Dan95321
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Hello, I have looked on the NHS website and the base salary of a neurosurgeon is around £100,000 per year! How much over time do they work and how much more money do they get for this? How many do private and NHS? What about specialised neurosurgeons who do brain surgery? Thanks you very much.

Pls do not reply with don’t do it for the money I just wondering if I will ever be able to pay of medical school and university fees.
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ecolier
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(Original post by Dan95321)
Hello, I have looked on the NHS website and the base salary of a neurosurgeon is around £100,000 per year! How much over time do they work and how much more money do they get for this? How many do private and NHS? What about specialised neurosurgeons who do brain surgery? Thanks you very much.

Pls do not reply with don’t do it for the money I just wondering if I will ever be able to pay of medical school and university fees.
Why is this thread in Friends, Family and Work and not Medicine?

Anyway, if you work solely in the NHS it will take you 14 years after being a consultant to be above £100,000 (before on-call supplement). Because the youngest you could be a consultant is 32 years old (and you wouldn't - for neurosurgery). The thoeretical youngest you can be on this will be when you're 46 years old. Obviously you'd do on-calls, so could reach this figure earlier than that.

The hours are fairly horrendous, and there are many out of hours on-calls. The consultants get their registrars to do a lot of the prep work; so opening the skull and accessing the region is probably done by the juniors. The consultants do the important bits, or they supervise.

I would say most neurosurgerons have a private clinic, but it depends on the region. Obviously the figures are unlikely to be reliable or in the public domain.

I can, however, tell you that last year (2018) the competition ratio to enter Neurosurgery ST1 training after FY2 was 4.47 to 1; which wasn't too bad (relatively speaking).

Oh and one more thing, statistics of private consultants' salary (in the UK anyway) is notoriously hard to collect - so it is unlikely you'd have a nice list like the NHS ones*.

*i.e. first year consultants start on £79,860; then £82,361 for second year consultants etc. etc.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ecolier)
Why is this thread in Friends, Family and Work and not Medicine?

Anyway, if you work solely in the NHS it will take you 19 years after being a consultant to be above £100,000 (before on-call supplement). Because the youngest you could be a consultant is 32 years old (and you wouldn't - for neurosurgery). The thoeretical youngest you can be on this will be when you're 51 years old. Obviously you'd do on-calls, so could reach this figure earlier than that.

The hours are fairly horrendous, and there are many out of hours on-calls. The consultants get their registrars to do a lot of the prep work; so opening the skull and accessing the region is probably done by the juniors. The consultants do the important bits, or they supervise.

I would say most neurosurgerons have a private clinic, but it depends on the region. Obviously the figures are unlikely to be reliable or in the public domain.

I can, however, tell you that last year (2018) the competition ratio to enter Neurosurgery ST1 training after FY2 was 4.47 to 1; which wasn't too bad (relatively speaking).
That's a really interesting post, Ecolier. I didn't know neuro had horrid hours. Is this because you can't predict a TBI/IS or necessarily 'schedule' one for surgery?
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ecolier
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(Original post by Reality Check)
That's a really interesting post, Ecolier. I didn't know neuro had horrid hours. Is this because you can't predict a TBI/IS or necessarily 'schedule' one for surgery?
Yes, I have also edited my post because the 1% or whatever pathetic increase has brought the ~£99000 (after 14 years of being a cons) to just over £101000.

Neurosurgery has horrible hours because of several reasons:
(1) head / spinal trauma occur virtually any time; but potentially more at night time - think assaults / accidents
(2) most specialty with hands-on procedures will have a fairly hectic on-call schedule (think cardiology - even though they are physicians because they do interventional work i.e. for heart attacks, they are on-call and called out often); there are exceptions e.g. urology, dermatology
(3) neurosurgery is a niche specialty, with one centre covering hundreds of miles and several large towns / cities potentially (e.g. Leicester and Derby - and indeed the whole of the East Midlands is covered by Nottingham; most of West Yorkshire is covered by Leeds; most of South Yorkshire covered by Sheffield etc.) So they have to expect lots of calls.

There are probably other reasons too, but these are the few off the top of my head. I'll consult my knowledgeable friend itsbrainsurgery and come back to you if she has anything more to add
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ecolier)
Yes, I have also edited my post because the 1% or whatever pathetic increase has brought the ~£99000 (after 14 years of being a cons) to just over £101000.

Neurosurgery has horrible hours because of several reasons:
(1) head / spinal trauma occur virtually any time; but potentially more at night time - think assaults / accidents
(2) most specialty with hands-on procedures will have a fairly hectic on-call schedule (think cardiology - even though they are physicians because they do interventional work i.e. for heart attacks, they are on-call and called out often); there are exceptions e.g. urology, dermatology
(3) neurosurgery is a niche specialty, with one centre covering hundreds of miles and several large towns / cities potentially (e.g. Leicester is covered by Nottingham; most of West Yorkshire is covered by Leeds; most of South Yorkshire covered by Sheffield etc.) So they have to expect lots of calls

There are probably other reasons too, but these are the few off the top of my head. I'll consult my knowledgeable friend itsbrainsurgery and come back to you if she has anything more to add
PRSOM.

