-320 _ 228
    Kingston 260 30 5 points from English and 4 points from Mathematics 183

    CCC (240 Points)
    Dundee CCC 29 15 points required at higher level 300
    Aberdeen CCC or aabb 28 14 points required at higher level English at a minimum of Standard level required. 292
    Ulster 240 (160) 24 12 points at higher level 287
    Manchester Met 240 (140) 28 274
    Salford 240-260 28 273I
    Portsmouth 240 (2 A-levels) 26 15 points at higher level 240
    Nottingham Trent 240 (AA) 24 IB Diploma must be achieved (24 points minimum) Where the IB diploma was not achieved, achieved points cannot be taken into account in combination with other qualifications. 229
    Hertfordshire 240 (200 if 2 A-levels) 228
    Bradford 240-260 (160) 28 207

    CCD (220 Points)
    Central Lancashire 260-220 (220) 28 311
    UWE Bristol 200 - 260 24-28 242

    CDD (200 Points)
    London Met 200 (140) 28 To include at least 15 in Higher and a minimum of 4 points in English and mathematics.
    Liverpool JMU 200 28 5 points required from relevant subject 251

    DDD (180 Points)
    Greenwich 180 24 209




    Notes
    1) deleted aston as not any table and no straight economics course there.
    2)Salford avergae entry point from Independent table
    3)Central Lancashire points from Gaurdian
    Attached Files
  2. File Type: xls Economics offerrs IB.xls (40.0 KB, 156 views)
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    Hey paul, could you highlight which you think is the best in each tariff point boundary in terms of reputation/job prospects?

    Obviously the ones that have AAA offers don't really need that, but in terms of the AAB/ABB uni's.
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    Warwick>Bristol>Bath>York>Soton IMO
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    (Original post by Amm0)
    Hey paul, could you highlight which you think is the best in each tariff point boundary in terms of reputation/job prospects?

    Obviously the ones that have AAA offers don't really need that, but in terms of the AAB/ABB uni's.
    Nooooooooooooo
    I am not going to get drawn into any kind of debate. Here I am avoiding matters of opinion and instead just trying to give the facts about typical offers and personal characteristics of past students.

    But I will say that both York and Southamption were in clearing 2007 and Extra 2008. Which must say something about how hard it is to get offers from them. 2 remarks:
    i)Some unis are in EXTRA only for students paying international fees
    i)Some unis are in Clearing not for straight economics but for economics with another subject.
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    I have added in Brunel
 
 
 
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