This money thing got me thinking. 30 years-ish of intense, full-on training to be the very best in your field. The reward: a base £100,000. Yes it's not shabby, but it's not Banker-style rewards either. And bankers don't save lives. Those people who whine on about senior doctors being 'paid too much' really are talking out of their årses. You should be trebling that salary really.
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ecolier
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(Original post by Reality Check)
PRSOM.

This money thing got me thinking. 30 years-ish of intense, full-on training to be the very best in your field. The reward: a base £100,000. Yes it's not shabby, but it's not Banker-style rewards either. And bankers don't save lives. Those people who whine on about senior doctors being 'paid too much' really are talking out of their årses. You should be trebling that salary really.
That's neurosurgery though.

I am on the other side - our specialty don't do (that much) nights and we are paid the same (well on the NHS anyway) :laugh:
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ecolier)
That's neurosurgery though.

I am on the other side - our specialty don't do (that much) nights and we are paid the same (well on the NHS anyway) :laugh:
Along those lines, which speciality do you think has the vilest hours? The worst work-life balance.
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Chief Wiggum
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The base NHS salary would be lower than that.

Very old data on private incomes here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...43/table/tbl3/
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ecolier
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Along those lines, which speciality do you think has the vilest hours? The worst work-life balance.
There are plenty - A&E, anaesthetics and virtually any medical specialties which do acute medical on-calls.

However it is the intensity that's probably going to be the key. GPs may work 9-5 (in people's minds! Actual working hours are more like 8-6:30) but every minute of their presence in the practice is filled with either (1) seeing patients (2) doing paperwork (3) answer phone calls etc. etc. It's never ending.

Whereas on the other hand, some specialties may have long hours (e.g. ENT) but it's rare that they get called out - hence the trainees can sleep (albeit on hospital premises) at night*! :rofl:

* Technically this shouldn't happen.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
The base NHS salary would be lower than that.

Very old data on private incomes here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...43/table/tbl3/
Look at that private income for plastics!
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ecolier)
There are plenty - A&E, anaesthetics and virtually any medical specialties which do acute medical on-calls.

However it is the intensity that's probably going to be the key. GPs may work 9-5 (in people's minds! Actual working hours are more like 8-6:30) but every minute of their presence in the practice is filled with either (1) seeing patients (2) doing paperwork (3) answer phone calls etc. etc. It's never ending.

Whereas on the other hand, some specialties may have long hours (e.g. ENT) but it's rare that they get called out - hence the trainees can sleep (albeit on hospital premises) at night*! :rofl:

* Technically this shouldn't happen.
again, PRSOM. Things that you'd never find out from a prospectus!
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ecolier
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(Original post by Reality Check)
again, PRSOM. Things that you'd never find out from a prospectus!
Indeed, even work experience may not tell you that unless you end up doing it in about 10 different specialties!
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Hm
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JamesManc
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Don't forget 40% of that is paid in tax
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yeah naturally they will be getting paid a ridiculous amount, most likely more than 100k. but take into account how complex and challenging their job is, how many lives they are saving and yes how many hours they are working

it most definitely isn't a 9-5 job. your standard junior doctors works whole days and many times go without sleep. so naturally a surgeon and neurosurgeon will be working longer. everyday they do overtime, I can't be specific in how many hours all I know is that working overtime is the complete norm for someone working in medicine. so you have to be willing to sacrifice sleep... and seeing your family every day.

naturally private will pay much more. can only relate to one story and one story only and this was off someones uncle who used to be a surgeon and then went private and was getting paid close to half a million at his job. this however was at least 10 or more years ago plus i don't know what time of surgeon he was.
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*what type of surgeon he was...
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salimyasin10
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Don't forget 40% of that is paid in tax
wow and i actually want to be a neurosurgeon
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GANFYD
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(Original post by JamesManc)
Don't forget 40% of that is paid in tax
As a GP, first off I pay 28.5% of my income in pension, then tax and NI is taken off, meaning I will end up with just over a third of my earned income in my pocket.......And despite what the likes of the Daily Fail tell you, I do not start at £250K!! Out of that, until this year I have had to pay £9K a year for indemnity insurance, £400 for the GMC to tell me everything they believe I am doing wrong and slightly more than this if I want the BMA to collaborate with them. That is before I start on Royal College membership (>£500) and course fees to enable me to re-validate to keep paying all these people......
Medicine is not a career to consider if your income v. work intensity is amongst the most important considerations for you
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